Photoshop Elements 2018/Windows 10 issue

[digitaldog]

If this how you treat and talk to your customers, I would never buy software from you.

I didn't think you could answer my simple question about that gun to your head; telling. Nor point out any experience producing software for this market.

Further, we don't sell the product any longer (it's now free, you are welcome). I wouldn't ever considering selling it to you Alan; we'd lose our shirt on tech support! :D

[AlanKlein]

Hi @AlanKlein,

 

... But there does come a time when most "worker software" suppliers say "Hey, Windows 10 has been available for 5 years now. All PC's and Laptops in that period were pre-installed were W10. Sorry, but we're withdrawing support for our apps running on a OS more than 5 years old""

...

Except they sold software to operate on a Windows 7 platform only two years before discontinuing it, not 5 years later. They should have made it available only for Windows 10 if they weren't going to support it after two years. But they're greedy and want to sell it to whoever is unsophisticated to buy it. Remember this is Elements, a retail non-pro software. It's for average photographers who figure they're buying a product that should last more than a couple of years. They expect the GM engine to have parts so they don't have to buy another car in two years, my Chevy example. If the purchaser was a professional, then you could argue he should keep spending money to stay on the edge of photo post-processing technology. But Elements is not that product. They're just sticking it to amateur photographers. (no insult intended Frans.)

[AlanKlein]

Updating from say Elements 2020 to 2021 is one thing. Updating from say Elements 2018 to 2021, four versions is another. I'll simply speak for myself in terms of paying for software outside a subscription: it's quite common to find a discount from version "1" to version "2" and the cost gets higher as the versions get greater to the point you pay full price for not upgrading.

 

None of this has anything to do with Fran's "problem"; no one, Alan included have to update an OS or software that previously ran as expected.

 

Venting about Adobe is pointless and IMHO, there's nothing to vent about when the product new, with no discount is $99. Update Elements, move forward, end of story. Or don't. Or take Adobe's advice: open PSE as administrator. Frans refuses to do any of that. So like all his other Elements problems (or issues with a display, a database, mirrorless camera he has never tried), this tread has shown it's uselessness like so many other posts of "problems" after getting sound advise that was/always is ignored.

Who cares if there are four versions after the one I bought/ What does that have to do with anything? If I bought a 2018 Chevy, do I care that they came out with new models in 2019 and 2020 and 2021? My concern is that I can't get an engine for my 2018 model. Why should I buy a new car every year? If they' don't want to support my Chevy, then I'll buy a Ford who will. They make their business decision and I make mine.

[AlanKlein]

I didn't think you could answer my simple question about that gun to your head; telling. Nor point out any experience producing software for this market.

Further, we don't sell the product any longer (it's now free, you are welcome). I wouldn't ever considering selling it to you Alan; we'd lose our shirt on tech support! :D

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Adobe has walked over many of its customers. They've made a lot of extra money in the process. But what goes around comes around.

[digitaldog]

Who cares if there are four versions after the one I bought.

People who care about the facts do but I can understand why you wouldn't care.

They should have made it available only for Windows 10 if they weren't going to support it after two years.)

Like you sir, they should assume what another company (MS) is going to do to the OS 2 years in the future to an OS? Frans OS update started his new 'problem' in the first place, no one forced him to do this; now updating Elements, or downgrading to the previous OS that worked is out of the question for him because again, solving the 'problem' isn't really the goal as his posting history has illustrated.

Why not suggest, with your lack of producing software, Adobe just give everyone free software forever? It's a silly idea but go for it sir.

Your car analogy like many I've read in the past, don't make sense and other's have pointed out to you.

If the purchaser was a professional, then you could argue he should keep spending money to stay on the edge of photo post-processing technology. But Elements is not that product. They're just sticking it to amateur photographers. (no insult intended Frans.)

That's why, it's $99 brand new (or better, $70 as we've been told). Yes I know YOU think it should be free.

Speaking of professionals, what was your profession? How do you define professional and how should Adobe define 'professional' when they 'sell' software licenses? I don't expect an answer, I'd usually expect someone would consider the question but at this time in our relationship, that's also not likely to occur.

[digitaldog]

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Adobe has walked over many of its customers.

Again, assuming, speaking for others and mostly making stuff up: Do examine Adobe's stock/subscription numbers, if they've walked over so many, it's odd far more are paying them for their products. Do you understand this graph?

 

http://digitaldog.net/files/AdobeStock.jpg

[digitaldog]

OK Frans, we're all set and you only need a mere $89 to go:

Help Frans get Elements, organized by Andrew Rodney

Then, buy it at $70 and pocket the change towards a camera.

