Zone or not ?

[martin_froggatt]

I am fairly new to Black and White, although I have been a colour

photographer for over 25yrs. It is only now that I have a scanner

and computer that B&W has been a viable medium. I would like to know

what people think of the zone system, is it a good way of exposing

film when using 35mm and digital darkroom techniques ? I currently

try to expose for mid tones using my built in meter or by taking an

incident reading with my Sekonic meter. The results are fine, some

people shots have been dissapointing with blown facial features, but

my buildings and general scenes not too bad. I think they could be

better though and wonder if the zone system would improve my

photography, has it improved yours ?!

I ask before trying it as I don't wish to learn the techniques and

theory if it will be of no use to me. I have posted an image showing

a typical example of the results I currently get. Nikon FM2n/24mm

Nikkor/Ilford HP5/ID11.<div></div>

[m0002a]

The Zone system is used to control exposure and negative contrast. you seem to have a pretty good handle on exposure. If you have problems with negative contrast (to compensate for scene contrast, wither very low or very high) then the Zone System might be of some help, otherwise probably not.

[art_haykin]

In the simplist terms, the ZS is a method of controlling the contrast of the neg by using a spot meter to measure the brightness range of a scene then exposing and processing accordingly to place the values where you want them. Overexposing combined with underdeveloping will decrease contrast, and the opposite combination will increase it. The System is ideally suited to cut or sheet film, and the exposure and processing times have to be worked out by each shooter. Read Ansel Adams' book The Negative. A slight degree of control can be achieved by altering just the exposure or the processing times alone. To see how it looks, I suggest you run the classic Nine Negative Test.

[wieslaw1]

I think a distinction should be made whether you want to primarily use the traditional, wet photography & printing, or digital (including perhaps �wet� negatives with mainly photoshop adjustments). In the latter case your present knowledge of exposure, etc. should be quite sufficient.

 

In the former case, I suggest, read a good source about the ZS, study it and forget about. You will be making great prints yourself.

[d_poinsett]

Before VC paper, the Zone system was much more important since you wanted make sure the range of tonalities that wanted in the finished print for a particular scene could indeed be printed. By manipulating the exposure and development, you can control the way the subject brightness is represented on the negative and thus the print. Also, since each scene may have unique requirements, B&W sheet film is the real benefactor of the full Zone treatment.

 

However, even with 35 mm film, there is probably some value in knowing the basics particularly when you encounter scenes that are at the extremes in terms of subject brightness. In other words, scenes with really high contrast scenes (bright day, dark shadows) or low contrast (overcast day). Even if you never use the full methodology, it may help you understand the issues present (even for the digital darkroom practitioner) and possibly insure that your negatives contain all the tonal information that you need.

[douglas_howk]

Major benefit of Zone System is visulaization of subject irrespective of format. Would suggest Carson Graves "Zone system for 35mm photograpers".

[rayfc]

Art's comment about ZS's applicability to cut/sheet film should be noted. True, careful application of ZS can only be done in limited fashion with roll film. That said, the techniques are valid and can be used to increase the liklihood of a successful exposure when using B&W roll film. The trick though is that the subject matter on that entire roll should be of very similar lighting conditions.

 

As far as the technical details of film, exposure and processing, the Zone System is as fundamental to photography as Newton's Laws are to basic Physics. I recently got into large format and now that I'm getting more comfortable with it, I find that I bracket MUCH less. ZS takes the guess-work out of exposure. This is a real benefit with large format; especially when considering convenience and cost.

[rick_jones5]

Martin-the purpose of the zone system is to consistently produce negatives which result in prints of excellent quality while giving the photographer tools to interpret the subject as he chooses. As long as you are getting results that please you don't change a thing. If that's not the case then the zone system certainly can show you the error of your ways. But be prepared for some major changes in your working methods. Most zoners do not expose for mid tones or use incident meters but do develop their own film. But again, it's all about pleasing you.

