Sony a99 full frame SLT. Who's excited?

[david_smith110]

<p>I know I am. But my budget does not allow for the purchase of this when it hits in a few weeks/months. I personally believe this thing is gonna be a beast. Basically an a77 with a full frame sensor. Mmmmmmm...</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-more-a99-and-nex-and-lens-rumor-bits-from-thailand/">http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr4-more-a99-and-nex-and-lens-rumor-bits-from-thailand/</a></p>

<p>Anyone gonna grab this when it comes out?</p>

[craigd]

<p>Another link to a rumors site...</p>

<p>I'm not excited until there's an official announcement from Sony. And maybe not even then. I'll want to see specs, a price tag, and hands-on reviews first.</p>

<p>Now, a full-frame NEX... <em>that</em> would be interesting.</p>

[gregory_king1]

Not excited at all. If I wanted a camera with no onboard flash and an ISO hot shoe, I'd buy a Nikon. Duh.

 

 

Just got the A77 on sale, and only used the onboard flash about half the shots today. Most of the rest, I used a flash I could remove with

one hand.

 

 

The novelty of the SLT works best being novel. Trying to make it compete on similarity with the competition is about as stupid as you

can get.

[james_f6]

<p>Yeah I am, but not like I was. I just got the Sony A65. Could not justify the cost of the A77, thinking I would start saving for the A99 (which I still will do.) <br>

I have a KM 7D, Sony A700, Sony A65 now, it will do for me for some time to come. I love the A65, getting used the the smaller size is slowly becoming a plus for me, after having the beefy KM 7D and Sony A700.<br>

All I know that in Australia (where I live) unless I purchase grey market, we usually get ripped off in prices. FYI I saved $600 buying grey market for my Sony A65 (body only).<br>

I imagine even though our dollar lately is better than the U.S dollar, it will still cost about $1000 more here.</p>

[james_f6]

<p>FYI, for Sony to compete in the market with full frame, they have to get the basics right.</p>

<ul>

<li>Great Pictures</li>

<li>Fast Auto focus and image capture</li>

<li>Bugger all noise at high ISO (seems critical in any review these days)</li>

<li>Built like a tank for the pro's</li>

</ul>

<p>Bottom line, the bells and whistles are nice. But these days if a reviewer just mentions bad noise at higher ISO's that alone seems to kill off any challenge for whatever reason.</p>

 

[ricardovaste]

<p>Errrr.... no, not excited. A full-frame a77 would not interest me, as I don't really like that camera. If they build upon the strengths of the a900 and refine them, then they could be in with a winner, but the fact that they're going EVF sends mixed messages. Recent rumor of a locking button on the mode dial suggest they perhaps listen to the smaller things that make a big difference, but we shall have to wait and see. Eitherway, my bodies have low miles and meet my needs, so it's not something I'll be interested in.</p>

<p>As I have a system that works for me I'm happy to sit back and let the SLT/EVF debate thin out a little. See how they turn out, how they can improve them.</p>

[carbon_dragon]

<p>The NEX-7's EVF is very impressive. And it gives you capabilities you don't have in an optical viewfinder like a bright screen with depth of field shown and focus assistance in the form of focus peaking. Compares very well with good optical viewfinders.</p>

[timb196]

<p>Well, I am planning on buying one. The real question for me is whether I wait to see ifa 36MP variant appears. I have a trip planned to Myanmar next year so I have time and, as friend Richard points out, the current a900/a700 combo works pretty damn well.<br>

The noise issue seems overrated IMO. I judge by the print and I have been able to produce fine 3200 prints from both cameras and as of late I have been using my Nex 5n as a sort of low light substitute..<br>

AF on the a900 at the center point works pretty well. The a900 weaknes lies in the outer focus points so I will expect that the a99 well address that issue.<br>

So I look forward to this thing. Will be the first on my block to own one, probably not, but I have no reason at this time to assume it will not be in my bag within a year.</p>

<p>Cheers<br>

Tim</p>

 

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Not because I don't want an SLT. I like the SLR much better.</p>

[james_f6]

<p>I don't think SLT is an issue. SLT usually means EVF.<br>

In many ways it helps once you get used to it. Because using the EVF you can see in the viewfinder close to what you get in the image. This is shown more so when in high contrast area's.<br>

The proof is in the pudding, and so far the SLT images are excellent and on par with any other maker.<br>

