peter_svensson Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I just tried developing Tri-X in Rodinal for the first time, and I think I like the look, but I noticed that the shadows are kind of thin compared to other developers. Suitable EI seems to be 200 - 250, whereas I believe other developers can give at least 2/3 of a stop more speed. Is there a developer that gives a similar sharp-grained look, but with more shadow speed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eduardo_benavidez1 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Try FX-1, FX-2, Acutol and Beutler. Regards. Eduardo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Neofin Rot (red) might also be suitable. It's recommended for films faster than ISO 100, while Neofin Blau is recommended for ISO 100 and slower films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Most of the 'faster' developers are phenidone based, and if dilluted will have a good acutance. You may try also Microphen 1+3 or Xtol 1+2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimvanson Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I shoot Tri-X at 250-320 then process in Rodinal @ 1+100 for 20 minutes at 68 degrees...shadows look pretty good to me. At 1+100 Rodinal is going to act as a compensating developer helping to dig into the shadows. And the edge effects are great! Make sure your measuring your stock with something like a syringe. I use 3 mls of stock to 300 mls of water. Agfa used to publish a spec sheet saying 3 mls per roll was enough stock. <i>They have since increased that minimum</i>.<p>I found FX1 & FX2 SHARP! But for me that was at the expense of tonality. Mind you I only developed about a dozen rolls of various films with each developer...I may have needed some tweaking.<p>And finally Xtol at 1+3 is superb. Tonal, sharp, great shadow detail...but Kodak, the manufacturer, no longer recommends that ratio (my theory is because people were not using the minimum of 100mls of stock per roll when they used Xtol at 1+3).<p>Ah...so many good developers, so little time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim obrien Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 "They have since increased that minimum." They are lying. Rodinal works great at dilutions down to 1+200 which at 500 mls is only 2.5 ml/roll. No signs of developer depletion. I suspect a marketing/sales conspiracy here. tim in san jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge_oliveira2 Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Re Xtol: There is one trick I've seen more than once (I cannot get Xtol, so I'm just citing): Mix the 5 liter packet in 2,5 liters water. Dillute it twice more to get to the desired working strenght. There are people in the Leica User Group that have been using it below 100cc (some like 75cc) for a long time and report no problem. It seems to be somewhat dependent in water quality (if less is OK or not). Note: due to unavailability, I use one of the clones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimvanson Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 <p>"They have since increased that minimum."</I><p>I think that Agfa has changed their tune for two reasons;<P>First because people were not measuring stock properly and second (to agree with the above Xtol post reasoning) because of the quality of water used.<p>I live in an area that has great water. Thus 300mls for 120 or 35mm and 6 mls for a roll of 220 works great for me. Other areas that have water full of minerals (or Lord knows what) may need 5 mls per roll of 120 or 35mm and 10 mls per roll of 220.<p>And the question of less then 100 mls per roll for Xtol. Again two reasons. First off 100 mls works great for me so I feel if it ain't broken don't fix it. And second...everyone knows the laws of chemistry and physics do not apply to Leica users. I shoot Canon/Pentax so I have to follow the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0002a Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 "I suspect a marketing/sales conspiracy here." Yes, marketing people can do the math. What do you think would happen to your company if all its customers figured out a way to use only have half its products or services and get the same results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimvanson Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 It may be marketing as even I was hypnotized enough to say 300 mls instead of the correct measure of 3 mls of stock Rodinal per roll of 35mm & 120. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 What dilution are you using? I rate Tri-X at 160 ASA and dev in Rodinal 1:50, 20 C, 8 minutes. Four inversions in the first 30 seconds then one inversion every 30 seconds after that. I use condenser head enlargers - for diffuser head give it 9-9.5 minutes. And what frequency of agitation do you use? To get increased compensation I give 10-15 percent extra development time but reduce agitation to once per minute. This increases shadow densities without blocking up the highlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_svensson Posted October 14, 2003 Author Share Posted October 14, 2003 I've only done one roll so far - 1+50 at 22 C, 9 mins, 5 inversions per minute. The contrast was too low for my taste (I use a diffusion head), so I'm planning to do the next one at 11 mins. That would probably boost the shadows a tiny bit. I'm intrigued about the suggestion to do 1+100 instead, since I like compensation, but the extended development time is a bit off-putting. How does 24 C work at 1+100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 Peter, I've found Rodinal to be remarkably indifferent to dilution and temperature factors. In fact, the more dilute the solution and when used with stand development, the more forgiving Rodinal development is of other factors, including temperature and time. Keep in mind that I am basing my conclusions on subjective evaluations of how my negatives print and not on scientific testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_svensson Posted October 14, 2003 Author Share Posted October 14, 2003 Lex, I've heard that about Rodinal before, so I'm a little puzzled by the time-temperature charts included with bottle. They show pretty drastic changes in recommended time (like 30%) for 2C changes in temp. Jorge, that's interesting about the X-tol concentrate. I used X-tol in 1L packets a couple of years ago and was very fond of the results (seemed to give very good speed), but I haven't used it since I resumed film development this year because of the problem of mixing 5 liters at a time. I might try it again, but I think I'm after more defined grain this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tofu___ Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Since the topic is turning to slower alternatives, does anyone have information on these extreme dilutions of rodinal with stand development? as in how long? or any URLs to that effect? thanks for any info........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 As far as I can recall offhand, all of my experiments with stand processing in Rodinal have been confined to Tri-X. I'd recommend 2 hours in a 1:200 dilution as a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_scarpitti Posted October 18, 2003 Share Posted October 18, 2003 Yes. It's Acutol by Paterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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