Zeiss Ikon Maximar 207/1 Help Please!

[stuart_pratt]

I mentioned to my Dad that I was thinking of getting a folder, and he produced this. With some Internet research I've found it to be a Zeiss Ikon Maximar (207/1), dating from about 1927. It has a Preminar 13.5cm f/4.5 lens, remarkably, in really good order and a KLIO shutter speeds from 1 sec to 100th with B and T. Sluggish half and 1 second, but 5th and 10th sound about right, so hoping those briefer than that are OK. It came with  what I assume is an after-market plate holder, made by Agfa, which fits perfectly. The case was very tatty and peeling on most of the edges so I've spent some time today gluing those back down,  giving it a general clean and lubing the rails. Unfortunately, looks like someone tried to clean the mirror of the reflecting viewfinder with a brillo pad, but focusing can be done on the ground glass. I thought it might be fun to try to use it, but need some help. I assume this used dry plates? The dimensions of the plate holder are 144mm x 94mm (5.6 x 3.7") and the actual aperture within it is about 87mm x 115mm (4.5 x3.4") (as is the aperture in the back of the camera). I can't find any plates measuring this size out there on the web, and from what I CAN find on the web tells me this was a 9 x 12 camera??  Are plates sold by their actual size or by the size of the image taken on them.

The ground glass has what looks like an amateur etching within it, with grid lines measuring about 89 x 64mm. the plate holder has a spring loaded catch which works fine, but a Dirty Great Hole (DGH) which wouldn't be conducive to great picture taking. I'm guessing there is something missing here, or it was for inserting a smaller film/plate format??

 

Any help anyone can give would be great, thanks.

[rodeo_joe1]

3 hours ago, stuart_pratt said:

I've found it to be a Zeiss Ikon Maximar (207/1), dating from about 1927

..... shutter speeds from 1 sec to 100th with B and T. Sluggish half and 1 second, but 5th and 10th sound about right, so hoping those briefer than that are OK

..... I assume this used dry plates?

Are plates sold by their actual size or by the size of the image taken on them

Taking those questions in no particular order. 

They'd be dry plates. Wet plates wouldn't be used for that size and style of camera, and the use of wet plates was almost completely obsolete by the start of the 20th century. 

Plates are sized by their overall, outside, dimensions.

It's always the slower speeds that are first to get 'tired' in old shutters. Sometimes they get back to almost accurate after a bit of use. The top speed will likely be a bit slow too, but then it probably never was that close to its marked speed.

There were many weird and wonderful designs and fittings of plate holder. However, what you have there appears to be a fairly standard slide-in plate-holder with a GG screen somehow fixed to the back of it. It also doesn't appear to place the GG in the correct plane where a plate would normally sit. So I suspect it's been made out of an Agfa viewing/focussing screen and a standard slide-in metal plate-holder. It doesn't look as if it was originally made for that camera. The 'DGH' appears to be intentional to enable the GG screen to be easily removed. 

Even if the screen does give accurate focus, you'll need a separate slide-in metal plate-holder for the plates or cut film. 

When cut-film started to take over from glass plates, cut film sheaths were produced that you could slide a sheet of film into, and then clip the film and sheath together into the old glass plate-holders. Such sheaths turn up occasionally, along with the metal plate-holders, but you have to be patient to find them. Especially in 9*12cm size. 

Edited March 12, 2023 by rodeo_joe1

[stuart_pratt]

Thanks Joe, very helpful. The GG screen is part of the pop out hood which is affixed to the back of the camera via the same slots that the plate holder is, rather than part of the plate holder. The GG has a DGC (dirty great crack) but so will I at 95 (ooer).

 

 

[stuart_pratt]

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by stuart_pratt

[stuart_pratt]

[Dustin McAmera]

I think the item in the first two pictures is a film-pack holder. Film packs haven't been made for ages. The slot in the end is where there would be a paper tab, which you would pull to advance to the next sheet of film in the pack. It would have looked a bit like Polaroid, except that the film would stay inside there somewhere.

