Nikon D850, Early Impressions

[Andrew Garrard]

I'm highly likely to get a D850 in 2018 (I nearly said "next year", but it isn't any more, where I am), but if like to know about any surprises. I only recently picked up on the lack of "easy ISO", for example.

 

My biggest concern is that dpreview reported "speckles" that I've not seen reported elsewhere, and I don't know how much to worry about them...

[ShunCheung]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the D850's high-ISO performance. Obviously it has the smallest pixel pitch among all Nikon FX-format DSLRs so far, and the small pixels don't favor high-ISO performance; that is simple physics. If we scale the images down to the same number of pixels, IMO, the high-ISO performance has not changed that much from the D800 to the D810 and to the D850. If you are after high-ISO results and are willing to pay, the D5 is designed to perform at high ISO for indoor sports, etc., and it "only" has 20MP. The D5 also sacrifices a bit of low-ISO dynamic rage. The D850 is designed to be used at (or at least close to) ISO 64 to capture the most amount of details.

 

However, the dynamic range for the D850 is very good. I have on purpose underexposed some landscape images by 5 stops, and I have everything from "properly exposed" to -1, -2 all the way to -5 stops. Even the one that is -5 can be recovered quite nicely with plenty of details.

 

In early December, I went with my wife to Hong Kong for a week, mainly to attend her high school reunion. She went to an all-girls school there, and I was one of the few husbands at the reunion. Naturally I was one of the main photographers there. The D850 is great for their group shots, and I used it for some 4K videos also.

 

One thing to keep in mind is that the video files from 4K are huge. I shot MP4 and it is about 1G per minute of video. I used that to capture when the women sang their school song, which lasted about 3 minutes, but to be on the safe side, I had started the video capture well in advance. What I didn't pay attention to was that there is a 4G (video) file size limit. In other words, once the video reached about 4 minutes, the video file size hit the maximum, and it automatically cut over to a new video file.

 

The end result was that the last 30 seconds of the song is in a different video file, although it is quite simple to use video-editing software to join the two files together. There is a very minor click during the transition, but you really need to know where it is and pay special attention to notice it.

 

(I am including s small, low-quality JPEG of their group image. I know it doesn't do the D850 justice.)

 

[Ed_Ingold]

Every audio and video recorder I have is limited to 4G, or even 2G files. However the splits are totally seamless. Perhaps the "click" is introduced by your editing software. I use Adobe Premiere Pro for video, and Nuendo or Pro Tools for audio. When editing audio,I cut on the frame line (75 fps), so no click occurs on a CD (which completes a short frame with zeros) Edited January 1, 2018 by Ed_Ingold

[ShunCheung]

Every audio and video recorder I have is limited to 4G, or even 2G files. However the splits are totally seamless. Perhaps the "click" is introduced by your editing software. I use Adobe Premiere Pro for video, and Nuendo or Pro Tools for audio. When editing audio,I cut on the frame line (75 fps), so no click occurs on a CD (which completes a short frame with zeros)

It could be a software issue. I just used iMovie on a Mac to join the files.

 

5 years ago in their previous reunion, I used the D7000 to capture 1080 HD video, and the video file for their school song was only about 500M bytes. I uploaded those files to FaceBook, which does additional compression.

[Andy Murphy]

D850 with 28 AIS f2.8 at f2.8

[Andy Murphy]

D850 with 45 f2.8 at f2.8

[Andy Murphy]

Using older AIS 28 f2.8 and 45 f2.8 at f2.8 and my impression is that the bigger sensor enhances the use of those lenses. Same for my AIS 105 f2.5. Of course, newer lenses like the 105 f1.4e outstrip the legacy lenses on MTF charts but the legacy lenses can produce contrasty images with sufficient MP's for picture agencies or other purposes.

[mike_halliwell]

The 45mm lens is OK, but that 28mm used wide open has pretty bad corner issues.