All I ask in return is some day, take or better make a photo and share it.

[mikemorrell]

One last comment, then I think I'm going to check out of this discussion. Simply because I have no more to add. For me it's really not a question of who's got it right and who's got it wrong. But I do think that it's important to examine the facts before drawing conclusions or forming an opinion.

 

The earliest statement I can find from Adobe is that Photoshop Elements version 2014 (released in 2013) and later versions were was fully compatible with Windows 10 (see link). So the statement that 'Except they sold software [version 2018] to operate on a Windows 7 platform only two years before discontinuing it ...' is in my opinion inaccurate. In fact some users have successfully installed a number of pre-2014 versions PSE versions under Windows 10.

 

It's quite possible that this problem has little to do with Adobe or PSE and more to do with the upgrade between W7 to the current version of W10.

Nowadays, almost most upgrades go smoothly but a couple of things can go awry during any update. Even during a major Window 10 update.

 

A first thing to check is whether the PC/Laptop that used to run W7 is suitable for running W10 + apps. Most users agree that the Microsoft 'minimum system requirements' for W10 are so limited, that they're unrealistic in practice. With 2GB of RAM, Windows 10 spends almost all its time swapping parts of itself in and out of Hard Disk space. So Apps run extremely slowly, especially ones like PSE. It could just be that on a 'slow machine', PSE is barely usable. So for example: 4GB of RAM is a more realistic 'minimum' than 1 or 2 GB while 8GB of RAM gives a more comfortable experience.

 

One more thing that sometimes goes awry is that 'device drivers' and/or some 'internal program libraries' get lost or replaced during an update/upgrade. So Apps try and access a driver or library program which - because it's no longer there (or has been replaced by a different one) doesn't work as expected. There are ways and tools for checking for missing drivers and libraries and re-installing them.

 

An unlikely possibility is that Windows is running in so-called 'S mode' (Secure mode) which restricts any apps which were not downloaded from the Microsoft Store. I don't know much about this, but it's possible that they'd get blocked from accessing certain Windows resources. As far as I know, 'S mode' is optional.

 

Bottom line: If Adobe can''t offer a fix, it might well be worthwhile getting support from Microsoft (or an IT-person) rather than from Adobe. If PSE is not working properly, something might well show up in the so-callled 'Windows error log". Like Adobe, there's a thriving Windows community where someone might be able to offer a solution.

 

 

Except they sold software to operate on a Windows 7 platform only two years before discontinuing it, not 5 years later. They should have made it available only for Windows 10 if they weren't going to support it after two years. But they're greedy and want to sell it to whoever is unsophisticated to buy it. Remember this is Elements, a retail non-pro software. It's for average photographers who figure they're buying a product that should last more than a couple of years. They expect the GM engine to have parts so they don't have to buy another car in two years, my Chevy example. If the purchaser was a professional, then you could argue he should keep spending money to stay on the edge of photo post-processing technology. But Elements is not that product. They're just sticking it to amateur photographers. (no insult intended Frans.)

Edited January 31, 2021 by mikemorrell

[JDMvW]

I had a colleague who ran a graphics computer lab. Right or wrong, he always ran the OS and app version on any given computer (Windows or Mac) that it came with when it was new. He had far fewer problems than I, who had turned on "automatic upgrade," did.

 

Nowadays, I wait a long time (no version .00 for me) before upgrading. o_O

[otislynch]

Somebody (nameless) downloaded 10 without my permission. Messed up various things I use. Confronted, they put everything back quickly. Seven is unsupported, but I'll ride it as long as i can.

Unfortunately, Sandy, that lack of support means no more security updates and patches. A Win7 computer now has multiple risks for unwanted intrusion, so keeping it off your WAN is the only way to protect it. I know of no aftermarket security software that’s as good.

 

The risk is very real. Our ISP uses excellent security that alerts us to every potential threat, eg port scans and malicious 3rd party redirects. We average a few every month on one or more of the multiple devices on our LAN. I Googled the source info in the alerts, and they’ve all been real threats from known hackers.