If you try to find plate holders for your camera, be aware that there is more than one pattern of the flange where it mates to the camera. 9x12 film isn't that easily available; I have bought it from Fotoimpex in Berlin. They now have a minimum order value for the uk; thank David Cameron for that.

I have made three film sheaths for the Agfa. It was a lot of effort for not much return - but they work well enough.

I bought a scrap of steel sheet, and some brass sheet. I cut a piece of the steel to match the size of a piece of 9x12 film. Then I cut the brass to overlap that, with a small margin to fold round. This would make the sheath; the back is a full sheet, the size of a sheet of film; the front is just a lip on three sides, which holds the sheet of film. In the sheath, the sheet of film is accepted into the plate-holder as if it were a plate. There's a small error in the position of the fillm; the surface of a plate would be further forward by the thickness of the brass sheet.

Anyhow, I bent the brass round the steel quite easily; any steel tool and firm hand pressure will do. I trimmed it so there was no double-thickness at the corners (where the side and end pieces would overlap each other). When it was neat, I pulled the brass clear of the steel - this turned out to be the hardest job - separating them without damaging the brass sheath.

I didn't think there was room for paint. Instead, I darkened the brass with a product called bronze black; it's used by gun owners I think. The finished items wouldn't win any prizes, but they work.

These pages at Camera-wiki might help:

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Dark_slide

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Film_sheath

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Film_Pack

http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Maximar

Good luck!

 

Edited March 12, 2023 by Dustin McAmera

[stuart_pratt]

11 hours ago, Dustin McAmera said:

I think the item in the first two pictures is a film-pack holder. Film packs haven't been made for ages. The slot in the end is where there would be a paper tab, which you would pull to advance to the next sheet of film in the pack. It would have looked a bit like Polaroid, except that the film would stay inside there somewhere.

Thanks Dustin, that makes a lot on sense. I suppose given the age of the camera why would you use a single glass plate when film was readily available? Thanks for the links. I guess I have few options given it will be difficult to find film for it, at least in a format that it can accept. I think I could adapt it to hold a glass plate, so I might think about doing that. Cut down a larger one maybe. In the dark. Hmm, maybe not! Cut my own and do a wet plate collodion? Hmm, maybe not. Cut a sheet of 5 x 4 film and use that? Much better idea. Forget the whole idea? Hmmm, maybe!

[rodeo_joe1]

Never actually tried this, so take it with a large pinch of salt. It's just a "get you started" idea. 

How about a sheet of glass or perspex or similar, with a tacky surface to hold a sheet of film to it?

Double-sided tape might be too strong and crease the film during removal. It obviously needs a bit of experimentation. 

Also, there's not a lot of difference between 9x12cm and 5"x4". In fact some double-dark slides will accomodate either size. 

There's also Grafmatic backs that hold 6 sheets of film, and might be adaptable to the camera. However, you need a degree in puzzle-solving to work out how to operate the darn things. Even then the risk of a double exposure or total fogging of all 6 sheets is quite high! 

Edited March 13, 2023 by rodeo_joe1

[Dustin McAmera]

If the flange of the film-pack holder fits the camera, maybe you could use it to adapt a 120 roll-film back. You would still have the option of using full-size 9x12 film, if you get some holders: I have been lucky finding quarter-plate holders with Kodak sheaths in.

[stuart_pratt]

1 hour ago, rodeo_joe1 said:

Never actually tried this, so take it with a large pinch of salt. It's just a "get you started" idea. 

How about a sheet of glass or perspex or similar, with a tacky surface to hold a sheet of film to it?

Double-sided tape might be too strong and crease the film during removal. It obviously needs a bit of experimentation. 

Also, there's not a lot of difference between 9x12cm and 5"x4". In fact some double-dark slides will accomodate either size. 

