Thoughts on the Z6

[mark45831]

I was thinking about picking up a used D850 at the end of the year upgrading from a D750, but from the price of the D850 used is around the same as the Z6 new, the Z7 is out of my price range and more camera than I think I will ever use. So with it being out for about a year now if im correct whats your hands on thought on the Z6 and when using F mount lens is there and difference with lens IQ?

[ShunCheung]

I have had my Z6 for 11 months. So far I am very happy with it. But keep these two issues in mind:

• Any screwdriver AF/AF-D lenses become manual focus only on the Z.
  
• You need an XQD/CFx card so two. Do factor in that cost.
  

And I would never like a camera with only one card slot, but I'll tolerate that for the Z6.

[orsetto]

The D850 would be more of an apparent upgrade, to a higher resolution, higher dynamic range sensor housed in a "pro" body that in all likelihood is the last and best DSLR Nikon will ever offer. By all accounts its a phenomenally well-thought-out camera with great performance: I've only borrowed one occasionally, but those who own it really like it. There may be one or two more iterations of slight upgrades, almost certainly a D860, but aside from the arguable benefit of yet another resolution boost to 50 or 60 MP (whatever Sony offers Nikon next), there isn't much left that can be dramatically improved. The D850 is about as evolved as DSLRs are ever likely to get. Now that availability and pricing has stabilized, they're an excellent buy for those who primarily expect to continue using F-mount AF lenses.

 

The Z6 is more of a "side grade" - for all practical purposes, it is "the mirrorless D750". The sensor is somewhat evolved from the D750, but resolution and performance are largely similar. As ShunCheung mentioned, it is important to consider your current and near-term intentions before migrating to Z mount. The big Z advantages are the really good S-series lenses, and the standard mirrorless trick of short flange distance and EVF offering amazing versatility with thousands of vintage manual focus lenses of all brands.

 

If you're content with the sensor specs of your D750, but would like to move entirely into the future with a mirrorless version of it (or can afford to maintain two complementary systems), the Z6 is great. Just be very sure the compromised functionality with F mount glass will be acceptable in your work. Again as ShunYeung noted, the FTZ adapter disables AF with screw drive lenses, and as with all mirrorless cameras the sensor-based Z6 AF is designed to drive new mirrorless-optimized AF lenses (the FTZ adapter will allow AF with AF-S lenses, but AF performance will not always be as snappy as when the same lenses are on your D750). Mirrorless lenses employ a different type of AF motor configuration than DSLR: some recent F-mount lenses contain a similar motor, but the vast majority do not.

Edited October 15, 2019 by orsetto

[mike_halliwell]

In hindsight, I wonder whether Nikon properly considered 2 different FTZs.

 

No.1 had a full legacy ability of Aperture shut-down lever AND screwdriver AF

 

No.2 was E only with no mechanical linkages what-so-ever.

 

........and they chose the half-way house of aperture mechanism only.... and a rather unsightly tripod mount.

[ShunCheung]

In hindsight, I wonder whether Nikon properly considered 2 different FTZs.

 

No.1 had a full legacy ability of Aperture shut-down lever AND screwdriver AF

 

No.2 was E only with no mechanical linkages what-so-ever.

 

........and they chose the half-way house of aperture mechanism only.... and a rather unsightly tripod mount.

#1 would have been a really bulky adapter two at least two motors to drive AF and close down the aperture diaphragm, respectively.

 

I actually like a #2, but E lenses didn't become common until just a few years ago. Not all that many lenses can use such an adapter.

 

All things considered, I think Nikon made a very reasonable compromise with the current FTZ. I kind of doubt that we'll ever see #1 due to the complexity and limited space to implement.

[mike_halliwell]

a really bulky adapter

 

Whilst i think you're absolutely right, I was surprised how small the AF screwdrive motor assembly was in the D600 I recently converted to IR.

 

However, maybe the torque needed by some of the older AF (non S) lenses was unreasonable from a small motor, and performance would suffer.

 

It would be intersting to see how the combination of direct-drive screwdrive AF and sensor-only based AF signals worked.

[ilkka_nissila]

It would be intersting to see how the combination of direct-drive screwdrive AF and sensor-only based AF signals worked.

