Z9 at 20 FPS

[ShunCheung]

Sandy Wool is a human-made lake in the Silicon Valley. The government plants fishes into the lake about twice a month to teach children fishing and for general recreational fishing, but of course the birds take full advantage of the situation. I believe they stock the lake with over 1000 fishes at a time, at 1 to 2 pounds each. They use a tanker truck with a wide hose to pour the fishes into the lake.

A few days ago I set up on lake shore and after an hour, this pelican caught a fish near me. I manage to quickly compose, and that entire process from catching to swallowing lasted 2 to 3 seconds. Here are 28 consecutive frames in the middle of the action. Personally, I wouldn't mind having 40, 50fps RAW so that I can get even more images to choose from, but deleting the rest will take even more time. (With firmware 3.0, the Z9 can already capture 60fps in large JPEG.)

I posted a couple of those I like to Nikon Wednesday: https://www.photo.net/forums/topic/537949-nikon-wednesday-2023-4

 

 

28 frames in the middle of the action. I have additional frames from before and after also.

 

First frame among the 28:

 

Last Frame among the 28:

[Dieter Schaefer]

22 minutes ago, ShunCheung said:

I wouldn't mind having 40, 50fps RAW

I'd consider that overkill. With a camera set to 10fps, I always managed to squeeze off single shots too; with 20fps, I can't seem to lift the finger fast enough and usually record some five images minimum.

What I wish Nikon would do is get the pre-release recording option going for RAW and not just JPEG. With it, you might have been able to get the images before the pelican picked up the fish.

[ilkka_nissila]

Do you really need the RAW format for fast action? When image quality was so-so in early digital cameras and there were relatively few pixels, I would take every bit of image quality I could get, but on 45 MP also the JPG is very good and because there are so many pixels, the dynamic range is also better than one would expect from JPGs. 

[mike_halliwell]

Recovering feather detail on very white birds can be one area where RAW still helps a bit.

I haven't tried the metering mode that prevents highlight clipping, whatever its called.

[ShunCheung]

In this particular setting, I prefer to have RAW with a white bird. And there are many pelicans scattered around the lake so that I cannot just focus on one. It just happened that one close to me suddenly got a fish. Actually there are usually cormorants (double crested, there are few Brandt's in the Silicon Valley also) in the lake. It is up to the cormorants to dive and get the fish from the bottom, and the pelicans would rush to the cormorant to take the fish. They would squeeze the neck of the cormorant to force them to spit out the fish. That is a very chaotic scene but very difficult to photograph. Therefore, pre-release doesn't apply there either.

However, the most challenging is still hummingbirds. I have shot 120 fps at 11MP. When the wings beat at maybe 60 times a second, that merely gives me 2 frames per beat. I can definitely use 120 fps, in RAW. However, to implement pre-release in RAW, you need a lot of expensive RAM inside the camera.

[mike_halliwell]

How does the 1/32000 shutter speed do for their wings?

[ShunCheung]

5 minutes ago, mike_halliwell said:

How does the 1/32000 shutter speed do for their wings?

Typically I don't have enough light for 1/32000 sec. Instead I use 1/1250, 1/1600, 1/2000 for hummingbirds. The moment I like most is when the wings are at the highest, up position. Hence extremely fast shutter speeds are not necessary, as there is a very brief pause from up and then down. 120 fps makes it much easier to catch that moment. And I delete a lot of images.

[mike_halliwell]

I guess animal AF sees that beady eye nicely?

I've only ever seen them in San Diego on nectar feeders. They do zip around somewhat!

They look so much nicer on wild flowers 😀

Edited January 26, 2023 by mike_halliwell

[Dieter Schaefer]

21 hours ago, ilkka_nissila said:

Do you really need the RAW format for fast action

Since many opportunities to shoot fast action arise and develop rather quickly, having the option to correct not ideal camera settings later in post can certainly be advantageous. It would also help if one wouldn't have to press a few buttons to get to the pre-release recording - this needs to be a one-button option.

 

9 hours ago, mike_halliwell said:

I haven't tried the metering mode that prevents highlight clipping, whatever its called

That's highlight-weighted metering. It tries to avoid blowing out highlights - which usually results in a more or less severely underexposed image. Could be useful if based on the RAW data rather than the JPEG image. In many lighting conditions I find the WYSIWYG EVF hard to see and interpret. Often it appears that an exposure correction is needed - but the RAW file turns out quite OK without it. Had some issues like that on my recent California trip with poor (aka contra) and harsh lighting. An optical DSLR viewfinder would have been a better choice some of the time. In other words. highlight-weighted metering will have you rely on lifting shadows in post while giving up at least one f-stop exposure due it not giving you the full highlight leeway of the RAW file.

 

I continue to be amazed by the Z9 AF performance (use Wide and 3D, both with and without subject detection; will include Auto soon). Equally baffled that it fails frustratingly under some circumstances. Certainly head and shoulders about what the D500 and D850 could deliver.

Edited January 26, 2023 by Dieter Schaefer

[Dieter Schaefer]

I followed this Snowy Egret on an almost 360 degree round trip over about 9 seconds acquiring some 160 images of which 10% were OOF (waves/surf behind the bird threw the AF off); this image is towards the end of that trip shortly before landing.