There's also Grafmatic backs that hold 6 sheets of film, and might be adaptable to the camera. However, you need a degree in puzzle-solving to work out how to operate the darn things. Even then the risk of a double exposure or total fogging of all 6 sheets is quite high! 

I was thinking along similar lines. I'm sure I could rustle up some sort of 'pressure plate' to hold a cut sheet of 5 x 4 in place against the holder aperture using the springs in the back of the holder, and perhaps a very narrow 'box' of the same size as the 'plate holder' with a slot entrance, so the film can be cut in the dark : drop the film in, cut off the excess. Watch this space.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by stuart_pratt

[chuck_foreman1]

In search of adapting various things... I have an empty Polaroid film cassette. This has a light spring loaded plate in a aluminum housing which is roughly 9x13 . The front dimension are 13x8.7 (and is 17mm thick ) The front plate has a sping loaded inner plate image size of 10x7.5. The aluminum housing certainly isn't light tight. Back in the (polaroid) day the fim paper pack *17mm( sat in the back area, (maybe it was light tight when loaded) Anyway the paper tabs pull the film through the spring loaded plate, are exposed and of course pulled completely out after exposing. I mention this because they are plentiful and the aluminum housing might be otherwise adaptlable somehow...  I can [provide pics... if you're interesdted..

I'ver kept it around for just such reasons... but pack rats like me are sick!  I'll be happy to send it to you

 

[Dustin McAmera]

I may have overstated the hardness-to-get of 9x12 film. In the uk Silverprint and AG Photographic both list Fomapan 100 in that size, but have it as out of stock.

Ilford list FP4 as in stock (for supply direct from them at Ilfordphoto.com) but it isn't cheap: 47.85 uk pounds for 25 sheets. There's HP5 as well, for 52.80.

Fotoimpex has Fomapan 100, 200 and 400 listed as in stock, for between 35-40 euro for 50 sheets. Sadly no Adox sheet film at the moment. But the minimum order for the uk is currently 170 euro before shipping, and you may have to pay duty when you receive the parcel!

I have a box of Fomapan 10 in 4x5 inch. I am reminded that I was dismayed to find it doesn't have the little paper sheets to separate the sheets of film. Environmentally admirable maybe, but a false economy for me; makes it harder to load the film cleanly in a dark bag.

 

 

[john_shriver]

There's a possibility that the relatively common plate holder for the Kodak (Nagel) Recomar 33 will fit. Very nice holder, works with plates or film without needing film sheaths. If you're in metro Boston area, you can stop by and see if it fits.

 

[stuart_pratt]

On 3/14/2023 at 7:02 PM, john_shriver said:

There's a possibility that the relatively common plate holder for the Kodak (Nagel) Recomar 33 will fit. Very nice holder, works with plates or film without needing film sheaths. If you're in metro Boston area, you can stop by and see if it fits.

 

That’s kind, sadly, I’m in the UK.

[stuart_pratt]

So I eventually got round to a, well, it's a bodge, lets be honest. I decided I would just have to cut a sheet of 5 x 4 film and modify the holder to fit it. It's fine length ways because the holder is longer than 5" but needs a tad trimming off the top of the film because the holder is only about 3 3/4" high. I filled the ends with two thin strips of wood, painted matt black to make it the length of the film, and filled the DGH with a strip of black foam. Then I cut down a bit of 4 x 2 to about half an inch thick to make the 'pressure plate' which holds the film flat against the aperture (it was all I had in the shed!). In the darkroom, I held the sheet of film against the pressure plate so that three of the four sides aligned, leaving the excess of the film protruding beyond the top of the plate. Then I just cut off the excess bit of film and loaded it. Filled the two or three pinholes in the bellows with some roofing bitumen and took a single shot. It was a bit thin, but shows it all works 'properly' and I'm not sure I've ever had a neg with quite so much dust and scratches on!

 

[chuck_foreman1]

That's the trouble with larger formats.. dust and dirt are larger too... Anyway... seems like you took the bull by the horns and made something work!! Kudos!!

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by chuck_foreman1