 

I don't believe it would work well at all. Although I believe in maintaining the maximum compatibility with past lenses and accessories possible, mirrorless AF with screwdriver AF lenses just isn't a good idea. PDAF on a mirrorless camera has a short distance between the two sides of each PDAF sensor element and thus the phase contrast is small. The elements are small, so they collect little light. In low light, the contrast-to-noise ratio is low and as a result the camera uses contrast-detect AF algorithms instead of PDAF. In contrast-detect AF, you only can evaluate an image contrast function and there is no information on which direction to go, to improve focus, or how far the camera should adjust the focus. So the contrast has to be evaluated at multiple points and the results evaluated to make further adjustments. The precision of the small focus adjustments and their reproducibility is important for the algorithm to work well. This is why AF-S Nikkors in Nikon DSLR live view (which is CDAF only) focus with some hunting, whereas AF-P Nikkors just snap into focus almost instantly. Try a motorless AF Nikkor with DSLR LV and you can get a rough idea. It just works extremely badly. The motor makes a big difference when working with AF based on the image sensor only. For this reason, I think it's entirely reasonable that Nikon did not implement AF with the FTZ when used with motorless AF Nikkors and I think it was the right way to go. Sony have an adapter for A mount lenses to be used on E mount cameras which includes the motor for screwdriver AF lenses but to achieve this they had to include a pellicle mirror and separate AF module in the adapter, essentially converting the camera into an SLT. Nikon have a patent on a similar adapter which includes the pellicle mirror and AF module. If Nikon want to provide good AF with motorless AF Nikkors on a mirrorless camera, they too will need to include a pellicle mirror and AF sensor module in the adapter. I am not saying it is totally a bad idea, if they can put in a Multi-CAM 20k, it might even work well. However, the cost would probably be very high. And there would be the pellicle mirror between the lens and image sensor.

 

I think Nikon might produce such an adapter but I suspect if they do, they would put in some smaller AF sensor module (such as Multi-CAM 4800) to keep the adapter size in control and then the AF performance would be D7000 level. I just don't see this being a success. The FTZ seems a well-thought-out adapter. What I would like to see is them offering wide open viewing for manual focus lenses (with the mechanical Ai readout) but they left even that feature out of the adapter. So there is some room for improvement but Nikon seemed to want to keep the FTZ minimalist in the sense of having the fewest moving parts (that might be broken over time) while still fully supporting G lenses which are the most common type of F mount Nikkor.

[john_harper9]

12 months ago I was considering a mirrorless camera with weight & size reduction over the Nikon DSLR gear I hauled around, but every time I played with one, the startup lag and mediocre EVF discouraged me from purchasing. Then I tried a Z7 in the store - the EVF was good and it fit my hand well. Eventually bought a Z6 kit so I could afford a 14-30S and I'm pleased with the smaller size of the system and IQ of the lenses. Except for vignetting (mostly corrected in camera), the 14-30 equals my 14-24. There is a bit of startup lag which is annoying when using my Z6 plus a DSLR together at a sporting event - I really appreciate the instantaneous operation of the DSLR for action.

 

My F mount lenses work fine with the FTZ. The focus peaking EVF with my old AI lenses addresses the manual focus challenges of my DSLRs and I carry a 200/4AI instead of a 70-200 zoom in my Z6 travel kit.

 

Battery life is decent and I can use my D8xx batteries.

 

WRT IQ, it's a 24MP sensor so you will have the equivalent pixels as the D750. I have a couple of images where I wish I shot with a D8xx for micro detail. Perhaps I'll add a higher MP Z7 body when the budget allows. But the camera you have with you is always better than the cell phone. The Z kit is light and small enough to stay with me and is an excellent travel camera.

[Mary Doo]

I was thinking about picking up a used D850 at the end of the year upgrading from a D750, but from the price of the D850 used is around the same as the Z6 new, the Z7 is out of my price range and more camera than I think I will ever use. So with it being out for about a year now if im correct whats your hands on thought on the Z6 and when using F mount lens is there and difference with lens IQ?

 

I started out seeking comments and opinions on D850 a few weeks ago but ended up getting into the Z mirrorless sytem. Loving it. Not looking back.

 

Here is a pretty good comparison of the two cameras.

[Mary Doo]

One additional thing that I don't think is covered. The VR feature of V6/7 is excellent. I handheld at 1/8s shooting waterfalls and there is no sign of movement in the image. I would have gone to a lower shutter speed (to get even smoother water effect) but the ISO could not go any lower.

[mark45831]

makes for a tough decision... All though I have a few D lens I tend to shoot in manual most of the time anyways. and the ones that I do use auto focus like the 200-500 should do fine on it and most every thing else I have are manual lens, thanks for all the input, going to need to sleep on it.

[Mary Doo]

makes for a tough decision... All though I have a few D lens I tend to shoot in manual most of the time anyways. and the ones that I do use auto focus like the 200-500 should do fine on it and most every thing else I have are manual lens, thanks for all the input, going to need to sleep on it.

I agree, especially when your D750 is already an excellent camera. Perhaps there is no need to "upgrade" at all. I think a lot of the people here discuss "want" rather than need, myself included. LOL. On my part I am constantly seeking to find the best combination that meet my workflow (and I am not even a professional photographer). Heaven knows how subjective this is, and perhaps it's an excuse to feed a bad habit. Haha. The best photography does not require the best equipment.

