Disclaimer for critics

[robert_fleming]

Dear PNet Managers and Moderators,<p>I've been away for few weeks,

but still I can see, reading some threads, that nothing has

fundamentaly changed in the rating/comment infinite debate. <p> Top

Photos quality remains more-less same level as before with quite a

similar high variance in quality (IMO); but new names appeared and I

think that is very positive. So now, even with help of friends, it is

hard to keep on the top pages now, it is a good news. <p> That said,

I would suggest to Brian, Bob and other PNet managers to place a

disclaimer in the front page regarding THE infinite debate.

<p>

Concerning rating: Some people here will NEVER understand why their

pictures received a 3 or a 2 and will make a long thread about it,

[whilst they never question why they ve been granted a 6 or a 7] or

why their average is far lower than another similar picture. There

are injustice, paranoid or self-assured people in the world, so in

PNet. In fact, except POWs, rating are generally quite meaningless

IMO, it's a question of chance: posting a picture at a right moment

where many people where connected and were looking at the requests'

pages, being yourself an active (so-knowed/and therefore visited)

member of the site in rating, commenting or posting, having an

efficient network of friend or ennemy,... I would personnally

consider that below 20-30 ratings, rating average value is quite

meaningless.

<p>

Comments: that is the 'sherry on the cake'. I think that everybody

here is dreaming of constructive comments done by pros or semi-pros.

It requires time rather than real ability IMO. But here again, some

are not ready for it, they will always argue about the ability of the

commentators, especially for those who dont post any pictures, whilst

some others wont accept the negative part of a comment.

<p>

That being said, I suggest an obvious disclaimer saying that

basically, people posting image here in public place have to be ready

to be rated and commented by others, if not, better to keep away. If

one person estimates, using rating or comment, that your picture is

bad, respect his/her opinion/taste, that is one view among others

about your post. And the best way to receive numerous (so more

valuable in average) ratings and comments is to be an ACTIVE member.

If abuse of language or obvious retaliation is observed, try first to

discuss it directly and privately by e-mail with the person, if no

success that way, report it, but dont pollute un-necessarily the site

with threads on specific issue. [A comment saying 'very bad picture'

or a '1' in rating are not necessarily an abuse as they are

authorized].<p>

My 2 cents

[sk_arts]

Robert-

 

Along those same lines I think that the term "critique" is misleading. If it were a critique, then feedback would be required, but it isn't.

 

I do not know what the alternative term should be, maybe something as simple as "rate photos" with a disclaimer as you mentioned above, but further pointing out that no one is required to leave feedback.

 

I do not know if you were talking about my post or not, but I was NOT upset about getting low scores, but rather that I could not learn from them. Education is something i have come to expect from photo.net, and if the critique forum cannot provide education through a proper critique then I do not want to be mislead into thinking that it is a critique when in fact it is not!

 

There may come a time, and that time may be now, that the critique portion has simply surcome to abuse and no longer lives up to the high standards which this site lives up to. It may be necissary at some point to remove feedback entirely so that it no longer becomes more a circus, in it's place a gallery of submitted images without ratings.

 

I do not know how POW works, but perhaps only PN Patrons can rate photographs for POW. To cut down some on the number of POW images a person must submit their image as a POW Request with a clearly defined theme. These ratings should be kept secret so that this compitition and heartache can be avoided.

 

Patrons have already proven to be objective, and already have proven to have some knowlege about the art of photography.

 

I really think that something should be done, I think the number of posts here indicates that many people are not happy with the way that the critique gallery is being run.

[robert_fleming]

Dear anno,

I was not addressing your post in particular, if so I would have put comment in it. It is more a general conclusion after months of observation and participitation in multiples threads along with some threads afficionados.... <p>

POW is working as any others pictures here.<p>You said <i>"Patrons have already proven to be objective, and already have proven to have some knowlege about the art of photography"</i>. I dont think so, Patrons have just proven they can pay 25USD per year to support this site, which is good, that is a fact but that is their only common point.

<p>

Many people complain about Critique gallery, but lets not forget that it is run by all of us basically under very simple rules. To get the maximum participation rules have to be simple, so are the rating rules (no feedback is necessary), to get the quality is everybody's problem in rating and commenting and be a good citizen of PNet...

[n_p]

I don't think there is much hope for any kind of improvement in the climate at photonet, while we can still easily find threads like <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/1370172"> this.</a>

[n_p]

I've just uploaded a symbolic <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/1707430"> image </a> and the instant feedback is great!

[robert_fleming]

rude, there are 2 interesting points in the thread you first mentionned. I see 2 kind of 'abuses' (although F words dont appear): a light one >>> people keep commenting and questionning on other people rating abilities instead of commenting the image itself, and a less light one >>> that photographer over-react to bad or simply less good comments.<p> such behavior should be more controlled by individuals for the benefit of the whole site. But it is like fighting terrorism or guerilla, you get wounded and people are fighting... human nature! Sometime it is good to not care, the best answer is no answer to such comment, to stop unfertile discussion. Then people cant keep talking alone.