tommarcus Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 finally getting into the human modelling experience. So far its like dealing with idiots on crack. No motivation whatsoever on their part. Seriously, if someone is making money being being approachable to people with a camera, then why cant they actually be up front about what they will or will not do? Why cant they be honest about what they want out of it? Why oh why cant they actually respond in a timely manner? My most favorite moment at the moment is one who keeps changing the definition of the work she does. she has a lot of images of her wearing nothing but a 6 inch wide sheet in her non nude gallery section. yet when discussing things, that becomes part of her "nude or semi nude" modelling charge rate which is 3 times her non nude. Is that normal model behavior? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samstevens Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 So far its like dealing with idiots on crack. I generally find the way people act can be a result of how they’re treated and thought about. This is not always true but usually worth considering. 1 "You talkin' to me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikemorrell Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 The best people to respond are those who regularly work with models. I don't so this is just my opinion based on no experience. Well 'no experience' is not strictly true. My daughter is a professional actress, presenter, dancer and - on occasion - model too. I don't photograph models but I do photograph all sorts of people in all sorts of situations to visually support articles in a local newspaper. And as an ex-HR manager/consultant, I learned a lot about 'intrinsic motivation (or not)'. You may well be absolutely right that the models you select act like idiots on crack and have little intrinsic motivation (other than getting paid). This should tell you something about the quality of your model sourcing and selection process. One of the lessons I learned early on about being a 'people photographer' is that the most important skills aren't photographic but relational and communicative. A mutually respectful, trustful and collaborative relationship with good interpersonal rapport helps both the people concerned (including models) and photographers work together to get the best photos. Building this relationship takes time and (initially) effort. After a while the 'effort' becomes second nature. Professional models (like my daughter) and the agencies they work through don't earn their living by 'being approachable to people with a camera'. They can be hired to companies to show off clothes, promote products, figure in topical photos or videos, etc. And sure, there are models who will - in collaboration with trusted photographers - pose naked or semi-naked to achieve an artistic photographic result. My guess is that the model and photographer then work together to achieve the desired result. I humbly suggest that the motivation of these professional models is perhaps different from those who willingly pose erotically/naked/semi-naked anywhere for amatreur photographers in order to make money. It doesn't surprise me too much that the second category aren't 'intrinsically motivativated'. Don't get me wrong, I have no interest in censorship or in devaluing or models or amateur photographers in the second category. These photos don't interest me personally and my motto is live and let live. I just think that it's a slightly different segment of the 'model/photographer' market than many professional models (including my daughter) would choose to work in. Just as a final remark: perhaps it would help in the communication with models about the photographic result that you want to achieve. Then models can decline, negotiate on the degree of (semi-)nudity and set their price accordingly. In these internet days, photos live forever. If a model is associated with nude photos he/she may well face consequences (both positive and negative). So for the model, my guess is that it's not about this one photoshoot. But in figuring out the potential 'lost income' as a result. TBH, there is a much wider sex/skin industriy that operates on the basis of 'the more sex/skin you want to see, the more you need to pay', Unsurprising that sex/skin models adopt similar principles. finally getting into the human modelling experience. So far its like dealing with idiots on crack. No motivation whatsoever on their part. Seriously, if someone is making money being being approachable to people with a camera, then why cant they actually be up front about what they will or will not do? Why cant they be honest about what they want out of it? Why oh why cant they actually respond in a timely manner? My most favorite moment at the moment is one who keeps changing the definition of the work she does. she has a lot of images of her wearing nothing but a 6 inch wide sheet in her non nude gallery section. yet when discussing things, that becomes part of her "nude or semi nude" modelling charge rate which is 3 times her non nude. Is that normal model behavior? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommarcus Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 i have been using modelmayhem, and a few others to find models in my state. The issue i have been running into head first is that even the ones that claim to have been in the industry 5 or more years and have published photos of them in magazines, even some who have actually done regional tv commercials have no motivation to discuss. Its like the minute they explain how much they charge per hour for each genre of photography, they just stop talking. Period. The only one that actually has kept talking has only been talking to upsell things to me, and to try to force me to do a "dismembered body shoot" because shed charge me for the outfit shed wear "because it would ruin the clothes". if a model has a photo gallery of her non nude work, and she had samples of her in bikinis, and even wearing an 8 inch wide strip of sheet wrapped around. you would assume that you could do some posing of her on the beach in a bikini. but NOOOOOO the minute we discuss that, it suddenly becomes "bikini equals the same payrate as fully nude pose". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Seaman Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I'm not surprised that the model thinks a dismembered body shoot would ruin her clothes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommarcus Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 howeve I'm not surprised that the model thinks a dismembered body shoot would ruin her clothes. r even after telling her NO 8 times to it, she still wants to do that... and its at the point its all she will do with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochetrider Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 Facebook (film) photo groups are overflowing with mediocre to bad photos of bored models. I'm not sure what the appeal is, but for the most part, it doesn't come off as anything "good" or well done. Taking bad photos of bored models isn't "art", so if this is where you're headed, I suggest you join every single photo group on face book and get a good look at how NOT to do this. I might also suggest that if the pool of available models is that shallow, then perhaps it's better to see if you can get some friends to agree to letting you shoot them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommarcus Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 https://www.amazon.com/Dian-Hanson/e/B001K1UUXA/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_book_1 https://www.amazon.com/kindle-dbs/entity/author/B000APH5BW?