Unknown camera, 120 film, curtain shutter, Zeiss Jena Tessar lens, drop down prism. Possibly a prototype?

[David Deal]

Unknown camera, 120 film, curtain shutter, Zeiss Jena Tessar lens, drop down prism. Possibly a prototype? I have no idea what type of camera I have. It is by far the coolest camera I have ever put my hands on. To the person who can steer me in the right direction, or by any chance possesses knowledge about this camera will have my sincerest thanks. Please view all images. To get the camera into shooting position, the front bed drops down, then pulled out from the body, then the lens extends on a rail with a stop at the end. Once the lens and body are extended, a switch directly above the lens is moved from one side to the other, which moves the small prism in between the lens and film plane, and can be viewed (not very well) through the small viewfinder on the top of the body.

 

Edited February 13, 2023 by David Deal

[Dustin McAmera]

It's a new one to me! The lens serial number seems to be 1922-23 (http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Carl_Zeiss_serial_numbers ); I don't find anything like it in sources I have to hand.

Does the finder just give viewfinding, or focus as well?

 

[John Seaman]

1 hour ago, David Deal said:

drop down prism

Reminds me of the little drop down periscope of the 1950's UK Corfield Periflex. Never seen anything remotely like it though.

[David Deal]

1 hour ago, Dustin McAmera said:

It's a new one to me! The lens serial number seems to be 1922-23 (http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Carl_Zeiss_serial_numbers ); I don't find anything like it in sources I have to hand.

Does the finder just give viewfinding, or focus as well?

 

No focus, just a very small and imprecise framing of the image.

[rodeo_joe1]

On 2/13/2023 at 7:15 PM, David Deal said:

No focus, just a very small and imprecise framing of the image

There must be a small ground-glass or diffuse surface in the periscope, because the eye can't easily see an aerial image. Also a tiny 1 cm square area is useless as a viewfinder. 

Looks like a prototype, 'proof of concept' job. Neatly made though, especially the body space to accomodate the sideways swinging periscope. 

It might be worth searching early 1920s patents for a similar design concept to track down a potential maker. 

IMO it's well worth doing the research, because it might be an early Barnack experiment or something equally rare and important. The rigid telescoping lens box looks distinctly Leica-esqe. 

What's the provenance of the thing? Where did it come from and who previously owned it? If you can trace its history, you may well track down the maker. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by rodeo_joe1

[JDMvW]

The "Periscope" came to my mind too, but it doesn't have a completely "finished" look.

[Niels - NHSN]

Very interesting!

With a Zeiss lens, it unlikely to be related to Leitz, but if you don't have better places to ask, you may consider posing this as an OT question on the Leica Collectors and Historica forum. Many members have historica interests beyond Leica products.

[David Deal]

On 3/9/2023 at 9:39 AM, Niels - NHSN said:

Very interesting!

With a Zeiss lens, it unlikely to be related to Leitz, but if you don't have better places to ask, you may consider posing this as an OT question on the Leica Collectors and Historica forum. Many members have historica interests beyond Leica products.

Thank you very much. Your advice is very much appreciated. I will keep this string updated as I learn new information.

[David Deal]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:52 AM, rodeo_joe1 said:

There must be a small ground-glass or diffuse surface in the periscope, because the eye can't easily see an aerial image. Also a tiny 1 cm square area is useless as a viewfinder. 

Looks like a prototype, 'proof of concept' job. Neatly made though, especially the body space to accomodate the sideways swinging periscope. 

It might be worth searching early 1920s patents for a similar design concept to track down a potential maker. 

IMO it's well worth doing the research, because it might be an early Barnack experiment or something equally rare and important. The rigid telescoping lens box looks distinctly Leica-esqe. 

What's the provenance of the thing? Where did it come from and who previously owned it? If you can trace its history, you may well track down the maker. 

Thank you very much. Your advice is very much appreciated. I will keep this string updated as I learn new information.

[David Deal]

Thank you very much. Your advice is very much appreciated. I will keep this string updated as I learn new information.

[rodeo_joe1]

On 3/9/2023 at 2:39 PM, Niels - NHSN said:

With a Zeiss lens, it unlikely to be related to Leitz

Maybe not, but Leitz would hardly tool up for a one-off 90mm lens just to fit to a rollfilm prototype. 

Quote from Oskar Barnack's brief biog. on Wikipedia:

"Existing Leitz and competing Zeiss lenses were either too large for the camera or would not cover the 24x36 frame."

That sounds as if it was known that Barnack had no qualms about experimenting with other maker's lenses. And Leitz at the time (before the Ur-Leica) had no camera products on offer - certainly not in a rollfilm size.

[Niels - NHSN]

The Tessar depicted is from around 1922-23 a time where Leitz were busy developing the Null series, the prototype forerunner for the Leica I A.

At that time Leitz had not yet made a decision even to bring a camera to mass production, so I would be surprised if they would have a second medium format camera development track that we have not heard about.

It would certainly be a very valuable camera if that can be substantiated.