I think you will find that the future is mirror-less camera's, less moving parts, faster shutter speeds.<br>

Other makers will start with their smaller camera's, but eventually they will be moving to mirror-less for the DSLR camera's. It's sort of common sense and part of the evolution of the camera. <br>

Just look at the evolution of the camera. Times are changing.</p>

[paul_de_ley]

<p>Well let's see it materialize first and then let's see what the (credible) first reviews are like. Rumored specs seem fantastic, but if the firmware isn't stable yet then Sony might be in for a repeat of the a77's initial release foibles.</p>

[timb196]

<p>Paul:<br />Point well taken on the firmware! With due respect, Canon and Nikon seem to have problems in this regard also. The other thingI'd like to see Sony do is to make rental stuff like the 500mm available to dealers and start down the road to some form of professional support organization.<br>

That being said and I do not see the latter occurring with the a99 release, I still plan on being in the market for it becuase of the Myanmar trip (along with a Think Tank Shape Shifter backpack).<br>

I will admit the SAR rumors have me midly excited especially the one today :-). I genuinely prefer FF over APS-C but I'm getting more and more into travelling with the a900 as a primary camera and the Nex-5n as a backup/lightweight rig. On some of these foreign travels, you can be really limited with total weight so one needs flexibility.<br>

The issue of EVF versus OVF is really not much of factor(if at all to me) as I routinely switch systems for a given event. It is always interesting to go from something like the a900 to a 4 x 5 field camera:-) and wait for my brain to make the transformation<br>

Anyway Cheers to all<br>

Tim</p>

[scottelly]

<p>24 megapixels?!? WTF? Sony has been a leader in the megapixel race, and just when Nikon introduces an amazing 36 megapixel beast, they pull back and introduce a new camera that shoots a the same resolution as their 5 year old A900? I don't get it.</p>

<p>I WOULD buy it, if it were 36 or 40 megapixels. There is no reason it can't be 50 megapixels, except that Sony is playing some B.S. waiting game. Yes, I said 50 megapixels. The sensor is twice the size of the old 24 megapixel A77 sensor (APS-C), and in the past year they have surely made enough improvement in their technology to move from a 24 megapixel APS-C sensor to a 25 megapixel APS-C sensor without any noticeable difference in image quality, so they could make a full-frame sensor with twice that, and it would not only perform as well in the noise department, but it would produce an amazingly clear picture. Oh, and don't try to say they couldn't double up on the processors, with a new, larger battery, and give us the same speed as the A77. It has two memory card slots! If one is a CF card slot and one is the new XQD slot, then Sony may truly call themselves a maker of PROFESSIONAL cameras. (This is presuming that is is well sealed and all else is equal to the A77, but with the high-speed shooting focus tracking capability of the A57.) The focus peaking of the NEX7 would be a great addition too.</p>

<p>Too bad we will have to wait for a truly high resolution camera. This waiting is pissing me off. I might just get an A65 and be done with it.</p>

[scottelly]

<p>Sony needs to make more lenses! At least we can use Sigma lenses on Sony cameras. I'm surprised that Sony hasn't introduced some stellar f1 lenses (f1.0 or maybe even f.95). A Zeiss 80mm f1.0 would be so cool. So would a 45mm f.95 G lens. I really wish they would produce a lens as good as the Nikon 14-24mm f2.8 G lens, instead of just shooting for the Canon 16-35mm f2.8. THAT lens doesn't make much sense, unless they were to make a 35-135mm f4 G to go with it. THAT would make my day!</p>

[scottelly]

<p>A 35-105mm f2.8 G might be even better . . . if it is weather sealed. Unfortunately though, the 16-35mm f2.8 G is NOT weather sealed, as far as I can tell. I guess it might make sense to update it or produce a 14-24mm f2.8 G with even better specs and weather seals. Unfortunately, Sony decided to NOT weather seal their lenses, until lately, so even their amazing Zeiss 24-70mm f2.8 is not weather sealed. That makes me want to just buy an A65 and a Nikon D800, rather than following one system. I can put a Tokina 10-17mm fisheye on a Nikon anyway. There is nothing like that lens for Sony.</p>

<p>It's sad.</p>

<p>This new memory card would make a lot of sense for a high-speed 50 megapixel camera:<br>

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/880144-REG/Sony_qds32_t_32GB_XQD_Memory_Card.html</p>

