Moving up from CLE to M6?

[randy_jackson]

With the understanding that the decision is ultimately mine

alone, I was hoping for people's thoughts and experience on my

rangefinder conundrum.

<p>

I currently have a Minolta CLE and Rokkor 40mm f2, which I have

REALLY enjoyed using over the past year (it has replaced my

Nikon AF SLR/Pentax MX 75% of the time). I seem to have been

bitten by the bug (quite severely, I think) to save/sell existing/put

on credit (you get the idea) and get myself an M6 - probably TTL

and either a 50 or 35 for starters. An M7 is just way too pricey. I

have played with a demo at a local camera store (National

Camera in Minneapolis) a couple of times and am trying to talk

myself into or out of the big jump. I don't believe renting one

locally is possible.

<p>

I am used to an all manual camera (my MX) and not too worried

about the transition from the CLE's AE to an M6, although I do

believe that only practice will enable me to fluidly focus and

adjust for exposure. Also, I like the idea of having to think more

about the shot. My biggest concern is that I shoot my little kids

almost exclusively, and the AE does help. Has anyone found this

a frustrating step backwards?

<p>

My CLE works great right now, but I've read enough about their

age and potential problems to be worried about its durability.

<p>

For those who have experience with both, would you have found

the step up to Leica "worth it" from a CLE? I know all this is very

subjective, but I'm fishing for people's hands on experience.

Sorry for the long post. Thanks

<p>

Randy

[Alex_Es]

Randy!

 

Don't see your CLE! If there is nothing wrong with it keep it. There will always be M6s; CLEs are another story. I have two. The first I bought in 1985 and it is still functional. Occationally the meter lights start to act funny, but I just give it a slap and all is well. This has been going on for years and years. My second CLE is perfect.

 

I too expected my first little camera to give out. It might outlive me. The second I know will outlive me!

 

If you are happy with this camera keep it. Save a little longer and get your M6. The two cameras will make great companions.

 

--Alex

[Alex_Es]

Opps!

 

That should be "Don't sell your CLE." I accidentally hit the Confirm button.

[al_kaplan1]

It's a great move! As for the kids, take a couple readings in the area, and then change aperture with a finger tip as the kids move around. Don't even try to zero every exposure. Pretty soon it becomes second nature. I'd suggest a 90 for starters since you can still use your CLE with a 40 when you need wider.

[bert_keuken2]

<i>I shoot my little kids almost exclusively, and the AE does help.</i>

<p>

To put things into perspective read (if you haven't already done so) Kick Tuck's way of setting exposure with his Leica's (tanned back of his hand). AE has disadvantages too.

<p>

 

Kirk Tuck's review: http://www.photo.net/leica/m6.html

<p>

As for long term reliability it may be wise to hop over the fence to the Leica side. Minolta will not be able to make repairs to your CLE because the spare parts are simply not available. Leica or an independent repair shop will be able to service your Leica M for years from now. Sell your still functioning CLE now and buy a nice M6. If the CLE breaks down it won't be worth what it is now.. Mind you, take the Rokkor 40mm with you when you do make the jump, people say it's a stunning performer. This way you won't be needing a 35mm or 50mm.

[harry_soletsky1]

As one who uses both cameras they are both fine but the M6 is, I believe more of a workhorse. The CLE is lighter, the rangefinder not as good but the camera is signifigantly smaller. I find the CLE is more of camera to carry around for photographs when picture taking will not be my primary undertaking at the time. With the 40mm Summicron and the 100mm f3.5 Canon, it's quite a light, small outfit. I would keep both as a working CLE is not that easy to find and repairs are a problem.

[vuk_vuksanovic]

I had a CL (not quite the same, but close enough) and sold it when I acquired an M6. In hindsight, it was a big mistake. Not only do I regularly miss having a second "M" body, there are times I just want something smaller and lighter to carry around. Given that the CLE is an even better camera than what I got rid of, you could possibly be making an even bigger mistake ;-)

[douglas_green1]

The CLE is simply the most versatile, advanced M-mount camera ever made.

[roger_michel]

the cle is a fabulous camera. if i could find one that was reliable

i'd use it all the time. if you have one, don't even consider a

move. if leica announced a new cle tomorrow, i'd trade my m7 in

a flash. it is truly one of the all time best.

[andrew_schank]

You are not going to see an improvement in your photography by making a change to an M6 system, but your wallet will be lighter. Why not wait for the CLE to die before replacing it!

[stevierose]

I have owned both cameras. I sold my M6, but still have the CLE. Your photographs will be no better with an M6. I would suggest that you get CV 28/3.5 and 90 mm lenses to flesh out your CLE kit and stick with the CLE. If it dies, you can always get an M6 or find another CLE! It 's a great camera.

[gerry_rosen]

I have owned an M6, M5, CLE and CL. I sold the M6 and the M5

gets used rarely. I usually travel with color in the CLE and black

and white in the CL and 28, 40 and 90 lenses, using a CV 28

viewfinder on the CL. I love my CLE and dread the day that it

needs repair. I agree with the poster who said it would not be an

upgrade so enjoy your camera and worry about what to do if and

when the CLE gives trouble.