 

Perhaps the thoughts here would help toward a decision:

https://digitalrev.com/2017/09/10/nikon-d850-vs-nikon-d750-should-you-upgrade/

[mark45831]

I agree, especially when your D750 is already an excellent camera. Perhaps there is no need to "upgrade" at all. I think a lot of the people here discuss "want" rather than need, myself included. LOL. On my part I am constantly seeking to find the best combination that meet my workflow (and I am not even a professional photographer). Heaven knows how subjective this is, and perhaps it's an excuse to feed a bad habit. Haha. The best photography does not require the best equipment.

 

Perhaps the thoughts here would help toward a decision:

https://digitalrev.com/2017/09/10/nikon-d850-vs-nikon-d750-should-you-upgrade/

I always say, " He who dies with the most toys wins!"

[orsetto]

though I have a few D lens I tend to shoot in manual most of the time anyways. and the ones that I do use auto focus like the 200-500 should do fine on it and most every thing else I have are manual lens.

 

This helps clarify things tremendously: with your lenses and workflow preference, you are much more likely to see a benefit from the Z6 than the D850. The D850 is a fantastic camera, the best DSLR available in many respects, but its a traditional OVF camera optimized for AF (the viewfinder is designed for composition only). Upgrading from D750 to D850 would get you enhanced resolution, enhanced AF, nicer build quality, but otherwise change absolutely nothing in your experience.

 

The Z6 would be more of a revelation: resolution, size and weight about the same as your D750 but the electronic full-time live view viewfinder is a dramatic difference in terms of manual focus ease, accuracy and speed. The Z6 wasn't available when I needed an EVF body for all my vintage manual Nikkors, so I picked up a used Sony A7II to supplement my Nikon DSLRs (functionality and sensor are similar). The only glitch that might spoil your Z6 party concerns your 200-500 zoom: using that with the FTZ adapter could prove disappointing (adapted long tele zooms are worst case scenario for mirrorless AF performance). If you mostly shoot landscape, you likely won't notice the difference, but sports or wildlife could be a slog. If you bought the 200-500 primarily for action type shooting, I'd recommend holding on to the D750 as dedicated body for just that lens.

 

I always say, " He who dies with the most toys wins!"

 

I'm down with that for film cameras, which became so affordable and price-floor-stable that I quickly accumulated my own personal museum in recent years. But when it comes to digital, not so much. The bodies and latest high performance lenses are just too darned expensive to risk more than one or two big mistakes. Of course, a Z6 is such a hot item at present that you could easily buy one used, check it out for a couple months, and if you don't get on with it as expected resell at minimal loss.

[conrad_hoffman]

I've had my Z6 for almost a whole week now. I was really skeptical about going to an EVF, but the more I use it, the more I like it. It was the only camera I could afford that "checked all my boxes" for things I need to do. I have a lot of AiS manual lenses, so there had to be a way to use those. I needed video, which I didn't have before, and the video of the 750 seemed to be showing its age, plus no 4k. The Z6 seems to do great video. I do a lot of focus stacking and that's built in on the Z6 and Z7, though I haven't used it yet. I don't do sports, so can't comment there. The 24-70 kit lens is fantastic. It was a huge leap of faith going to mirrorless, not to mention the expense of buying memory cards, a reader, more batteries and who knows what else, but it was absolutely the right decision for somebody that couldn't afford a D850.

[robert_bouknight1]

I bought a Z6 this summer that I now use more than the D810 I still have.

 

The Z6 allows me to pack up a much smaller/lighter kit (14-30S, 40/f1/4 VL, Canon 100/3.5LTM). For a big trip I took with much walking and gear carrying, this was very important. Packed weight on that trip was critical.

 

I feel like focus accuracy is better with the Z6 in AF, and certainly for manual focus and especially with wide angle lenses. So with a little more consistent focus accuracy and a little bit better understanding of what the camera will capture from the EVF, I'm winding up with consistently good images from the Z6. Maybe more consistent than what I could get with the D810 and it's additional 12MP. I use exposure compensation a lot with the Z6 and it's EVF. And, I think the in body IS is great with lenses that don't have VR.

 

I have not learned how to shoot action (sports) with the Z6 EFV, so I will be keeping a DSLR for the time being. A D850 (or probably still D810 is a more well rounded "can do anything" camera).

 

Am looking forward to the release of pancake Z mount lenses!

Edited October 16, 2019 by robert_bouknight|1

[Mary Doo]

I always say, " He who dies with the most toys wins!"

Does he? Somehow I doubt it, unless his heir also wants what he wants. Otherwise they go to trash or the yard sale for a dollar a piece. ;)

[mike_halliwell]

The only glitch that might spoil your Z6 party concerns your 200-500 zoom: using that with the FTZ adapter could prove disappointing (adapted long tele zooms are worst case scenario for mirrorless AF performance)

What's the main problem? 'Slow' aperture?

