It's time for a new, high-quality compact camera

[rossb]

Hunt enjoys entertaining his site's followers and selling them stuff. I don't take him especially seriously on this or any other matter. Film camera sales were fading nearly 15 years ago and went over the falls just a few years later. I doubt there would be lineups to buy a $1000+ film compact when the Fuji X100T goes about the same price. The stuff of dreams...

 

That's about what my son says. My opinion is I do not know what would sell out there. If they were free camera's I would take the compact and use it on my upcoming hike up Half Dome. The Fuji is of no interest to me but if it fell in my lap I would sell it for sure.

 

My son did just put a Contax G1 with 2 lenses on ebay and people bidded it up on that camera. He made $150.00 on it. He bought it a while back when he was in Grad school in Montana. He also had an Olympus OMD EM5 that he bought from KEH about the same time and sold that also. He lost $150.00 on that and came out a wash on it all. He is shooting a Leica M6 that he got from Bellamy just a few days ago.. He received a real nice camera from Japan for sure.

[rossb]

I was just at the Hospital thrift shop. I stop in a few times a year to donate or to buy old stuff. I went through the camera basket today and it's basically filled with compact camera's that may or may not work. Canon sure shot and similar camera's. They had a Canon Underwater camera called AS-6 for $3.00 so I bought it. I am charging a couple of AAA batteries now to see if it fires up. I only have bulk film so I need to buy a regular role somewhere for the DX coding aspect. First I will see if it comes to life with batteries. I thought it might be fun if it worked and the underwater part may provide something interesting. Point and shoot 100% with a f4.5 lens. Fixed focus and I am just going to assume 12 feet would be the sweet spot. Edited May 20, 2017 by rossb

[rossb]

The underwater camera is dead.

[Jochen_S]

I handled the Mamiya 6 in it's days, was impressed but not afloat enough and stuck to C330 and added C33. As a compact I like the Agfa Super Isolette (heirloom) since the day I got contact lenses.

I am wondering, since this discussion is about AF compacts: Has there been any decent AF for them? Or could it be made at all? - I honestly don't know. I stuck with all variants of sluggish AF way too long, from borrowing a Minolta 5000 via digital point & waits to the first 4 Pentax DSLRs and early Fujis.

I don't think I'd be in the market for a modern premium film compact. - I own manual SLRs & RFs and should still get along with them.

[rossb]

My son has a Mamiya 330 and he enjoys it a great deal. I use a Mamiya 645e which seems well suited to me. I am going to lug it around the Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk this afternoon and take a few pictures of my Grand Kids on the rides and stuff.

 

As far as autofocus goes I tend to meter and focus in different places many times and with auto focus you have to get the AEL functions set so you can accomplish that. To me it's kind of like I have the feature and now I need to override it. Anyway I think that for me manual focus is quick and easy and preferred. I tend to keep the camera set at infinity and then when I am going to shoot I am usually just maybe 1/8th of a turn from critical focus. In a dark environment I can just set it and with auto focus the camera's that I have owned just start that hunting thing and you miss the shot.

 

I did try out a Mamiya 7 once at Yosemite. My friend had one and wanted me to try it out. So I did take it and shot a few roles of film but I had no contrast filters for B/W and I guess the rangefinder was out of adjustment as I had many shots out of focus. I guess I would rather just shoot my 645e as everything works. When I focus the camera then it's just in focus. The 645e is much smaller then the RB67 but is no compact by any means. Anyway I am happy with the camera and am fine just using it. I just shoot 400 speed B/W film in it so having other film backs to change out would not really be helpful. . They would all have the same film in them anyway. I do not shoot color film any longer as I do not want to take on developing color and I do not want to send color film out in the mail due to the high cost.

 

I own a Nikon FG with a 50mm E lens. It may not be a compact but it's fairly small. It's not going into your pocket for sure. I use my cell phone for pictures quite often and it's a compact and it works very good actually. On my upcoming hike up Yosemite's Half Dome on June 8th I am just taking my cell phone with me. I am going to have my MF camera in the car and plan on taking some photos with it on the 9th if I am not to tired or sore.

[Richard Williams]

I went through the camera basket today and it's basically filled with compact camera's that may or may not work. Canon sure shot and similar camera's.