[andy_piper2]

Martin: (much of this has been touched on already in some ways)

 

The full zone system depends on being able to develop each exposed image to match the contrast range of one specific subject in one particular lighting - which doesn't work very well if you have 36 diverse images on a roll of 35mm film. It really requires individual sheet films, or separate film backs (e.g. on a Hasselblad), or separate camera bodies in 35mm, so that you keep together the images requiring the normal or extended or reduced development.

 

BUT - you can still learn a lot from studying the Zone system, and even use some of the practical tests (such as determining your true film speed, or the base printing time for your enlarger and paper) - and even in the digital darkroom I've found understanding the 'sensitometric' science of the Zone system useful in getting, and keeping, things under control. Knowing the Zone system, even if you don't use it per se, can help you figure out WHY you're getting 'blown facial features' or other problems that crop up.

 

And, as mentioned, it may encourage you to study your subjects more carefully, and - in some specific situations - meter something other than the midtones if that's appropriate. For example, for faces, metering the face and opening up 1 stop should ensure that the skin (assuming causcasian skin, since darker skins are unlikely to blow out) is placed in the correct Zone (VI or six, or one stop lighter than a medium Zone V gray.) So long as you have your basic film speed and development procedures established.

[wieslaw1]

Take it easy Ray! Newton�s Law IS law. The Zone System is just a prescription.

[kevin gulstene]

If you are scanning your film with a good film scanner you have alot of flexibility. The zone system, in a nutshell, is used to manage the density of the highlights and shadows so that printing problems are minimised.

 

If you are scanning the film with a good scanner you do not need to modify your development times if the scene is between n-1 or n+1. Just make sure that you expose you film so that shadow detail is not lost in the toe of the film (not most modern films have short toes anyway) and let the highlights fall where they may. The scanner will certainly be able to see throught the highlights and render the detail.

 

If you are having problems with negative film highlight blocking up when scanned it is likely a fault with your scanning workflow (ie: where you set your white point).

 

So, with a good film scanner, change the zone system mantra to "Expose for the shadows and let the highlights fall where they may". Of couse you may have negatives that are unprintable in the darkroom by working this way.

 

My controverial (and correct) 2 cents

 

--

Kevin

[wieslaw1]

Kevin could you clarify please? It cannot be a �scene between n-1 OR n+1�. Do you mean between n-1 AND n+1? I don�t get it.

 

If so, it is equal to ZERO or middle gray, though I would not bet if it is an 18% gray standard?

 

Do you imply that there should be a different exposure/development procedure for B&W negatives intended for traditional treatment from those intended for digital treatment?

[kevin gulstene]

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. More specifically I suggest that you do not need to modify your development/exposure at all if you intend to scan the negatives. That suggestion applies to scenes where the brightness range may have led you to compensate by one (or perhaps two) stop. If the scene would traditionally warrant N-1, N, or N+1 development/expsoure you can use N development/expsoure without any of the problems you would run into if you were wet printing.

 

Expose for the shadows and it is irrelevant what density the highlights come in at.

[wieslaw1]

Never mind Kevin, I was just kidding.

[dan_disch]

Up until a year and a half ago when I converted my wet darkroom into the digital domain I applied the zone system to my photography fully. This is because I wanted to control overall scene contrast in my negatives in order to have a consistant contrast range in my negatives. This way during printing I did not have to worry about trying control contrast over a wide range but could concetrate on brightness. In the digital domain I no longer attemp to control the overall scene contrast in the negative, I just expose and develop for normal contrast. Then in the digital domain I have almost infinite control over image contrast and brightness and not only can I control overall contrast but I can control local contrast and brightness almost infinitely. I can expand or contract not only the whole image but I can do one zone or multiple zones or even multiple zones independently.

 

So to answer your question, yes, I think that studying sensitometry and the zone system improved my photography. However I think in the digital domain the zone system does not require such a broad application.