Now I'm Thinking "Tripods"

[max_wall]

My recent post re: "Thinking about MF. . .", yielded many helpful

responses. Before I give any further consideration to MF, I am

going to experiment with my M6TTL, slower film, and a tripod.

I have searched the archives for information on tripods, but after

doing so I would request your time and experience once more to

aid me in my search for the "best" tripod I can obtain, given my

present and potential situation. I am looking for that tripod which

is of the highest build quality and is the most stable. I was going

to include in the requirements that it should be light enough for

travel. But, right or wrong, I have decided not to include portability

as a major requirement. The reason being that when I travel I

will

be using my Leica M and I want to go light. The tripod would be

used for special shots that would be planned and set up in

advance, i.e., sunrises/sunsets, landscapes, architecture, etc.. I

don't anticipate hiking/backpacking, etc., therefore, stability and

quality are more important than weight. I have been told that the

tripod should include a quick release. It should also be capable

of accomodating both a Leica M and any MF camera I might later

decide upon (probably a Hasselblad). Having never owned a

tripod, what other items in conjunction with it do I need? Cost is

not a consideration. Forum members are very knowledgeable

and genteel. These qualities are invaluable to those of us who

are less experienced. Again, I thank you.

[jay_.]

<<Cost is not a consideration>>

 

Gitzo 1200-series Mountaineer (carbon-fiber); Arca-Swiss B1 ballhead w. QR. Kirk Enterprises QR plates.

[charlesk]

I have recently been using a vintage Linhof Model 56.

<br>Aluminum, very lightweight. 2-section legs w/ lever locks and a 2-section post that mounts on a swivel head.

<br>The carbon Gitzos sound great, but, this is a beautiful little thing which looks great with older cameras.

[roger_michel]

if you are going to carry 6-12 pounds of bulky tripod, there is absolutely no reason to use the miniature format (i.e. 35mm). a 6x6 negative is 3.5 times larger, a 6x7 4.5 times larger, and a 6x9 (same aspect ratio) 6 times larger. the slight quality difference between leica and other lenses (if any) will be totally swamped by this vast difference in negative acreage. the leica (indeed the miniature format) was designed for quick action/candid photography when speed and ease of use were what mattered most. you are basically asking "what are the best tire chains for my ferrari so i can use it off road." for the project you have described, "shots that i set up in advance," you want a good spotmeter, AT LEAST a MF camera, a solid tripod, and a cable release. i personally would recommend that you use a system with ground glass focus. RF is not designed for critical composition IN ANY WAY. not only does it not show you the actual field of view the film sees, it also affords no oppurtunity whatsoever for guaging focus/depth of field. there are horses for courses, and the leica was not designed to be used as a tripod mounted still life/landscape camera. sure it can be so used, but you will not get the best results possible. why force a round peg into a square hole. get the right tool for the job. then again, there are some things you have to learn for yourself i suppose.

[Spearhead]

Like <i>every</i> equipment decision, there is no "best." There are ergonomic considerations and tradeoffs on features. For example, I find the above-mentioned Gitzo unpleasant to use. It has twist locks I can't stand and doesn't have a great low-level solution.<p>

 

I use Linhof tripods - they're not made any more, probably because they cost too much to make, but they suit <i>my</i> needs. Flip locks, built-in spikes, easy to clean, a great low-angle solution, built to last forever. But that doesn't mean you would like them, if you can find them. They don't come up used very often, at least not the recent channel-leg models.<p>

 

I also use a Linhof ballhead, but I'm not as enthusiastic about that, it's just a head and it works. <p>

 

Quick releases have the same issues - it depends on how comfortable you are with the fit. You need to test out the equipment and see what you like.

[chad_hahn]

My uncle has a carbon fiber tripod and he had problems with the glue holding the legs in place. I don't know if this has been fixed or having your legs fall off in the most inopurtune times and places is still a problems.

[hadji_singh]

What's a tripod?

[thomas_krantz3]

See my earlier posts on how to get the most out of Leica lenses (since we never use the full resolution power in hand held shots). I always use a tripod for landscapes and architecture work. The tripod should be HEAVY, which means, no aluminium or other flimsy construction. The best is the wooden ones with three extension legs, not that expensive, i.e. 250-300 USD but very heavy. Obviously you don't want to carry these around for city tours, but for formal portraits or landscapes they are the best. The Gitzo's are not bad at all, but too expensive for what you get. Carbon fibre is not more steady than other metalæ when it comes to vibration, etc.