Some of the Sure Shots can be really worthwhile cameras. I recently picked up a Sure Shot Supreme, which has a very good 4 element f/2.8 lens with unusually close focusing. I ran a roll of expired Ektar through it and was impressed with the results. It's nice to use, except for the small and awkwardly placed flash suppression button. Luckily it hasn't suffered the price inflation of cult cameras like the Yashica T4, which has a fairly similar specification. Incidentally, I noticed someone at a camera fair this weekend was asking £200 for a Yashica T-Zoom (aka T4 Zoom). It's an unremarkable P&S of its time, with a typically slow zoom, and without the Zeiss-branded lens and the cult status of its fixed focal length sibling would be worth perhaps 1/10th of that price.

[rossb]

I remember the Sure Shot was a popular model back in the day. The one I saw at the thrift shop was in good condition externally, light plastic camera. I did not actually pay much attention to it as the basket was full of similar models. I am not going to purchase it however. I am not sure I am even going to shoot any 35mm any longer in the interest of economy. I have a Medium Format interest these days and my budget for photography is consumed with that camera. I like Arista 400 in 120 format. I just figure my cell phone is my compact camera. I have 3 Nikon 35mm camera's currently and in a year if they are still sitting I will get rid of 2 of them and keep the FM2n around in case I change my mind sometime.

[Mike Gammill]

Just wishful thinking, I suppose,but I'd like to see a 127 camera even though the production of 127 is mainly slitting of 120. I'd like a folding fixed lens rangefinder with mechanical shutter speeds from 1 to 1/500 plus B. The lens would be a Tessar-like 4 element of f 3.5. Modern counter instead of 'ye ole red window".

Back in the early 1960's (or maybe late 50's) a photo magazine writer called 127 the "format of the future".

[mwmcbroom]

Of the Sure Shots, I prefer the AF35ML, aka the Super Sure Shot, with its fast, five-element f/1.9 40mm lens. I've owned my copy for going on 27 years now. It's a great little all-around shooter and is capable of quite impressive results. My biggest complaint about it is that, when using the flash, it tends to blow out the highlights at closer distances. One of the things I really like about it is it isn't a plastic camera. It has a metal frame and metal skin. Has some heft to it. Clean copies sell on eBay for more than a lot of SLRs do -- which indicates its popularity.

[Rick Helmke]

I found in a drawer today a Pentax IQ zoom 35mm camera. It's not complicated and frankly looks cheap but the lens is excellent. It's very good for a compact film camera, more versatility than I would have expected.

 

Rick H.

[Mike Gammill]

Pentax made some great compact AF cameras for several years. Like others manufactures, they got into the focal length race and started producing P&S cameras with ridiculously long zooms (one was a 48-200). While Pentax certainly produced some of the better long lens models, they were so large that the difference between one and a compact SLR wasn't much. And the f11 to f12 max aperture at maximum zoom required fast film. In defense of Pentax, though, even the compact models often had a full range of features. I'd still be tempted to buy a used IQ zoom if I found one in good condition.

[charles_stobbs3]

A good 35mm camera with a fixed 28mm lens is the Konica Off Road. Made for a construction workers toolbox, these cameras have a rugged body and have auto exposure and focus. Konica has a reputation for good lenses and mine did not disappoint. There were several versions over the years of its production. Good for hiking and skiing.

[donbright]

Fougettaboudit! Nikon FM3a. Sure, a little tongue and cheek here, but its true. New? No, High Quality? None better! Take a look, a serious look at the FM3a.

[Richard Williams]

Found over on Talk Photography:

 

Actual new 35mm AF compact coming

Campaign Results LIVE release for #SaveAnalogCameras - Cameraventures.com

[Richard Williams]

Hunt enjoys entertaining his site's followers and selling them stuff. I don't take him especially seriously on this or any other matter. Film camera sales were fading nearly 15 years ago and went over the falls just a few years later. I doubt there would be lineups to buy a $1000+ film compact when the Fuji X100T goes about the same price. The stuff of dreams...

 

It looks like he's doing more than dreaming - Bellamy Hunt is the man behind this latest project:

 

Exclusive: Japan Camera Hunter talks to EMULSIVE about his new 35mm compact camera project | Articles, Film Culture, News | EMULSIVE

 

"What I can say is that the camera will be a premium compact and have a build quality, lens character and set of features to suit. It’ll hopefully be of a metal body design and will definitely come with manual ISO selection ... I want to mix and match the best features of compact premium point and shoots from Contax, Minolta, Ricoh and others. Things like custom modes / user profiles, some form of fixed-focus mode and definitely no auto-on flash are really important to me ... We are tentatively planning for having a camera and app ready for testing in late 2018 but that’s a timescale based on our current knowledge of the challenges ahead."