 

[Here’s why this is not off topic]. The cost of upgrading apps when your OS updates render older versions useless is offset by the reduced risks to a more secure system. This discussion is perpetual on every forum about computer use in daily life, from audio to games to digital newspapers. We had to replace my wife’s iPad because the New York Times crossword puzzle app wouldn’t work on the most recent iOS version it could get. I’ve had to parade all my audio software (recording, DSP etc) for at least one OS upgrade. And upgrading some audio packages (eg Ardour, an excellent recording studio app) required reconfiguring the entire file structure on the internal hard drive. Even the humble Raspberry Pi is prone to this. The latest 64 bit Raspberry Pi OS has changed the basic file structure to the point that many traditional apps used by hundreds of thousands of users around the world (including me) no longer work. I can no longer play music on my upgraded Pis using Roon Bridge (an audio staple like PS is to photography). This is now what passes for “progress” - two steps forward, one+ back.

 

Stay safe, my friend!

[frans_waterlander]

A first thing to check is whether the PC/Laptop that used to run W7 is suitable for running W10 + apps.

Sorry Mike that I didn't make it clear that I got a brand new Windows 10 computer; I didn't upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 on an older computer.

[digitaldog]

I have wonder if this new Windows computer we just found out about cost less than that upgrade to Elements 2021. :p

[mikemorrell]

Yes, I understand this POV. I tend to be OK with experimenting with trial/beta versions. But I don't want to rely on ''bleeding edge versions'. An opposite effect is that the longer some users delay upgrading, the greater and more difficult the 'upgrade gap' becomes.

 

 

I had a colleague who ran a graphics computer lab. Right or wrong, he always ran the OS and app version on any given computer (Windows or Mac) that it came with when it was new. He had far fewer problems than I, who had turned on "automatic upgrade," did.

 

Nowadays, I wait a long time (no version .00 for me) before upgrading. o_O

[paddler4]

I think there is a key distinction missing in this thread. Delaying the update of an application usually (not always) entails no risk. There are exceptions where security problems are found in applications, but usually, there is no risk in delaying for a few weeks to see if other users uncover problems. OS upgrades are antoher matter. They are often in part or entirely responses to security problems rather than updates to or additions of features. I always leave automatic OS updates turned on, and this is standard in my institution.

[otislynch]

I think there is a key distinction missing in this thread. Delaying the update of an application usually (not always) entails no risk. There are exceptions where security problems are found in applications, but usually, there is no risk in delaying for a few weeks to see if other users uncover problems. OS upgrades are antoher matter. They are often in part or entirely responses to security problems rather than updates to or additions of features. I always leave automatic OS updates turned on, and this is standard in my institution.

Absolutely! But more than a few apps become useless when the OS is upgraded past a certain version, so the choice is to upgrade neither or both. For me, the security risk from OS orphan status usually outweighs the cost & aggravation of keeping current.

[mikemorrell]

Sorry Mike that I didn't make it clear that I got a brand new Windows 10 computer; I didn't upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10 on an older computer.

.

 

Then you're quite within your rights to question why a 'fully Windows compatible' version doesn't run on your new W10 computer. My apologies for my wrong assumptions!

[William Michael]

MODERATOR NOTE

There are clearly two separate and almost opposite lines of opinion running in this conversation.

 

Both can exist, robustly as necessary, however it would be better (as an example only) to not include metaphors such as holding guns to heads and (as one other example only) not include comments about not buying services from other members.

 

Such comments, in continuum, are either barbs to elicit an emotional response and/or are off topic.

 

Thank you.

 

William

[Gerald Cafferty]

Up until early last year I was running Elements 10 on Windows 10 without any problems. I only upgraded to Elements 2019 because I thought things must have improved over the intervening years, it turned out nothing important to me had altered. I do most of my processing with Lightroom 5.7.1, things seem to work OK. Things are maybe a bit slower on my 10 year old PC but time is the one thing I have plenty of.

Some people seem to enjoy having things to complain about and others seem to enjoy criticising other peoples choices. Time to chill:)

[AlanKlein]

Up until early last year I was running Elements 10 on Windows 10 without any problems. I only upgraded to Elements 2019 because I thought things must have improved over the intervening years, it turned out nothing important to me had altered. I do most of my processing with Lightroom 5.7.1, things seem to work OK. Things are maybe a bit slower on my 10 year old PC but time is the one thing I have plenty of.

Some people seem to enjoy having things to complain about and others seem to enjoy criticising other peoples choices. Time to chill:)

I think you can upgrade to LR 6 at no cost.

[digitaldog]

I think you can upgrade to LR 6 at no cost.

You got that idea where?

 

Solved: How can I upgrade to Lightroom 6 from version 5 w... - Adobe Support Community - 7129998

[digitaldog]

Yes I checked my records. I did pay for an upgrade from V5 in 2016. Updates of V6 were free, not the upgrade which I paid $84.53.