 

Tripod mounted latest generation lenses, with Tech Pan developed in Perceptol 1+0 blown up to 40x50 or 50x60 cm really shows you the different between high and extremely-ultimately-totally-amazing resolving power. The almost invisible grain with this combination even with these size enlargements makes it look sooo smooth. The lower acutance you get with small grain film and perceptol 1+0 is no problem with large prints. I must agree with Putz that you cannot see any difference between medium format and high quality, correctly exposed and developed, tripod mounted, Leica photos. It is a craft however, and not for casual shooting like most of you seem to be into. Hand held with TriX there is not much difference between Leica and many other brands, except irrational emotions and of course build quality.

[rana_dayal]

It is a three legged parasite, with telescopic legs known to contain metals and polycarbonates (the newer morphed varieties even contain carbon fibre). It is known to infect photographers. After initially infecting the unsuspecting victim and sucking his wallet dry, the creature suddenly develops wobbly legs and a spastic neck so becomes unable to hold it's head steady. These symptoms cause a lot of anguish to the infected party who is then compelled to go out and reinfect himself with larger and heavier specimens, that upon successful transfer to the victim, develops the same wobbly symptoms. <p>Scientific studies of long term treatment for this disease have proven that prolonged treatment is expensive and generally unsuccessful. The only successful treatment that has been demonstrated is the "cold-turkey" approach, whereby the subject changes profession/hobby to more mundane things like basket weaving or extreme sports.

[charlesk]

<i>I must agree with Putz that you cannot see any difference between medium format and high quality, correctly exposed and developed, tripod mounted, Leica photos.</i>

<br>Yes... Leica is the only 35mm camera able to transcend the basic laws os physics, chemistry, and optics.

<br>Putz's comments often border on the delusional.

[thomas_krantz3]

Charles

 

I'm not saying that Leica is the only brand which can create high quality, high resolution, big enlargement prints. I'm only refering to the technique needed to get there. However, most of us do not take full advantage of the research and effort put into the design and perfection of new lenses. That's all. For hand held shots on my kids etc, I am happy using my Nikon FM2n with 50/1.8, not much difference from Summicron 50/2 on kodachrome 64, and it's takes beating as good as a Leica, but cost less...

[tom h.]

Perhaps you'd consider a monopod, Max? Unless you're

shooting down in the seconds (shutter speed) it can make a

significant difference and is much easier to carry.

 

Tom

[Robin Smith]

I don't like Gitzo leg twist locks myself although I have a Gitzo monopod. I use a medium sized non carbon-fibered Bogen/Manfrotto and it is very good and a bargain too. Kirk BH1 ballhead and their QR plates for all my cameras and I use the plates on my (Leica ball and socket head) table top tripod and monopod too. It is a good setup. The carbon fiber Manfrottos are not so nice as the Gitzos. But I have not found the weight of my alloy tripod excessive. It is important to get a tripod at least as tall as you are, by the way. I use it for MF and some 35mm shooting, but not all that much for 35mm. I use the table top tripod or monopod much more for 35mm.

[stuart d]

I'd second Robin's recommendation for a table-top tripod for 35mm usage. Sure, they don't have quick release, but they set up in a fraction of the time needed for a regular tripod. The Leica table-top tripod is pretty robust - much more so than its diminutive size would suggest. It might - and I stress might - handle the weight of a small MF camera.

[jay_.]

<<I must agree with Putz that you cannot see any difference between medium format and high quality, correctly exposed and developed, tripod mounted, Leica photos.

Yes... Leica is the only 35mm camera able to transcend the basic laws os physics, chemistry, and optics.

Putz's comments often border on the delusional.>>

 

I agree 100% with you Charles, and I am a user of both Hasselblad and Leica, tripods, cable-releases and all. I can see a clear and distinct image quality improvement in 5x5 proofs vs 4x6's from the Leica. Oh and BTW, regardless of anyone's personal opinions of his opinions, it's not "Putz" it's Puts. Rhymes with boots.