[Jeffrey L.T. von Glück]

Hang on to the CLE and save up for an M6. When the CLE dies--assuming you can't have it repaired--give it a respectful burial but hang on to the lenses. I routinely use an M2, M6 and CLE. The CLE is remarkably compact--as you know--and makes for unobtrusive shooting. It doesn't look like a pro camera, other people think it's a cheap P&S. That said, you'll definitely like shooting with any M, though I'd shy away from the M7 since your CLE fits that bill.

[mark_b.]

I use the CLE for my young kids too. Keep it, use it, and enjoy it! Buy a wider lens if you'd really like, but the 40mm Rokkor is pretty versatile. In terms of repairs, Joel Matherson on this forum is a strong proponet of the CLE and will probably chime in here eventually, he says the CLE's are still repairable in Japan. See this past thread: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=004TCf

[roger_michel]

is there anybody who repairs cles anymore?? needless to say,

sherry, dag, and focal point won't touch them. is it worth buying

old cognate minoltas to scavenge for parts??

[Robin Smith]

I think you would enjoy the transition to say an M, but as others say you should really keep your CLE. I have to say that I would never pick an M as the camera of choice for photography of young children. For that an SLR is much superior. Of course it can be done, but it is much easier with a reflex. Nothing to do with AE, it is the focussing that is the difficult part.

[Alex_Es]

Check Stephen Gandy's Cameraquest site for information on CLE repairs. The CLE shares parts with Minolta SLRs made at the time. Again: I've been anticipating my first CLE's death since 1985 and its still around. My seond body, which I bought used for exactly twice the price of the first body, is as healthy as a new camera. I got the second body in 1999.

 

If your CLE dies after serving you for two decades you are still a winner. And don't give it a decent (or indecent) burial. Save it for spare parts.

 

And if anyone is interested (everyone is, right?) I took my second CLE out for a spin in Osaka today. Nothing wrong with this not young camera. It's a real Mrs. Robinson.

[joel_matherson]

I am a fan of the CLE to be sure. But the cameras were never designed to go head to head with M series but simply offer a lighter and more compact alternative. If you want to start using fast Leica tele lenses then by all means I would suggest an M but if you need something a bit smaller lighter, conventional loading and faster AE then the CLE is for you. As many others suggest I would hang onto your CLE and use it to compliment any M purchase in the future.

 

As for repairs and spares often mentioned on this forum being a problem, I havent found any difficulties at all. Firstly the cameras are very reliable actually. You rarely see any offerred as spares unlike CL's which you see offered as parts quite often. It is because the electronics are very reliable in these cameras. (Especially by Leica electronic standards) Eratic meter readings from my experience are corrected after a service, with dust and general build up underneath the shutter dial being properly cleaned. If major work is required I simply get my local Minolta repairers to ship it to Minolta Japan (But you have to pay the shipping costs upfront). In Japan these cameras seem to have virtual cult status. The camera store I once worked for where I still have contacts tell me how any CLE's or their lenses that come up for sale are snapped up by buyers in Japan who by over the phone without even seeing the cameras, with the Australian dollar worthless against anything but an Antartic sheckle good buys are to be had. But the factory still has trained staff that cater for the XD/XG/CLE days. The whole parts/repair problem with the cameras arises from the manner in which Minolta used to (and probably still does) contract out most of its repair work. A contractor was trained and stocked with spares for the CLE and other cameras of similar vintage. When a new generation of camera are released more often than not a new contractor is found as the old contractor doesnt like the new financial arrangements or simply doesnt want to get buried in the new technology. So when the Dynax/Maxim system was released the old XG/CLE repairer was passed over and the parts and knowledge were never passed on. This accounts for the lack of knowledgable repairers for the CLE. Spare parts are out there collecting dust on the shelves of these old repairers! In the past 12 months I have purchased new just about ever CLE part needed but have yet to use any of it. If I can I will help anyone on the forum to aquire what they need please email me. Top covers are the hardest thing but I have even picked up even one of those. Based on the prices of some of the parts like the shutter assembly, its more a question if its worth getting another CLE body for the money rather than going to all the trouble of replacement. Your non functional CLE will still get you a few bucks on that popular auction site. CL's for me are similar for repairs and parts. Any major repairs I have to send to Germany and the cost generally outweighs the value of the camera in simply buying another.

 

One other thing I will voice my opinion on is the often touted "buy an XG SLR for parts" solution. Having the parts laid out and an XG-1 in hand I must say that hardly anything is interchangable. The electronics are virtually one piece with the meter cell at one end and meter readout at the other. XG's meter differently, there is no off the film plane sensor. Shutter assemblies are complete units with many intricate cogs and gears and well as a speckled curtain for metering. XG's are designed for reflex systems and plain back curtains. On/off/Selftimer switches, totally different location. Even the shutter dial which looks basic Minolta is actualy thinner on a CLE. None of the panels are the same and the back is unique. Im pretty sure that the red self timer/battery check reflector are the same! Bottom line is dont waist your money on an XG SLR for spares unless its a givaway. Hope this is helpful.

[graham_line]

Very helpful information, Joel. All my CLE has needed is an occasional cleaning, the last over two years ago. I've found a skilled technician at a local shop here in Portland, OR, who's comfortable working on it. The M6 and CLE are very different; it's a matter of which is most applicable to a particular situation. If I added an M6, it would be one of the higher magnification models to get me into longer, faster lenses with more confidence. If I was mostly shooting groups of kids, I'd probably add a 28 or 21 to the CLE and be done with it.