[c_watson1]

It looks like he's doing more than dreaming - Bellamy Hunt is the man behind this latest project:

 

Exclusive: Japan Camera Hunter talks to EMULSIVE about his new 35mm compact camera project | Articles, Film Culture, News | EMULSIVE

 

"What I can say is that the camera will be a premium compact and have a build quality, lens character and set of features to suit. It’ll hopefully be of a metal body design and will definitely come with manual ISO selection ... I want to mix and match the best features of compact premium point and shoots from Contax, Minolta, Ricoh and others. Things like custom modes / user profiles, some form of fixed-focus mode and definitely no auto-on flash are really important to me ... We are tentatively planning for having a camera and app ready for testing in late 2018 but that’s a timescale based on our current knowledge of the challenges ahead."

 

Like I said, a crack attention-grabber. We'll see but I'm skeptical about his grasp of realistic demand for a camera that won't come cheap. High-end compacts were sales duds back in the day, so how have matters improved since then? But if he can secure a small patch of a niche market, good for him.

[Richard Williams]

Easy enough to gauge the demand nowadays - put it on Kickstarter or Indiegogo (like the new 'Yashica' thing) and see what response you get. He doesn't have to sell a million of them - rapid prototyping to generate interest and small to medium scale production runs to fulfill whatever demand there is are much more accessible now than they were 20 years ago.

[c_watson1]

Think he actually has to deliver a bit more than gush and musings about the product before Kickstarter. That's going to require $$$ and expertise(more $$$) that's not apparently at hand. Curious to see what the Yashica brand teasers lead to beyond a wan model waving around an Electro 35. Looks like they took a inspiration from Nikon's videos for the dud Df. Edited September 25, 2017 by c_watson|1

[peter_tucker2]

Maybe manufacturers are reluctant to launch a new high-quality 35mm film camera because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that a lot of photographers think that only medium format film is going to deliver better picture quality than the currently available digital cameras (excluding possibly the medium format ones). Even so, Fuji launched a new MF film camera in 2008, when digital had already captured virtually all the market, but its production lasted only six years. So, could it be mainly cold feet on the manufacturers' part about designing and building a camera that will probably only sell in relatively small numbers and involve quite a large investment?

 

I wouldn't have thought this with us losing film stocks at the rate we were a few years ago, but I think it's time (I hope it's time) for a manufacturer to produce a new high quality compact fixed-lens camera. My reasoning?

 

Read this article first about the current state of the film industry. It's very comprehensive and informative:

 

https://www.zorkiphoto.co.uk/2017/02/2017-the-year-that-film-returned/

 

Right now, the only 35mm cameras that are available new are the Nikon F6 and FM10, Leica M7, Voigtlander Bessa, and then a bunch of sub-standard toy cameras.

 

There are obviously a ton of used 35mm compacts on the market of varying quality. If one wants a 35mm compact, it could be found at a thrift store, flea market, etc. The vast majority of these cameras are of dubious quality, questionable funcitonality due to age of electronics, and are going to be mostly automatic.

 

There has been a big demand over the past decade for compacts with manual functionality and high quality lenses and it has increased significantly over the past few years. Here are some examples and their correponding price ranges on eBay:

 

Contax T, T2, T3 (Zeiss lenses) $400 - $1000

Rollei 35s (Zeiss lens) $100 - $300

Ricoh GR series (Zeiss lenses) $400 - $800

Yashica T4 $300 - $500 (Zeiss lens)

 

and then there are some recent cameras that sell above new price and are very desirable now:

 

Fujifilm Natura S $500 - $1000

Fujifilm Klasse W $500 - $1000

 

These are just a few examples. It is clear that pros, serious amateurs, students, and young amateurs are seeking out these cameras based on the talk that I have seen in photography forums and blogs.

 

The demand is so high for these cameras right now that even though the prominent electronic issues of the Ricoh GR series (which cannot be repaired easily or by the manufacturer) are overlooked for the chance (gamble) that a good one can be found that will last..... at $500+ a pop.

 

I think it's obvious that there is a market right now for a high quality compact camera. What should be the functionality and form of this camera?