<p>Sony differentiates their cameras by placing a high-resolution fold-out screen on their cameras. They used to be in the megapixel race, and I thought they still were. The A77 was a leader in the APS-C class (and still is), but if they introduce ANOTHER full-frame camera that is just 24 megapixels, I will be disappointed . . . even if it has a bigger, 5 megapixel viewfinder and focus peaking and a full 1080x1920 3.5 inch fold-out screen and is the only fast-focusing full-frame digital camera that shoots at 1080p60.</p>

<p>IT NEEDS MORE MEGAPIXELS!</p>

[james_f6]

<p>The age of the Megapixel race is over, it was over when camera makers released 12mp camera.<br>

Anything above that you are talking about a very small group of people that need higher MP for there type of work.<br>

High MP these days is pure marketing than anything else.</p>

[david_smith110]

<p>Some very interesting responses here. SLT good, SLT no good. EVF bad, EVF not so bad. "Only 24 mp?? No Way!" and "Dont forget firmware!"</p>

<p>Its really neat to see how diverse photographers are as a group and how we view the tools we use.</p>

<p>I firmly agree with you James. The megapixel race, for all intents and purposes, is over. Yes higher MP cameras will be released, but not with the ferocious need that there was in the past. We have reached a point with image resolution where anything more is infinitesimal gains. What I am hoping for is that Sony did there homework here and made this a super <em>clean</em> 24 mp camera. There is no excuse in this day and age for a manufacturer to overlook noise.</p>

<p>As for the state of the art in general? DSLR's are on the way out, Nikon and Canon just dont know it yet. SLT's are the final design improvement of the the wonderful camera Contax brought us back in the middle of the last century. But I believe even Sony knows these big bulky camera are dinosaurs in the modern world. Mirrorless cameras are the future, hands down. EVF tech is better and better everyday. People railed against AF, then they railed against Digital, and now they rail against EVF's. The adopters will survive and prosper and those who dont adopt will become a niche, as film is now. Except that I dont see a <em>design</em> becoming as much of a niche as a <em>medium</em> became. Unless your talking about Rangefinders, and isnt that what a lot of the mirrorless cameras look like, especially the NEX 7?</p>

<p>This is all one mans opinion of course, so no need to agree with it. But can you imagine if Canon introduced a small NEX sized magnesium bodied mini 1D series professional weather sealed mirror less camera? And a new, snazzed up line up smaller EOS lenses to go with it? With an EVF that blows the mind?</p>

<p>Instead we get the EOS M.</p>

<p>Oh well, if you dont innovate you die. Sony is innovating. Most others are not. That explains a healthy market share gained rather quickly. I agree with those who brought up the professional network however. Sony has the technology and forward thinking to succeed but if they dont get serious about professional photographers then I question their long term viability as a major player. Its a sea of Canons and Nikons at the Olympics. Where are you Sony? Where are the weather sealed lenses? Where is the professional NEX body?</p>

<p>As for SAR being just another rumor site, they have a pretty good history of hitting it out of the park with 'predictions'. There is quite a bit of talk about SAR being Sonys 'unofficial' rumor release network. But then I guess if you believe that you should be looking out the window for black helicopters.</p>

<p>Good discussion everyone.</p>

[scottelly]

<p>David, maybe we SHOULD be looking out the window for black helicopters.<br>

http://www.prisonplanet.com/tsa-now-occupy-ca-train-stations-bus-terminals.html</p>

[timb196]

<p>Well; the follwoing might be of interest<br>

<a href="http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/whats-the-strategy-behind-the-a99-via-top-sources/#comments">http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/whats-the-strategy-behind-the-a99-via-top-sources/#comments</a><br>

I had surmised that Sony was well on the path of synthesizing still photography with videography and the a99 seems to be a significant step in that direction.<br>

Now I'm not much of a videographer but this appeals to me because of late I have been getting into some multimedia presentations and the ability to capture both stills and video in a single machine is attractive. I'm going to Myanmar next year and I was debating holding off until the rumored 36mp showed up but this has got me thinking. Especially if it allows you to extract or take a still in the middle of a video. So my degree of excitement has gone up somewhat.<br>

Cheers<br>

Tim</p>

[scottelly]