[wgpinc]

Hi Max,

Ah tripods. What a love/hate affair they are. A small relatively inexpensive and very usable setup I use is a Bogen 3001 with the 486RC2 ball head. Under $150, not much over 4 lbs. and easy to use. I also have a bigger Bogen with the Arca B1 ball head that doesn't go too far from the car. If money isn't too big an issue I highly recommend the Gitzo G1227 carbon fiber tripod with a Kirk Photo B-3 ball head - a little over $700 after you get a Kirk or ReallyRight Stuff quick release that matches your camera. Reasonably light weight and rock solid. For the Leica 35 you can probably go down one grade Gitzo to the G1127 and I really like the little inexpensive Bogen 486RC2 ball head for price, weight, capacity and usability. Good luck.

[fotografz]

Max, I use the same set up that Jay described. The Kirk quick

release allows changing film without removing the QR plate from

the M. I'm not sure if they make a smaller ball head than shown

here, but I use mine for other cameras also, so I needed a

bigger one.

 

I have not had any issues with the Gitzo legs or anything even

though my Gitzo is an older model without the hook on the

bottom of the center column (I made the one shown in the

picture) . I did have a center column come loose when an

assistant loosened an extented column and dropped a D1-X to

it's base. Epoxy fixed that forever.

 

As far as low work, Gitzo makes short center columns to swap

out with the long one so you can go very low.

 

Finally, I agree with the post that unless using a M on occassion

with a Tri-pod is what you are talking about, go with a MF

system. The M is for spontanious shooting but can occassionally

go on a T-pod with success.<div></div>

[jackflesher]

Max:

 

I too use the Gitzo as do Jay, Gill and Marc, but I chose the 1228 over the 1227 as the 1228 will easily fit in a carry-on suitcase with the head removed. I also use the Kirk BH-3 head on this pod.

 

Cheers,

[charlesk]

TK:

<br>No 35mm neg, blown up to 50x60cm is going to come close to results achieved by MF, regardless of the technical wizardry employed.

<br>To get high accutance, you've got to use thin-emulsion films, which means loss of density with enlargement and the need to use higher contrast paper if you want to keep the blacks true.

<br>In order to get somewhat similar depth of field control, the Leica photographer is going to be shooting at a much larger aperture, sacrificing his ability to use flash because of the higher shutter speeds required. No fill flash makes keeping a long greyscale even more difficult as the Leica cameraman searches for the "perfect" natural-lighting situation. Meanwhile, the MF shooter enjoys much greater flexibility with regard to film choice, DOF control, contrast control, and location choice.

[gerry_szarek]

Leitz "Tiltall" aluminum, heavy, rock solid. Of course no longer made as far as I know. Came in black paint (yes the my painted one has chips) and chrome (yes beautiful crome to match your crome bodies). These tripods were made in NJ, and in the early 80's cost about $150. Only issue, don't grab them in zero F weather with wet hands, you'll be very sorry.

 

Gerry

[leica_phil]

Always remember the difference between MF and 35 hinges on enlargment factor. 16x20 is 16x enlargment with 35mm, around 7x for 6x7. Both blown up 16x, the 35 shot will most likely be a little better (though a much smaller print) since most (generalization here) 35mm lens will out resolve most MF lenses.

 

cheers,

[dan_brown4]

Try the Gitzo before your buy. I don't like the legs twist-locks at

all. Much prefer the Bogen/Manfrotto leg levers. Also, as nice as

an Arca B-1 is, it's too big (too good?) for a Leica M. There are

lots of nice medium weight ball heads out there to choose from.

[james_.1]

I prefer the Gitzo twist locks compared to the clunky Bogen/Manfrotto locks. I have the Gitzo 1227, which has 3 section legs compared to the 1228's 4. I m ust say for exclusive Leica M use, the 1228 fits the bill perfectly- rock solid and folds up very compactly, and extends to a perfect height. For a head, I had an Arca-Swiss B1, but now have the more compact and light Kirk BH-3. I would recommend it as well. If you move into larger cameras, getting the Gitzo 1227 would probably be a good idea if you want just one tripod. But now that I read that you won't be hiking, the 1227 is your tripod, and actually lends itself well to hiking in addition.

[james_.1]

Oh yah and tripods aren't just for higher image quality- for blurred flowing water and night shots they can't be beat by the no-tripod-zealots.

[raymond_tai]

I have the proper RRS plate permanently on all my teles and bodies including the M's

(except when there is a Rapidwinder in place) to mate with a Gitzo 1228 and Arca

Swiss B1. I wouldn't change this setup for anything except maybe a newer model

Gitzo.