Supriyo Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Hi! First of all, let me tell you I am a real newbie, with a mere two months experience in photography. Please excuse me, if my question seems old and sounds...."come...on...not again". I want to photograph people engaged in their natural activities, undisturbed, unwared of the presence of camera. What's the general approach for this. If I go near a person and try to shoot his/her picture, will that be too rude? I know its not right to shoot somebody without his/her permission. But then, if I interrupt him and ask for permission, that would make him aware and destroy the whole point of shooting. Whats the general reaction of people towards sudden unprecedented photographing. Will they object or accost me? I have seen many of the photos here taken from real short distances where the person is bound to know whats happening. May be I am not worried about old persons sitting on a park bench, because they might not object. But, what about a beautiful lady with nice apparel walking by the door of a fashion store? I expect to get some advice from experienced people over here. Also any suggestions regarding the use of aperture, lens extra are welcome. For your info, I have two nikkors...28-80G and 50/f1.8 AF. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hal_bissinger Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Longer lens, shoot first and ask questions later. Whether you should get or need permission to photograph someone depends on where you are and what you intend to do with the image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_bailey Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 First off, I have to respectfully disagree with Hal regarding the use of longer lens. Telephoto work in the type of photography you're talking about tends to result in voyeuristic, portrait-esque images of isolated people out in public cut off from any relation to the world around them. Secondly, I'd urge you to please check out photographers who are famous for doing the type of work you're describing. Their photos should be able to give you a better idea of what kinds of shots you like or don't like. In the below list -- which is by no means complete -- you'll take note that NONE of these photogs really used anything past a normal (50mm) lens. - Walker Evans - Henri Cartier-Bresson - Helen Levitt - Robert Frank - Lee Friedlander - Garry Winogrand - W. Eugene Smith Next up, there's the issue of equipment. One school of thought says that it's the photographer that's paramount - not the camera. A second school notes that for the most part all of the above photographers -- with the exception of Evans -- used 35mm rangefinder cameras instead of SLRs. Why? The reasons are numerous, but there's an excellent discussion of it on this page: http://www.halfhill.com/cameras.html I don't mean to suggest that you should just up and ditch all your current gear, but I would advise against first studying the above photogs and then second trying your hand at this type of photography by limiting yourself to the 50mm Nikkor you listed above. It will force you to think more creatively, and hopefully take better pictures. If you think one 50mm lens is to limiting, remember that virturally every photo taken by Cartier-Bresson was done on a 50mm lens. So that's some disjointed initial thoughts to your query. The world of street photography is a very particular niche, but it can be very rewarding. I too am a newcomer, and have been practicing it for about six months now. If you're curious, feel free to check out my portfolio on photo.net as well (which is by no means brilliant) just to give yourself an idea about what you can do. All of the pictures I have up were taken with either a 35mm or 50mm lens, and all of them were done without asking the subjects' permission first. Best of luck with everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Your equipment is fine, it's just a photo.net thing to immediately assume that it's an equipment issue. A Nikon with a 50mm lens is more than adequate, thousands of photographers have been successful shooting portraits with the same equipment. The real issues with taking successful portraits lie elsewhere. <p> You need to decide why you want to photograph these people and go from there. If you understand your own motivation, it will be much easier to decide on an approach. It is possible to take fine shots of people by asking first, by not asking first, by shooting surreptitiously, by setting up shots, and probably other methods. It just depends on what you want to do. <p> I always assume when shooting without permission that I might get an angry response, and I have. You have to decide if you can run fast or if you expect to lose a few teeth someday. You can, however, shoot totally candid shots when you've asked permission to shoot. This is especially true if people are working. They don't pay much attention to you.<p> I do it all sorts of ways and generally find they all work at some specific time. You can see some examples <a href="http://www.spirer.com/">here.</a> Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_bailey Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 In responds to Jeff's comments, I'd just like to say I wasn't suggesting Supriyo should today go buy a whole new set of gear. At the same time, aside from the functional benefits of rangefinders, I've also found that people are FAR less likely to respond angirliy to a compact-style camera they don't see that often than they are to a bulky, oversized SLR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I've said it before, I'll say it again now, I'll probably say it 1000 more times - people react to people far more than to cameras. I shoot on the street often with a Mamiya 7, usually with a finder on top. It's bigger than most SLRs. The reactions are no different than what I get with a compact camera. It's how the photographer acts, not what they carry. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Nikon d100, 18-35mm lens, about 3 feet away... <br> <br> <br> <center> <img src="http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze4hbvk/hair/snapple.jpg"> </center> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grant_. Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 d100, 50mm lens, about 2 feet away... <br> <br> <br> <center> <img src="http://members.bellatlantic.net/~vze4hbvk/hair/014.jpg"> </center> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irving_thalberg Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Jeff -- of course people don't react to you with your Mayama. You might as well be carrying around a car transmission and pointing it at people. How many average Joe's in this country know what a Mayama looks like? People react to 35mm SLRs because 1) the lenses are huge in circumfrance 2) because it's the most recognizeable camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_bailey Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Jeff, Your Mamiya comment I think sort of proves my point. All I'm saying is that no matter how stealthy the photog, using the most commercially-recognizeable type of camera in America isn't going to help taking unsolicited candids. With a the top-mounted viewfinder, my guess is most people have no clue what you're doing at all. Or to put it another way, if it was all about physicality, I don't think the military would have much use for camouflage. Best, M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 I think Grant has proved my point. The D100 is very recognizable. The Mamiya looks like a tank. People always ask if I'm a professional. When you hold it up, people know it's a camera. They react to me, not the camera. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 <i>People react to 35mm SLRs because 1) the lenses are huge in circumfrance </i><p> This is very true of the Mamiya. Larger than most 35mm SLR lenses.