<p>Thanks Tim.</p>

<p>With regard to that article, I think Sony would make great strides, if they were to introduce a 50mm f1.0 lens that is really good (and weather sealed), for a reasonable price ($1,500), and then introduce a new $1,500 full-frame camera with live-view and 1080p60 video. The full-frame sensors do NOT cost that much. They can use the old design and just make use of them in a new body, with new electronics, comparable to the A65 electronics, but in a bigger package. WAY more people will buy it, if they make it at that price point. The Sony advantage really shines, when prime lenses are put on the camera. Sony needs to educate people more about that. Every Canon and Nikon photographer who shoots with prime lenses should be thinking about switching right now.</p>

[james_f6]

<p>If you want a high end full frame Sony Camera, buy the Nikon D800, which uses that nice Sony 34mp sensor :)</p>

[timb196]

<p>Scott:<br>

I get the notion as does Nikon clearly about 2 price points for FF. I think there are multiple dynamics that enter into the picture though. First and foremost for what I do, 5 Fps is about as low as I want to go. 3-4 FPS generally will not hack it. Secondly, the other thing that most manufacturers do in reducing cost is to eliminate things like weather sealing and detuning the AF module. I' pretty sure I don't want a detuned AF module. Yeah I suppose you could eliminate or detune the video function but then I think Sony would be making a pretty big marketing mistake.<br>

I do a fair amount of travelling and come across some pretty hostile environments. I've had my Minolta/Sony cameras in everything from -20 to +120 deg F and over 14,000 feet. They've been in snow, rain etc. Sometimes they get banged around pretty good regardless of what protection I give them.<br>

So the degree of ruggedness is important to me. Personally I don't think you can build a FFcamera and sell it with a reasonable degree of protection and profit margin at $1500 without making substantial sacrifices elsewhere.<br>

Yeah, I hear you about a F1.0 lens but frankly I would rather have a an F1.4 lens that had really good sharpness across the frame and was weather sealed. Hell I have enough trouble with DOF on my 85/1.4, never mind 1.0. I always had the feeling that 1.0 or so lens were a little bit of a fad or at least highly specialized lenses.<br>

If the a99 comes in at $2500-2800 with all of these type bases covered then I'll be ok with it. Systems are by nature always a compromise but for me I need to understand what the minimums I'm willing to except are. However, $8K is not where I'm willing to go unless I can figure out a way to amortize it<br>

I would love to see a 17mm/2.8 fully rectinlinear lens and I would love to see an equivalent to the old Minolta MD 35mm/VFC as I would probably get more use out of those .</p>

<p>The analogy on this cost thing that comes to mind is hiking gear. When I first got into all of that stuff, I'd buy cheap stuff as the costs for the good stuff seemed to be outrageous. Then I started to discover that the cheap stuff didn't hold togther, didn't work at the envelope edges so I started buying good stuff. You know things like boots that didn't turn my feet into a sea of blisters the first I wore them.</p>

<p>Maybe a lot of us do not require all of this "additional stuff" and the lower price point works fine. Great! I think Sony can do that but I think if this is going to be your flagship showing you can build a camera "for all seasons" as it were, then it is not unreasonable to say that it will be priced somewhat higher. I just think there needs to be more to it than just how cheap can I make it.<br>

Anyway thanks....a useful discussion<br>

tim</p>

 

[scottelly]

<p>Well Tim, I am suggesting they make an A95 and an A97 to go with their A99. Just like the A65, compared to the A77, the A95 could be 2/3 the price of the A99, which will no doubt be approximately 2,799 street price, before long (though probably $2,995 to start). That would make the A95 $1,799 after a few months. THAT would bring MANY photographers into the fold. And YES, they COULD make a camera, just like the A65, but with a little larger sensor (full-frame). It could have the exact same everything that the A65 has, except it could have a little larger format and sensor. The sensor would be the bulk of the extra money. The extra $800 would be maybe $600 extra for the bigger sensor, and about $200 for the extra size. I don't see how that couldn't work out, frankly. It could shoot at the exact same speed as the A65, because it would have the exact same electronics in it, since both cameras would be 24 MP. Later on they could introduce the A97, which would shoot at 10 fps still, but have a little more enhanced features, and some of the improvements that the A99 has. It could be priced so it hits the street at $2,495 and comes down to $2,195 eventually. This way Sony would have cameras at $999, $1,399, $1,799, $2,199, and $2,799 - no more than about 20% extra for the next step up. Amazingly, right now Canon is pricing the 5 D Mk II for just over $2,000 street price. Nikon is not keeping up with Canon in that department. Their older, lower resolution design, with no video capability (D700) is more expensive! Their kit is WAY more expensive than Canon's kit. Dumb move, I think. The Sony A900 and A850 cameras seem to have been discontinued all together! Stupid marketing move, while they have nothing to replace it yet. Why would you EVER let your top-of-the-line cameras be unavailable? If they want professionals to buy their equipment, they can't do stupid stuff like this. If I was a pro, I would not buy a camera from a company that does stuff like this. What if I dropped my camera in a pool? I would need another one right away. I would have to buy a used one. That's great! What if I couldn't find one? What if I wanted a NEW replacement? I could get that with Canon or Nikon. Not with Sony though. Not right now, anyway. There will ALWAYS be someone who wants one of the old cameras, even with new, cheaper pricing for a new model. Why? Because some people just like what they had before. In this case it will be even more so, because the old ones had optical viewfinders, while the new ones have only digital viewfinders. Very silly move, if you ask me.</p>