Updates of V6 were free from what? Not LR5, not unless perhaps you purchased it just prior, (within a few months at most), from when you purchased LR5 and you got 'grandfathered' in to LR6. Otherwise no, it's not a free update and it's not going to be today. You can't even find the perpetual package of LR6 anymore.

The Adobe page I provided makes the price for an update quite clear, it's not free.

• Perpetual licenses ARE still available but they’re hard to find on Adobe’s website! It’s $149 for new licenses and $79 for upgrades.
  

Edited February 3, 2021 by digitaldog

[AlanKlein]

Yes I checked my records. I did pay for an upgrade from V5 in 2016. Updates of V6 were free, not the upgrade which I paid $84.53.

[digitaldog]

The facts, today about LR6 (from an old article); not a free update (never was), and it's moot, you can't get it.

 

Last Chance to Buy Lightroom 6!

March 4th, 2019

Last Chance to Buy Lightroom 6!

Update 2020: This is an old article. Lightroom 6 is no longer for sale from authorized dealers.

 

Lightroom 6 was the last perpetual version of Lightroom offered before Adobe went subscription-only with Lightroom Classic CC. Up until recently Adobe continued to sell Lightroom 6 – but here’s a recent statement from Jeff Tranberry of Adobe on its current availability:

 

“Lightroom 6 is no longer available for sale on Adobe.com. The application stopped receiving camera support and bug fixes at the end of 2017.”

 

Which Should I Buy, Lightroom CC 2015 or Lightroom 6?

Purchase the stand-alone perpetual license “Lightroom 6”. This is priced at $149 USD for new users, or $79 USD to upgrade from any prior version (Lightroom 1-5.)

Edited February 3, 2021 by digitaldog

[AlanKlein]

The facts, today about LR6 (from an old article); not a free update (never was), and it's moot, you can't get it.

 

Last Chance to Buy Lightroom 6!

March 4th, 2019

Last Chance to Buy Lightroom 6!

Update 2020: This is an old article. Lightroom 6 is no longer for sale from authorized dealers.

 

Lightroom 6 was the last perpetual version of Lightroom offered before Adobe went subscription-only with Lightroom Classic CC. Up until recently Adobe continued to sell Lightroom 6 – but here’s a recent statement from Jeff Tranberry of Adobe on its current availability:

 

“Lightroom 6 is no longer available for sale on Adobe.com. The application stopped receiving camera support and bug fixes at the end of 2017.”

 

Which Should I Buy, Lightroom CC 2015 or Lightroom 6?

Purchase the stand-alone perpetual license “Lightroom 6”. This is priced at $149 USD for new users, or $79 USD to upgrade from any prior version (Lightroom 1-5.)

I had LR 3 teacher version, then I upgrade to LR 5. Then in 2016, I paid $84.53, the total of which seems to be $79 plus 7% sales tax, So it seems like it was an upgrade asI said from LR5 to LR6. I didn't;say I got it free. After that, LR6 had various versions issued that I updated with at no additional charge until the final and latest, LR v. 6.14.

[digitaldog]

I had LR 3 teacher version, then I upgrade to LR 5. Then in 2016, I paid $84.53, the total of which seems to be $79 plus 7% sales tax, So it seems like it was an upgrade asI said from LR5 to LR6. I didn't;say I got it free. After that, LR6 had various versions issued that I updated with at no additional charge until the final and latest, LR v. 6.14.

All moot of course. What you got, what you think you got; LR 6 was never a free upgrade from LR 5 as shown and proven from Adobe. LR 6 isn't available any longer; to purchase a license OR to subscribe.

I didn't;say I got it free.

Here's what you wrote, it's incorrect.

I think you can upgrade to LR 6 at no cost.

AND

Updates of V6 were free

Upgrades (5.7 to 6) no. There's a significant differences between updates and upgrades.

Gerald Cafferty is on 5.7.1; he can't upgrade for free to LR 6. He can't even get LR 6. Full stop. :D

After that, LR6 had various versions issued that I updated with at no additional charge until the final and latest, LR v. 6.14.

Dot releases (UPDATES) for LR 6 (or any actual version of a perpetual license) were free.

Upgrades to from major perpetual versions (LR 5 to 6) were NEVER free.

Subscribers of LR 6 are subscribers and anyone from that day forward got major upgrades and dot releases (called updates) as part of the subscription. Such people today would be working with LR 10.1.

Your experience doesn't aid Gerald Cafferty whatsoever based on your assumption he wants to or can upgrade from LR 5.7 to LR 6 for free. Not possible sir.

Edited February 5, 2021 by digitaldog