[Ed_Ingold]

Huge video files are intimidating, but not necessarily limiting. Many cameras have options for smaller files. Full 4,2,2 4K/30p is 100 MB/sec and 2K is half that. Both my Canon video cams and Sony A7/A9 have the option of recording MP4 proxy files along with the main recording. Even the proxy files are a little large for email, but work well via Dropbox or FTP. Offhand, they run about 150 MB per 10 minutes viewing. Until super-BD software becomes a reality, I won't be distributing 4K, but I will use it to downsize to standard HD (2K). Likewise I downsize 2K video to 720p, which is easier yet to distribute. Downsampling in Premiere Pro removes nearly all aliasing (staircase edges) and framing artifacts.

 

You can't use standard zoom lenses in real time unless you have a B-roll to cover the jitters. Sony makes a couple of power zoom lenses, and power zoom is standard issue for most video cameras. I've used my still cameras for B-roll at fixed settings. You just have to stop and restart every 29 minutes or less, and change batteries when needed (or use an external USB battery). My smallest video camera is three times as large and twice as heavy.

 

The shutter is silent (electronic) and the mirror up for video with a DSLR. Quiet is cool!

[ShunCheung]

Back in 2011 when I tested the then brand new Nikon 1 J1 mirrorless camera, I used that to shoot some HD video. After like 10 minutes, that little camera became very hot, so hot that it almost hurt my hand to hold it. I can't imagine that kind of heat is good for the electronics inside.

 

I haven't pushed the D850 to that extend. I have mostly captured short video segments, usually shorter than one minute and a few that lasts 2, 3 minutes. Unfortunately, we don't have a 4K TV to watch it.

[Andy Murphy]

The 45mm lens is OK, but that 28mm used wide open has pretty bad corner issues.

True

[mag_miksch]

the good 28 is the 2.0

[mike_halliwell]

The sigma 24-35mm f2 behaves nicely on my D810, guess it will be OK on a D850.

 

I tend to be a bit lazy with it and leave it @ f4 unless more DoF is needed.

 

Even wide open, it doesn't really 'do' shallow DoF, and I prefer in-camera sharpness as I can soften it later. It doesn't really work the other way around!

 

Guess I'll keep my D810 for the rest of 2018 and then look around.

[ShunCheung]

One addition I am quite happy about is the new options for the Exposure Delay Mode on the D850.

 

Back in the early days such as the D2X, there was a fixed delay of 0.4 sec. Later on Nikon changed the delay to selectable among 1, 2 and 3 seconds, which is fine but sometimes even 1 second is a bit long. On the D850, there are more choices.

 

[raczoliver]

I set my camera up so that the Pv button with the command dial changes the exposure delay setting. It is quite neat to have that option.

[bob_bill]

Is it possible to set up a button to change from FF to crop without going into the menu on the d850?

[Dieter Schaefer]

Is it possible to set up a button to change from FF to crop without going into the menu on the d850?

US manual Nikon D850 page 139 - yes, it is possible.

[Andrew Garrard]

US manual Nikon D850 page 139 - yes, it is possible.

 

Probably a little less useful than previous D8x0 cameras, though, since it doesn't gain you any frame rate. It still saves you storage (and buffer) - I've thought of it being useful before, especially when tracking wildlife that's varying in distance.

 

I know the D850 had a "third FN button" (if not in a very helpful place). I'm beginning to wish there were more suited around the right hand, for all the things I might end up configuring. I'd quite often like virtual horizon, DoF preview, AND several other options...

[bob_bill]

Thanks Dieter, haven't ordered one yet. Looks like still a delay on delivery. Andrew, I was thinking of using it to get a 4 "zoom" settings on a 400 2.8. 400 on ff, 600 as crop, 680 with ff and 1.7 tc, crop plus 1.7 1020.

[Andrew Garrard]

I don't think of crop modes as zoom - I always crop in post anyway, and they don't give you any more detail, they just discard some pixels at the point of capture. If you're worried about storage space or buffer (I sometimes am) and you know you'll crop the edges of the frame anyway, it's useful, but it doesn't gain you anything like a teleconverter does.