_encoding=UTF8&node=283155&offset=0&pageSize=12&searchAlias=stripbooks&sort=author-sidecar-rank&page=1&langFilter=default#formatSelectorHeader over abundance of crap photos taken to just take them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommarcus Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 It gets more fun kids, Got kicked off a social website this morning as a "bad person" because in a "models for paid gigs" group, i replied to a post i had made that i was not searching for "dudes in dresses" when i posted for women models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samstevens Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 3 "You talkin' to me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_watson1 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Do you show them your work? Any chance that's causing a problem? Just asking... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Seaman Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 There's something hauntingly familiar about all this. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommarcus Posted July 17, 2020 Author Share Posted July 17, 2020 o Do you show them your work? Any chance that's causing a problem? Just asking... only one wanted to see my work at all. And she liked my photocrowd stuff, its all i have animals and landscape. Portfolio building sucks if your not email linked to a major studio or photographic personality.. Far to many conversations go like this: me- hello, could you let me know what your hourly rates are and what types of content you shoot? them- i charge x per hour for fully clothed/swimsuit/underwear/ panties with pasties, i charge y per hour for fully nude and z for insertion/bondage/fetish work. me- that sounds reasonable and consistent for that subject matter. Do you charge travel expenses, according to your location in your profile were about 120 miles away from each other. 2 days, 3 days, 1, 2,3,4, weeks later...... me- Hello C im trying to get back in touch with you to discuss a photo shoot with you again. We already covered costs and content, but i havent heard back from you yet.... the one upseller, still keeps trying to get me to do a zombie dismembered corpse shoot, after i keep saying NO.. talk about a lecture on " a model has a right to determine what is shot, but not the photographer who is paying for the privilege" I have ONE, yes ONE who has agreed to a shoot, and is currently discussing outfits based upon the exercise theme i was made to agree upon. Yoga pants are fun, i will admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_gallimore1 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The 'zombie dismembered shoot' actually sounds like it could be quite fun, I think I'd offer to do that for free, granting reasonable rights to the images, but reminding her that it's her project and at her costs. Provided, of course, that she'd also agree to do my paid shoot. Finding a suitable location might be problematic though. Maybe try to explain to us, here, clearly and concisely, what it is you're hoping to achieve, what look, style, mood. It might help you to set it all out clearly and we can give more effective suggestions. There are skilled people here, don't just vent at them, work with them to help you achieve your goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_hutcherson Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 There's something hauntingly familiar about all this. I don't disagree with this statement. With that said, something that hasn't come up in this thread that is often suggested would be to enroll in(or at least audit) a college photography class that involves photographing models. That does a couple of things for the OP. First of all, it takes finding a model out of the equation, since one is provided as part of the class. The second thing it does is it gets over what I think you might call a "Chicken and egg" dilemma that the OP is seemingly running into. Many models won't want to work with you unless you can show a portfolio of quality work, but it's difficult to build that portfolio if you can't get any models to work with you. Taking a class allows you to build a portfolio, and at that do so under the guidance of an instructor who hopefully is coaching you into developing your own vision and interpretation of how to photograph models. That gives you a portfolio to show to show and hopefully entice models to work with you. I say all of this as someone who rarely photographs people unless they're incidental to my other photography, but have done portraits my fair share of portraits. Someones the request comes from a friend who needs a good one for whatever reason, and I'm happy to provide at no charge. I've also taken a fair few just by chance. As an example, in less politically charged times(not to veer too off topic) I often spend Sunday afternoons photographing the beautiful grounds of my state Capitol. There's a full-time crew who works to always keep the landscaping beautiful set against the backdrop of fine limestone and marble buildings. Especially on Sundays, you'll often see parents bring their teenagers/teenagers and significant others/family to take impromptu photos in front of certain distinct landmarks like the steps, the tulips in the spring, or the floral clock, and usually dressed in their Sunday best. A big camera and lens-as cliché as that may be-gives off a certain air of "this guy knows what he's doing" and I'll often just approach and ask if they'd like me to take their photo. I'll do that, exchange email addresses, and usually work a couple of photos up that evening and shoot them over. I don't generally post those publicly, but if need be I have ~10 years of portrait work that I can show. The point being is if you look around and don't come off as creepy, opportunities to take portraits come along either as specific requests or as chance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommarcus Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 the only actual bread and mortar college class that deals with photogrophy that i can find in michigan, is more about the use of photoshop and photographing objects then anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommarcus Posted July 19, 2020 Author Share Posted July 19, 2020 But i have gotten crap from model who have done regional work, local work, just pose for random people. So far 1 have tentative plans with one for this week to do some shooting with me. But i cant even get her to SEND ME A TEXT message so i dont know if shes serious or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c_watson1 Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 Portfolio building sucks if your not email linked to a major studio or photographic personality.. Something as humble as a flickr page displaying your portrait work lends a bit of cred if you're pitching to amateur models. Frankly, though, doubtful anyone is that keen on model shoots during the current public health crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Michael Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 Moderator Note - to the OP. These Forums are not a placard space for personal venting. Additionally, the tone texture and twisted travel of this (and other) threads you have begun has a great similarity to the threads begun by a recently banned user. Moreover, it appears that user was subsequently removed. Noted that some of your posts have already been edited, deleted or closed by Moderators. Other comparisons between your recent publications and those of the aforementioned banned user have been reported to Moderators and all these have been noted. *** Threads are confined generally to the one key topic and that area of discussion and the OP does not divert threads with twists and turns at their whim or with bait. A link to the Terms and Conditions of Use and subsequently the user guidelines is at the bottom of each page. This Opening Post in this thread has been adequately addressed and discussed and quality, logical suggestions have been made to the OP and this conversation is now closed. *** It has been advised to convey to you in the strongest terms that you should consider very carefully what you published on this site, in the future. William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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