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

1. Fast, high-quality, fixed, wide-angle lens. The Zeiss T* Sonnar 38mm / f2.8 would be a great choice, and is an extremely popular choice on used cameras. Perhaps a 28mm would be even better based on the popularity of that focal length on M mount rangefinders. This is the critical component... this is the feature that has people clamoring for compact cameras.

 

2. Manual ISO. This is an under-discussed issue that is becoming crucial based on the loss of fast films. We've lost multiple 400 speed films over the past decade. Most color films are 50 or 100ASA and it's important for a camera to have auto-iso to enable push processing.

 

3. Manual Aperture. One frustration that people have with the older cameras mentioned above is the difficult or non-existent ability to manually adjust aperture. If you say it can't be done on a small camera, look at the Contax T, which is one of the smallest 35mm cameras every created (which has a manual aperture and manual iso on a Zeiss 38mm lens!).

 

4. Aperture Priority. A feature used by many street photographers.

 

5. TTL Flash

 

6. Large viewfinder that displays shutter speed.

 

7. Metering. While center weighted metering is a must, a matrix meter like that of the Nikon 35ti would be fantastic.

 

8. Tough metal body.

 

Regarding focus, which is better? The Leica crowd shoots manual focus on the street by default. Everyone expect auto-focus on a compact, but zone focusing or manual focusing ensures that you won't miss a shot based on hunting auto-focus or auto-focus that samples on the wrong area.

 

Price point. This is clearly a $750 - $1200 camera. If the camera were reliable, produced by a well-known and trusted manufacturer and was created with high-quality components, I don't think there would be price resistance. I think everyone looking to buy one of these used compacts would give this strong consideration.

 

I'm looking forward to your feedback!

[c_watson1]

Maybe manufacturers are reluctant to launch a new high-quality 35mm film camera because they believe (rightly or wrongly) that a lot of photographers think that only medium format film is going to deliver better picture quality than the currently available digital cameras (excluding possibly the medium format ones). Even so, Fuji launched a new MF film camera in 2008, when digital had already captured virtually all the market, but its production lasted only six years. So, could it be mainly cold feet on the manufacturers' part about designing and building a camera that will probably only sell in relatively small numbers and involve quite a large investment?

 

Bingo! There's just not enough $$$ in producing a new 35mm compact. FYI the Fuji GF670 medium format folder went for US$1800 early this year when B&H sold off the remaining stock.

[Richard Williams]

Shooting film often isn't really about picture quality these days, at least not in the 'lines per mm' sense, With 24MP sensors even in cheap dSLRs, digital won that argument for most practical purposes quite some time ago. People shoot film because they like the look of it. The things a the previous generation of photographers spent a lot of effort minimising - visible grain, unusual colour palettes, even light leaks - are often exactly what a film shooter is looking for. Everyone already has a digital camera in their pocket. If they're going to shoot film, they want it to have a bit of 'character' that differentiates it from the billions of smartphone images everyone else is sharing.

 

I'm not surprised that the big camera companies have no enthusiasm for new film cameras - the days of million selling P&S cameras are long gone. But I wouldn't bet heavily against someone else producing something for a niche market. A 35mm camera isn't exactly rocket science, after all. I might go as far as betting a roll of Ektar on Mr Hunt coming up with a prototype.

[c_watson1]

Then there's this bit of blue sky:

 

22 Years Since The Last Manual Film SLR, Reflex Could Change That

[Richard Williams]

Well, they seem to have taken my comment about light leaks on board :-)

[john_robison4]

Then there's this bit of blue sky:

 

22 Years Since The Last Manual Film SLR, Reflex Could Change That

"Details....... are scarce..."

I would call that a huge understatement.

And Kickstarter? Lets see, collect a few hundred thousand dollars from 'backers' (What precisely is a 'backer', from their often strident demands in the comments section of these Kickstarter projects, they certainly don't know.) .

Offer pie in the sky promises on product and delivery times for the 'Rewards'.

Reluctantly post empty 'updates' about unexpected delays in the project.

Finally, after the whole thing goes down in flames the project 'creators' disconnect from all contact with the backers and try to disappear.

[Richard Williams]

The mysterious Yashica turns out to be a basic digital with a couple of deeply silly faux analogue gimmicks:

Expect the Unexpected. digiFilm™ Camera by YASHICA