 

I've been known to put my D810 into 1.2x crop to take it up to 6fps, but since the D850 can do its full speed at full frame rate (ignoring the 30fps "not video honest" mode) you don't gain speed, just buffer/storage. I used my D800 in DX crop at the London Olympics because there was a limit on lens size so I didn't have the reach I needed, and I absolutely wanted not to run out of CF space, but that was the exception. Usually the extra pixels do no harm.

 

If small raw actually used binning (like Phase One) the same would apply - it's an operation I'd be doing later in post anyway, so I may as well save storage. I remain unclear what the D850's small raw modes do - it sounds as though they've changed since the D810, but they don't retain dynamic range as I'd hope binning does.

 

On that note, it would be nice if you could configure 14-bit vs 12-bit depending on ISO (as Thom Hogan had proposed). I haven't looked whether it can at least be switched by programming a function button.

[raczoliver]

I also feel like there still aren't enough configurable buttons within easy reach. I am coming from the D700, and the exposure mode button moving to the left is a definite step back, so I quickly mapped it to the video record button.

 

It would be nice if I could configure some buttons on the left (for example the mode button, which I now have moved to the right, or the quality button, which I rarely ever use, and if I did wand to change the quality once a year, I wouldn't mind going into the menu for that) for functions that I do use occasionally, but not necessarily while the camera is held to my eyes. For example the image area is one I can think of. First I put that on the Fn 1 button, but then I decided the virtual horizon was more important for me, so I ended up putting it in "my menu" instead, and configured Fn 2 to on the back of the camera to open "my menu". I put a couple more items there which I use often, but couldn't map them to any button. I don't think I'll use the crop modes much, but the 4:5 and 1:1 modes are nice in the studio I think. I compose differently with the unused area masked out, and I personally find it hard to "crop in my head".

 

The placing of the BKT button is very awkward, I would prefer to have it on top, for example instead of the metering mode button. As for metering mode selection, I like the rotary switch on the D700.

 

I now have the joystick set up so that it activates group area AF directly. This way I have the AF-ON button to activate whatever I have the camera's AF system set to (mostly 25 point dynamic AF), and if I need group area AF, I just use the joystick as my AF-ON button. This way I have two AF modes constantly available, activates with different buttons. The downside is that now I don't have exposure lock function available, which I would occasionally use with center weighted metering and aperture or shutter speed priority exposure modes.I guess I'll have to go through a couple of configurations until I find the ideal one. I know I could do multiple configurations and save them in different banks, but that is just too much for my brain to remember.

 

One thing that confused me was that by default, the command dials were behaving differently when setting exposure and when setting exposure compensation. A turn to the right on either command dial decreases exposure, while in conjunction with the exposure compensation button they did just the opposite. So I had to reverse the command dials for exposure compensation. It's something I take care of once and never have to change again, but the default configuration just didn't seem to make any sense.

[heimbrandt]

...I've been known to put my D810 into 1.2x crop to take it up to 6fps, but since the D850 can do its full speed at full frame rate (ignoring the 30fps "not video honest" mode) you don't gain speed, just buffer/storage. I used my D800 in DX crop at the London Olympics because there was a limit on lens size so I didn't have the reach I needed, and I absolutely wanted not to run out of CF space, but that was the exception. Usually the extra pixels do no harm.

It is more the added speed than saving card space that I like about the DX crop mode and why I think it is a relevant feature on such a high resolution body (a body most want to use near base ISO without cropping). Granted, the D850 is fast enough, so cropping in post would be enough on the D850.

[ilkka_nissila]

You do get increased burst depth in crop modes, and some people may actually want to see what is happening just outside of the selected field of view while shooting, in the viewfinder.

[Andrew Garrard]

Agreed, Ilkka. I do think the crop is still useful on the D850, just less so than on previous D8x0 bodies.

[Dieter Schaefer]

Haven't engaged any of the crop modes on the D810 at all - I rather crop in post if needed. Or use the D500 when I want "more reach", faster fps, or better AF.