 

Is it the 'zoom' part or the 'tele' part that's worse or the combo?

 

On a separate issue, I was hoping that the focus peaking might help with MF my now AF-dead 600mm f4 AFS?

[mike_halliwell]

I handheld at 1/8s shooting waterfalls and there is no sign of movement in the image

Wot? Not even the water...? :p:D

[2Oceans]

Shun, have you used your Z6 and FTZ adapter with your 600mm. If so how efficient was the AF?

[ShunCheung]

Shun, have you used your Z6 and FTZ adapter with your 600mm. If so how efficient was the AF?

First of all, my 600mm is the 2007 version with VR, not the latest E FL. I mainly use the Z6 on it to capture 4K video. AF is more than OK for still subjects, but since I have a lot of DSLR alternatives, I wouldn’t use the Z6 for birds in flight.

[orsetto]

What's the main problem? 'Slow' aperture?

 

The aperture shouldn't be much of a problem, its more a question of electromechanical optimization. The 200-500 is an F-mount lens with AF mechanics that assume the standard separate PDAF mirror box DSLR sensor will drive it. This lens also involves (acceptable) compromises in AF speed/flexibility to meet its affordable price point (like many similar lenses, it can struggle a bit under certain circumstances even on a D850). There aren't a lot of detailed reports of how this lens performs on the FTZ with the Z6 specifically, most I've seen are for the Z7. On the Z7, many feel the AF works reasonably well most of the time, but in situations where it would falter on the D750/D850, it can get notably worse on the Z7. Interestingly, there seems to be a growing consensus that it works better via FTZ for closer distances than it does on DSLR.

 

Is it the 'zoom' part or the 'tele' part that's worse or the combo?

 

Again, more a question of AF system optimization. Midprice and budget price long tele zooms entail compromises in AF performance that can sometimes be magnified when adapted to mirrorless on-image-sensor control. This would further be affected by the type of photography: landscape or architectural detail work would seemingly be unaffected, while soccer or some types of wildlife may present variable difficulty (even on DSLR). The AF performance difference between DSLR and Z with FTZ narrows when the lens has more expensive, faster inherent AF to begin with (70-200, 80-400, etc).

 

But you can still run afoul of the "species" disconnect between the Z AF system being optimized for mirrorless-spec lens AF motors vs the typical F-mount AF-S lens motors. F-mount assumes the system will zero in on distance and lock focus in fewer steps, Z-mount assumes a series of quicker smaller microadjustments. Interpreting the Z AF input for the F AF-S motor involves some overhead and compensating which can impede performance with some lenses in some conditions.

 

On a separate issue, I was hoping that the focus peaking might help with MF my now AF-dead 600mm f4 AFS?

 

The Z cameras would almost certainly help you maximize use of this lens in manual focus mode. I've had way more focus success with my crummy generic 500mm f/8 mirror (catadioptric) lens on my Sony A7II than I ever had on D40, D90 or D700. A 600mm f/4 should be a cakewalk in comparison, tho sometimes you get unexpected unpleasant surprises. Given the 600mm f/4 falls in the "exotic" class, it really merits renting a Z body for personal work-specific evaluation before you commit.

Edited October 18, 2019 by orsetto

[conrad_hoffman]

I had dismal results with some old manual lenses on my old D200 because I couldn't see focus well enough. The 50 f/1.2 was especially bad because you have to be dead on. I'm hoping for better results with the Z6, but have been too busy to try any of my old lenses yet.

[grh]

I was thinking about picking up a used D850 at the end of the year upgrading from a D750, but from the price of the D850 used is around the same as the Z6 new, the Z7 is out of my price range and more camera than I think I will ever use.

 

If the Z7 is more camera than you need, then so is the D850. They're not that far apart.

 

I test-drove a D810 3 years ago, then bought the D750. I added a D850 this year for: truly silent shooting (I shoot classical music events) and flexibility in resolution (I often shoot at 24MP, not 47), and a bit better low light performance (I shoot a lot in dim light). I had the money, I had the need, I bought. If not for the silent mode, however, I'd have stayed with the D750. It's a great body.

[mark45831]

If the Z7 is more camera than you need, then so is the D850. They're not that far apart.

 

I test-drove a D810 3 years ago, then bought the D750. I added a D850 this year for: truly silent shooting (I shoot classical music events) and flexibility in resolution (I often shoot at 24MP, not 47), and a bit better low light performance (I shoot a lot in dim light). I had the money, I had the need, I bought. If not for the silent mode, however, I'd have stayed with the D750. It's a great body.

One of the things that pull me to the Z6 is the in camera stabilizer, I like to shoot a lot with manual lens, but the D850 would be considered if I can get a good deal on a used one, that or the Z6