Not an action sequence like Shun's White Pelican's fish catching but nonetheless something I find valuable to be able to record at 20fps. Might even be a scenario were I wished for more than 20fps. 🤨

An Osprey fishing sequence followed by the osprey being chased by a seagull unfortunately happened a bit too far away to yield presentable images - but 20fps allows to follow the action nicely.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Dieter Schaefer

[ilkka_nissila]

I guess the way to manage single shots and fast bursts in reasonably controlled way is to set the default continuous shooting mode just slow enough that single shots can be obtained on demand most of the time, and then using a custom function button to override the lower speed and go to high fps. This isn't available on Nikon DSLRs but I believe the Z9 can be programmed in this way.

I was photographing at the European Figure Skating Championships today, and mostly had my D6 set to 9fps (CL). During the last pair's skate, I set 14 fps (CH) and quickly grew frustrated at the many unintentional duplicate or triplicate images. But almost at the end there was some fast movement. This is at 14 fps, 200/2 II, 1/1250s, f/2, ISO 200, three consecutive frames. In this case the middle shot is the best (IMO) and there is enough difference between the consecutive frames to justify the high fps rate. (And yes, wide open the D6 does shoot 14 fps even with this G-type lens.) However, I would have been very frustrated if I had had set the camera to 14 fps all through the event.

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by ilkka_nissila

[Dieter Schaefer]

10 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

I guess the way to manage single shots and fast bursts in reasonably controlled way is to set the default continuous shooting mode just slow enough that single shots can be obtained on demand most of the time, and then using a custom function button to override the lower speed and go to high fps.

For avian photography, I have no easily accessible function button to spare for this. Fn1 and Fn3 are to switch to 3D AF (my default currently is Wide AF Large; I will experiment with Auto); Fn2 is set to Custom AF area with 1x1 pixel (the advantage over single point is that the Custom AF is part of the Wide AF group and does track). Fn1 and Fn3 are set identical for landscape and portrait orientation. DISP is used to engage/disengage subject detection and the joystick is set to give me AF-ON with 3D AF.  AF-ON, of course, is set for Back-Button Focus. All other function buttons aren't easily reachable without taking the camera down.

 

26 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

n this case the middle shot is the best (IMO)

Sure is.

 

28 minutes ago, ilkka_nissila said:

and there is enough difference between the consecutive frames to justify the high fps rate

Especially with birds but also with people I don't mind having a short burst of similar images - had many instances were a single shot just caught the subject with their eyes closed or blinking.

[Mary Doo]

1 hour ago, ilkka_nissila said:

During the last pair's skate, I set 14 fps (CH) and quickly grew frustrated at the many unintentional duplicate or triplicate images. But almost at the end there was some fast movement. This is at 14 fps, 200/2 II, 1/1250s, f/2, ISO 200, three consecutive frames. In this case the middle shot is the best (IMO) and there is enough difference between the consecutive frames to justify the high fps rate. (And yes, wide open the D6 does shoot 14 fps even with this G-type lens.) However, I would have been very frustrated if I had had set the camera to 14 fps all through the event.

Dunno, more frames might have captured a more aesthetically flattering shot.  Technically OK though.  

[Mary Doo]

43 minutes ago, Mary Doo said:

Dunno, more frames might have captured a more aesthetically flattering shot.  Technically OK though. 

Ilkka, Apologies for my prior comment as it might come across as rude.  It does not mean to reflect on your photographic skills and knowledge, which are evidently excellent.  What I meant to say was that action shots are tough where artists performing their craft are involved, as the emphasis is on aesthetics.  Sorry! -- so more frames may help?  🙂

Edited January 27, 2023 by Mary Doo

[ilkka_nissila]

41 minutes ago, Mary Doo said:

Dunno, more frames might have captured a more aesthetically flattering shot.  Technically OK though.  

My experience is that when skaters are spinning fast, their faces get distorted (by the muscle effort but also the forces due to spinning and air resistance). This is why I usually place more emphasis on moments when the skaters are gliding rather than jumps and pirouettes. However, every once in a while I try to get shots of fast action. 

 

No need to apologize.

 

[Mary Doo]

1 hour ago, ilkka_nissila said:

My experience is that when skaters are spinning fast, their faces get distorted (by the muscle effort but also the forces due to spinning and air resistance). This is why I usually place more emphasis on moments when the skaters are gliding rather than jumps and pirouettes. However, every once in a while I try to get shots of fast action. 

 

No need to apologize.

 

Agree.  The facial expression is one thing but look at the placements of body parts such as the derriere, arms (one sticking under the man's armpit).  I do realize this is reality and that was the precious moment captured; the photographer has no control over the rapid actions and law of physics.  However, more frames coupled with planning and anticipation would help.  Just as wildlife photography - catching the action is surely a crucial step but other elements are essential as well.  Just saying  😉

[joseph_smith3]

On my Z9, I shoot RAW. For birds that are "moving" (in flight or doing something at a nest or perch) I try and use 10 or 12 frames per second. I have found at slower fps, the membrane over the eye can ruin a shot even if the bird is perched and not moving.    For hummingbirds, I prefer shutter speeds of 1/1000-1/1250 that shows some blurring of the wings but may freeze the wings in their drawn back position or full forward position.   

[mike_halliwell]

I'm always surprised how far a horses feet travel at 10fps in the D500. If you drop much below 1/2000, they blur out too.

The rider might be travelling in a fairly smooth, linear fashion but every bit of a horse is going in a different direction....🤣

I look forward to the cross-country season to try out the Z9's tracking and speed.