<p>As far as the 50mm f1.0 lens, I think that it is more of a symbol than anything else. It shows people what they COULD have . . . not what they are likely to have or want. Yes, it would be for very few people. A specialty lens for sure. The Canon 50mm f1.2 is certainly a specialty lens too. After-all, it is very little difference from the image quality of the 50mm f1.4. The main thing is it would be a bragging right. Sony would be the ONLY manufacturer to have such a thing, for a while at least. It is a race. It is always a race. Sony is racing. Canon is racing. Nikon is racing. Pentax is not even on the track. Neither is Olympus. They are in a different race. This race is for the big three. If Sony doesn't want to win, they should just forget about racing completely. If they want to win, they need more and better lenses. They need to beat Nikon and Canon at their own game. Already they have an advantage, with stabilization in their bodies. If they would just add weather seals and a few more stellar lenses (like the Zeiss 135mm f1.8), they could gain on the others. Eventually, they might even win the race.</p>

<p>Instead of the 35mm/VFC you could get one of these Tim:</p>

<p>http://www.dpreview.com/products/schneider/lenses/schneider_pc_28_2p8<br>

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/818356-REG/Schneider_06_1066459_PC_TS_Super_Angulon.html</p>

<p>You could just get a Nikon to Sony adapter and use Nikon lenses Tim.</p>

[james_f6]

<p>I believe Sony will be making 2 full frame camera's. Their pro built model and also there consumer full frame. <br>

The talk of two models being released seems to have stopped of late. I think everyone is just talking about their flagship model A99.</p>

[timb196]

<p>Scott/James:<br>

I do think that Sony will introduce 2 FF by mid 2013; The second is probably going to be the 36mp with ~ 4 fps (similar to the Nikon).<br>

I don't happen to disgree with your discussion, Scott, but I think it has to do more with when these things will happen. Right now a 36mp if it has 4 fps is probably not going to be my cup of tea although initially I was leaning that way. After all 36mp versus 24mp doesn't buy you a whole lot. For the landscape guys and cropping room, maybe but not in terms of sheer resolution.</p>

<p>As for other variants, maybe a 24mp FF SLT with 5 fps, no weather sealing etc at about $1500-1800 might make sense but at that price point it would directly compete with the a77. From a marketing point of view, thats a consideration.<br>

Sony has introduced a speciality lens...the 500mm, which maybe the best in class and supposedly there is the Zeiss 50mm/1.2 coming. If the performance of Zeiss is to be considered, it ought to be stellar.<br>

It looks to me that right now Sony's entry in the race insofar as techology is concerned is focused primarily in their bodies with the odd technology lens thrown in for good measure. Personally if Sony was to expand its horizons, I would like to see it develop a sensor with adapter plates for Hassie and Bronica MF camera's (I happen to have both). If they did that at say 50mp for a price point of $5k, I'd be interested. OTOH if you have a >50mp FF sensor in the pipeline, MF size sensors may be irrelevant.<br>

The other thing they have to do IMO is develop a support organization which they already know how to do in the video world. I have little need to buy a 500mm but renting one is a different kettle of fish. Oh and and throw in an intervalometer feature on the bodies. The little things can make a difference to the serious amateur/semi-pro/pro level. I think they have started down this path with the ISO/Minolta flash shoe adapter as that should help the guys who like to do Pocket Wizard triggers and studio work.<br>

In any case, a useful discussion and I thank all for reading my missives. I hope Sony reads these things!<br>

Tim</p>