Which black ink does a digital photograph use, dye or pigment?

[PaulWhiting]

(and a related question, which forum should I be in? This one?)

 

I have just acquired a Canon iP8720 and enjoy the very satisfying black and white photos it produces. I know this printer has two black cartridges, one with a dye black and the other pigment. Which black ink does the printer use for text? One or the other or a blend? I hope the printer uses pigment black because of its longevity. My understanding is the printer uses pigment black for text.

 

Just for reference sake I have a history with pigment black used for, to be specific Paul Roark's 6 cartridge setup.

 

Looking forward to some discussion on this one!

Edited July 11, 2022 by PaulWhiting

[Robin Smith]

No idea, perhaps it uses dye for one paper type and pigment for another (glossy vs rag or similar)? Pigment inks can give rise to differential reflections or metamerism when used on glossy papers, so dyes may look better then. Is it not to be found in the Canon specs?

[kmac]

It could be that the two inks blend in proportions that can never spoil the effectiveness of the pigment black, but that's just a pure guess, I'm only imagining that there could be some compromises regarding costs and quality.

 

Epson, for instance, now have "Eco Tank" cartridge free printing, I've noticed in a subscription email I've received. The ink is supplied in bottles ... "Enough ink to do 14,000 pages", they say.

[PaulWhiting]

I appreciate both messages.

 

1) I'll need to check the Canon specs again, I may have missed something first time around

2) I've looked with envy at the "Eco Tank" ! I'm reluctant to mix the two myself unless I knew what I was doing but thank you for your suggestion.

[kmac]

2) I've looked with envy at the "Eco Tank" ! I'm reluctant to mix the two myself unless I knew what I was doing but thank you for your suggestion.

 

It wasn't really a suggestion, It was more or less pointing out that printer technology appears to be changing, or has already changed and I just haven't noticed. I haven't been keeping up with the latest printers, I'm still using an old Epson R2400 which has three black inks that blend ... and that printer is known for it's quality black & white printing. But you've got me thinking now whether my three blacks are all pigment inks, I haven't heard any different. I have a 3A print on the side of my fridge, it's been there eight years and except for splashes from the sink next to it, it's still like the day I printed it, even with sunlight beaming through the window.

 

Your Canon has a Gray, a Black, both dye inks apparently, and has one Black pigment ink so it's possibly it really is only for text. The first two, blending together, are perhaps only for images. The Gray helping to produce a reasonable range of tones. Contacting Canon would be your only option maybe, to learn more about the function of each ink.

[PaulWhiting]

I take your point, kmac. I've heard good things from Epson R2400 owners, even to this day.

 

As for the configuration of cartridges in my iP8720, you are spot on. Thanks for adding those carts to the conversation. What mystifies me is how the subject matter, ie text or image, weighs in: how does the printer know what it's looking at? My main interest is printing b/w photos... do I have any way of changing the tint of a photo? I'd prefer a pigment for its life expectancy.

[Robin Smith]

Pigment black may be darker, so could be used for pure black parts of the image, if there are any. I can't off hand imagine why text should need to be printed in pigment ink as no one really cares about maintaining the quality of text for 100 years (or do they?) I no longer have a pigment printer, so my bet is it is used depending on which paper you are using (glossy/semi-gloss.luster/matte). It is interesting that the specs and marketing blurb do not comment on this, but it also indicates they do not consider the use or non-use of the pigment black noteworthy of mention. Also the best Canon dyes inks (Chromalife 100+) have excellent fade resistance - it's not like it was 15+ years ago.

[kmac]

What mystifies me is how the subject matter, ie text or image, weighs in: how does the printer know what it's looking at?

 

There may be selections; "Text" or "Document", "Photo" displayed in the printing software. If there is, the printer will perhaps get the message which inks to use for which purpose.

 

My main interest is printing b/w photos... do I have any way of changing the tint of a photo? I'd prefer a pigment for its life expectancy.

 

You'll only get what the printer will give you after you've edited the image in your photo editor ... but to find out if the pigment black is being used for photos, check the ink level of the pigment black after you've done a few prints and see if the level has gone down. If it goes down, then the pigment black is getting onto your photo paper, being used for photos. If the level doesn't go down, then it's waiting till you get around to doing some text printing.

[kmac]

I can't off hand imagine why text should need to be printed in pigment ink as no one really cares about maintaining the quality of text for 100 years (or do they?)

 

Yes I'm sure long term quality really is a concern for some people. The caption text I add below photos, on the photo paper itself, I would like to last as long as the image. Or even text printed on the back of photos. Copies of important documents is another. I think there would be quite a few reasons.

 

The printing from expired dye inks of lesser quality, but still genuine, doesn't last long, only a matter of six months or so, the prints whether text or photos, go soft and blurry, I learned my lesson with those. It wasn't my Epson, it was a HP 3-in-1 ... that was on plain paper, but "Plain Paper" is in the software.

 

At the moment I'm using expired pigment ink in my Epson and the prints seem to be holding up, but I'm vigilant for fading and blurring. I leave 6x4s lying around everywhere, both color and B&w, exposed to light and normal shifts in temperatures plus mists of insect spray and whatever else. I'm giving them the torture test. The inks go back as far as 2010, some 2013-15. Before I insert them into the printer, I shake them slowly ten time longer than recommended for shaking new ones. Then the printer needs to be started every week and a test pattern printed and checked for blockages ... usually there's none, but leaving it longer is inviting trouble.

[Robin Smith]

Your travails remind me of why I gave up pigment for dyes about 10 years ago. Well of course text permanence is of importance to some people, but I suggest not all that many compared to those who worry about the image. Most large prints I see now sold by professional landscapers have the signature as part of the image rather than as a separate line beneath the print. The Canon Chromalife images last very well (100 years so they say) under glass or other protection, not sure without glass (I don't think this is known precisely as it is so dependent on conditions). I have some kicking around that are about 8 years old. Can't see any fading, but of course that relies on my memory of what they used to look like, so may not be accurate. If they do fade, I can easily just print another. If I was selling large numbers of prints I would probably feel obliged to use pigment inks, even if it was just so I could say that is what they are.