jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I just went back from the city's photo museum that is exposing some photos (original prints, 30x45cm or alike) by Salgado. I already knew the prints, but this time I went to look at them searching for technical details. Thre is detail in the shadows, contrast is normal and highlights are almost never white (just light gray). Grain is also unusually fine for TX (supposedly his main film). The sky holds lots of details (clouds, tones), and the general tone leans towards black. Am I right in supposing the negs are developed to what ZS define as N-1 development? Thanks for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_hull Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Jorge: You aren't here in Chicago are you? We have a Salgado exhibit here that I have yet to see. What are the chances that his images appear fine-grained because they are thin negatives that allowed the images to be printed darkly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I've read various discussions of Salgado's "look" around the web but have never seen any specific mention of the technique employed in film processing and printing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Andrew No, I'm some 5000 miles away...Brazil. Yes, that's one of the clues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Lex I have not found any, also. That's why I'm trying to 'reverse engineer' it (-: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_boeckeler Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Try "Salgado technique" in the search function of photo.net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew_stanton2 Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 I'm pretty sure he uses Tri-x in Rodinal. EI and dilution I am not sure of. From my recent experience new tri-x rated at around ei 200 and processed to moderate contrast in rodinal 1:50 produces very nice results. You may want to try this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 8, 2003 Author Share Posted August 8, 2003 Thanks, Matthew. Nice clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted August 8, 2003 Share Posted August 8, 2003 Jorge, I seem to recall a discussion about Salgado on the Cafe Ilfopro forum: http://www.ilford.com/cgi/Ilfopro/forums.pl?forum=2 Say hi to David Carper if you drop by. Haven't heard from him in these parts for a while. Wish I could offer some tips of my own but it's so hard to interpret what film, processing and printing techniques went into a photograph based on a little jpeg, never having seen an original of his work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Well, I just got back from searching the Cafe Ilfopro forum. Lots of opinions, ranging from "He uses Tri-X in ****" to "He uses T-Max 3200 in ****." I don't think anybody knows for sure but Salgado and his assistant, if he has one. Kinda unlikely that he would use just one product and nothing else for every situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_miele Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Salgado's film developement... I can't say, but Salgado use the Philippe Bregand lab (IMAGINOIR) in Paris c.f. <i>Les grands maîtres du tirage</i>, Dominique Gaessler, CONTREJOUR 1987. The lab has a film dev department, but I have no technical datas.<br> "Les développements des films noir & blanc sont réalisés manuellement en cuves avec spires ou tringles, dans des révélateurs fabriqués par IMAGINOIR"<br> <br> with dev made by IMAGINOIR.... but no formulas !<br> <br> Imaginoir is probably the not the only lab Salgado use.<br> <br> <a href="www.imaginoir.fr">IMAGINOIR</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I have heard it said, or seen it written, that he uses Rodinal but I don't know what film stock he uses. I saw his exhibition at the Barbican, London, some months back and Tri-X springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 Thanks, guys/merci, Pascal - Film: That's the easy part: Kodak TX or TMAX (TMY?); see the banner and after <enter> the text in: http://pdn-pix.com/legends/legends10/ (I suppose this to be mostly true; the whole site is worth looking at. Some photos are contrastier than the originals I've seen; monitor, etc) - Paper: Matte or semi-matte (hard to say, it was framed in glass), but for sure not glossy - And, as I said, looking at the photos the negs looks lightly developed (but then people at IMAGINOIR maybe much better than I will ever be...) Now, I consider him a master of photojournalism. Let's keep in mind he had a PhD in economics when, at about the age of 40, he decided to change careers; he could have looked other ways (good economists are highly paid in this country). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 And Lex, at least in the photos I've seen (just 15), there was not TMZ(easy to spot the grain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanmeeks Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 According to recent interviews in Camera Arts magazine and B&W magazine, he uses Tri-X and Tmax3200, souped in Rodinal. His rig is three Leica R6s with 28mm, 35mm, and a 60mm lenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_terlecki Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Many of Salgado's negs are not well exposed and need a heck of a lot of darkroom manipulation. At the recent Salgado exhibition in London it was obvious that a tremendous amount of effort had been put into the printing to get decent results. I remember reading that his film is developed by inspection and that many of his prints are bleached where necessary to render the desired effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanskavinsky Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Just another cat among the pigeons... He (allegedly) uses a yellow/green filter. Explains the skies and possibly the under exposure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james___ Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 I wonder why people have such a hard time making good negs, and then from there, good prints that hold detail in the shadows and proper highlights? It's not rocket science folks. Test for your proper film speed using what film you are going to test, and then your proper printing times for that film. If you do the tests you will come up with prints that are just as good as Salgado's, Guarduno's, Sexton's, or any other famous photographer. You don't have to be a zonie to get good prints. There are no secrets. It's basic photo 101. Do the tests, learn from this wonderful site what the attributes of each material is, and use it properly. It's easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 Ok, so here we have some more bits: - Lots of darkroom manipulation - that goes against lightly developed film; on the other hand, they are not grainy, but this could be also low grade (contrastwise) paper. - He (possibly) uses filters - this fits in the above to darken skies. The first conclusion would be he doesn't care (much) about exposure / development (except sharpness - Rodinal) as long as the final prints have the black leaning tones he desires (to transmit drama). Very much HCB... After all, he studied and lives in France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_miele Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 One way to have an excellent print from a "standard" neg... Use a good printer: a man who print 8H/day (minimum) 5days/week 47weeks/year (5 weeks of hollydays in France !) for 20 or 30 years. If you want (and pay !) you can go with him in the darkroom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 James, if only it were so easy. In an ideal world getting excellent results in available light handheld photography would never involve underexposing and overdeveloping film. Alas, it doesn't work out that way. That's why we diehard push processors work so hard at refining our techniques. Granted, we're trying to make silk purses from sows' ears. But I make the best damned pig ear purses I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 Pascal Any idea for how long I would have to clean his lab to pay for one day of this gentleman's services? (-: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pascal_miele Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 Jorge, prices are on the website... for your lab cleaning work: minimum legal is 7,19 Euros/hour (legal duration is 139h a month). You must add the tax (19,6%) to the print price and substract Social security (+/- 25%) from your pay ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_megargee Posted August 9, 2003 Share Posted August 9, 2003 The little I do know about Salgado's technique is that he exposes his film as is necessary for the subject based upon the shutter speed needed. For example if he finds himself in a darkly lit situation and is shooting 3200 ISO film but needs a 1/125 sec to halt action. If the reading he is getting is telling him that the exposure at 3200 should be wide open at 1/30 sec, he will "push" the film to get to the needed 1/125 sec. And then lets the lab deal with the necessary corrections in development and printing. His prints are a result of (as has been mentioned) working with an exceptional and knowledgable printer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted August 9, 2003 Author Share Posted August 9, 2003 UMMMM... Add taxes, subtract social security - I've better improve my printiing skills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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