<p> I've been doing this for a long time. Supriyo isn't going to benefit from using a specific camera. It's all in how you approach the subject. The wording of the question makes that very clear. Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Many times I've found a friendly smile works to your favor. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_bailey Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 Grant merely proved that he can take two obscenely close photos to say nothing of any negative encounters. Obviously some photographers have a more subtle demeanor than others, but do you honestly believe the camera makes NO difference? If that's the case, why have SO many traditionally street-based photogs chosen rangefinders long after the introduction and predominance of SLRs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen hazelton Posted March 6, 2003 Share Posted March 6, 2003 "I want to photograph people engaged in their natural activities, undisturbed, unwared of the presence of camera... if I interrupt him and ask for permission, that would make him aware and destroy the whole point of shooting." Not entirely true. If they are engaged in some on-going activity, ask, they'll be watching you for a bit, but then lose interest and continue with their activity like you weren't there. Another option- you are starting out on strangers- have you tried photographing your friends or relatives while they're doing whatever they do? Working, watching TV, photographing... Anyway, you have the possibilities of some good shots there, with no hassles to speak of. Just call your Uncle Ted the mechanic, and say, "Hey, I'm trying to take pictures of people while they work, mind if I do that with you?" and you're off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_marolf1 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I think the key to successful people photography is figuring out how to relate to other people. If you are not comfortable with how you approached your subject, it will show in your photographs. People photography is a very personal endeavor, and nobody here can tell you what is best for you. Don't waste time on photo.net, go out, experiment, and find out what you feel comfortable with. Start with environments you know well, try candids, try asking people. You'll learn much more from your own experience. And Jeff is right - the choice of camera doesn't matter a bit, and you have all the lenses you need. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike dixon Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 <i>Obviously some photographers have a more subtle demeanor than others, but do you honestly believe the camera makes NO difference?</i><P> People generally react to the photographer, not the camera. I've done candid shooting with Pentax 645s (a medium-format SLR with lenses much bigger than comparable 35mm glass), big Canon F1s, Leica Ms, and a few others. There didn't seem to be any corelation between the camera used and the people's behavior.<P> <i>If that's the case, why have SO many traditionally street-based photogs chosen rangefinders long after the introduction and redominance of SLRs?</i><P> Perhaps they like the way a certain kind of camera allows them to work. I appreciate the lack of shutter lag, easy focusing in dim light, fast glass, and stability for handheld shooting I get with Leicas--I'm not using them because they're invisible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas_sullivan Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I have been shooting people, street photography for lack of a better word, for 2 years now. I think I asked the same questions 2 years ago. I have to agree with Jeff, Mike, and grant...I have shot with a 35mm SLR, a 35mm RF, a 35mm P&S, a 2 1/4 TLR.....have used mostly 28mm and 35mm lenses on the 35mm cams, and a 65mm on the TLR. Some people see the cam, some don't, some hassle me for taking the picture, some "ham" it up......a few beautiful women even smile...so cool :) btw........................but it is me when it comes down to it. It is how I feel and portray myself when I'm shooting. If I feel like I belong there doing it, and it is the most natural thing to do, I've filled the frame with 3 or 4 people with a 28mm lens, and they loved it. And the only way to get that kind of confidence is to go out and shoot. Get harrassed, get yelled at, get smiled at, get posed shots when you don't even ask for them....get totally ignored, too. Use the equipment you have............the only advice I would give is the faster the lens, the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew_lee2 Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 These are some excellent responses. I can't add much more to what's already been said except to just get out there and practice. And practice some more. If you really want to get good at it - people photography - and if you want to have some level of comfort doing it, you need to shoot a lot. Gradually you will gain confidence as you get a better feel and understanding for what you're doing, for what works and doesn't work for you (both your shooting techniques and end results - only you can determine these things), and as you see that the good majority of people won't lash out against you for taking their picture. I'm still learning everyday myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yance_marti Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 The best advice? Try not to be annoying. Don't wander up to a stranger with a 28mm and get in their face. Don't take a picture of strangers in embarassing situations. Most people have a good sense of humor, use that to your advantage. Be confident, you are probably going to be rebuffed by many people and there will be a few verbal, angry people. Don't let it get you down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_m_johnson Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 Most of the work I did on the street was with an SLR and a 50mm lens. Have your camera ready to fire. You are not there to put on a show as "MR/MS photographer." Get your shot, smile and be on your way.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sliu Posted March 7, 2003 Share Posted March 7, 2003 I found following quote from Susan Sontag's <i>On photography - The Image-World</i> (one of the photography books I am reading these days) very interesting and I want to share it with you: <pre> (The good manners of a camera culture dictate that one is supposed to pretend not to notice when one is being photographed by a stranger in a public place as long as the photographer stays at a discreet distance --- that is, one is supposed neither to forbid the picture-taking nor to start posing.) </pre> If you photograph people in this camera culture, you are in heaven. I do not live in a place like that so I don't do that sort of photography at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabophoto Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 S. Liu, I don´t know what your problem with being in NYC is, but I found street photography there very easy and relaxed. People are so used to photographers, it rarely becomes a problem. It´s important to convey the impression that you´re sure of yourself and of what you´re doing. Don´t try to hide that you´re taking pictures. Carsten http://www.cabophoto.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emre Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 Poor Supriyo...so much mixed advice. I suggest you listen to the experienced folks who say that it can be done with any camera. Just make sure you know how to use it. Then you can concentrate on the subject instead of fiddling with your tool ;) Practice makes perfect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_bender Posted March 8, 2003 Share Posted March 8, 2003 (from a previous posting):<br> <a href=http://home.pacbell.net/vedmed/forum/on.invisibility.techniques.txt> <b>answer to a similar question</b></a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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