Flash Bulbs

[chuck_foreman1]

I recently acquired an Argus C3 Matchmatic and it came with the flash. I was wondering what size flash bulbs were typically used... and

what their european equivalent would be? I guess back in the day like batteries.. there were crossover charts for compaibility issues. I just

want to find some bulbs and shoot the flash off for the nostalgie kick. I don't generally do much flash shooting anyway but I've seen some

links on converting the flash to use synchronized/strobe flash.. ..maybe later, For now I just want to see what bulbs I can get in Europe

that will/might work . Any help offered is appreciated.

[Sandy Vongries]

<p>Believe it was what was called a 5, clear for B&W, 5B (blue for color).</p>

[dhbebb]

<p>Common types were AG1B - small with a rectangular base - and PF1 - clear - and PF1B - blue - witn a round base. PF5 and PF5B are larger versions of PF1. PF stands for Philips Flash - other brands used different code names.</p>

[Keith S in Arizona USA]

<p>Check out your local eBay or other suction sites for bulbs. I have purchased tons of them, different types, for extremely reasonable costs.</p>

<p>Do keep in mind that it is not uncommon to have an occasional "dud" bulb once in a while, depending on age and other factors.</p>

[walter_degroot]

fashe bulns strted in the 30s 40

s and early 50 s as 121 and 22

the 11 was like a 60 watt bulb

the 5 bu;lns use a base like an auto tailhht bulb

with the same base as a household bulb.

 

L there were smallet bulbs with a 3.8" dialmeter base? with a groove

there was a common adapter that ft the bayonet sopcket.

and permitted the use of the - was it m2 and m3b

bulbs?

likely theargus flash holder early on used the screw base bulbs'and

later the bayonet -auto style- bulbs.

when I had a c-3 and an electronic flash, I used a cord with two ouls that fit the glash contacts.

I had mine apart and I think I found a way to change the timing.

but i did use the old electronic flash but do not recall if I could expose at faster speeds.

try flashing while the backl is open to check timing

it costs a LOT less.'

besides with today's fast films the flashj is far too bright.

 

The lens was sharp and you will be pleased with the phots

 

making an adapter could be a probkem.

but better to display the camera flash and bulbs in a display case.

 

there is an argus forum that can be a big help

[Lou_Meluso]

<blockquote>

<p> I just want to find some bulbs and shoot the flash off for the nostalgic kick.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Chuck, don't make the same mistake I keep making when I go back to play with vintage flashes, looking to see if the bulb is seated well and accidentally hitting the shutter release while facing at the bulb. If I had a dollar for every time...Besides scary bright, those guys put a blast of heat that will give you more than a nostalgic kick. Just saying.</p>

[PapaTango]

<p>Sandy called it right. The #5 & Synchro-Flash #5B were General Electric nomenclature. Their main competitor was Sylvania, whose equivalent for the #5 was the Press 25. Philips offered the "Photoflux" series. The equivalencies there are the PF 25N (clear), and the PF 25/97 (blue). The GE was probably the most commonly available type--and as a result a ton on them are still to be found at a reasonable cost.<br>

For reference, figure a GN of 200 with ISO100@1/100s for the GE #5..</p>

[glen_h]

<p>It isn't so hard to find them for a good price, though some are way overpriced.</p>

<p>I now even have some #40 bulbs, which are about the size, and same base as, ordinary light bulbs. <br>

As far as I know, it was usual to put them in ordinary light sockets, open the shutter, turn on the light switch, then after the flash, close the shutter.</p>

<p>I don't know at all about European flash lamps. GE and Sylvania were popular in the US. <br>

AG-1, M2, M3, #5 and #25 (either clear or blue coated) were usual, and flash guns would take any of them. </p>

<p>Oh, while clear bulbs were often used with black and white film, in later years Kodak recommended blue bulbs. That is, more accurate color rendition.</p>

[PapaTango]

<p>The clear bulbs of all types typically had a color temperature of 3800K. The blue coated bulbs weighed in at around 6000K. </p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Maybe this will help, at least for those of us whose memory does not serve.</p><div></div>

[Sandy Vongries]

<p>I have several sleeves of the #6 which have a longer peak duration for the Leica focal plane shutter. I don't think the battery for the old Leica "candlestick" flash is available any more, but I can probably find one for the Nikon BC 7. Best use would likely be some retro event -- certainly with one of my old Nikons and film. Fun thought anyway! Remember the smell when the bulbs have fired?</p>

[chuck909]

<p>I do remember that smell.<br>

A couple of flash bulb stories:<br>

Long ago I worked for a company called Brown Photo in Minneapolis, MN. A customer came in with a bag of used bulbs. I asked him what he wanted me to do with them. I feared he's want his money back because they only worked once. But no, he wanted them developed. It was his first experience with a camera and thought it was the bulb that took the picture. Unfortunately, all the "photos" were of his grand-daughter's wedding.</p>

<p>And I used to sell those #40(?) bulbs that fit in a light socket. A cruel gag to swap out all the normal light bulbs in a hotel room of a very drunk buddy.</p>

[dhbebb]

<p><em>swap out all the normal light bulbs</em><br>

When I was studying photography in the 1960s, one of my lecturers was a guy called David Bailey (no, not that one!). He had spent some time in the air force and was working as a commercial photographer. He warmly recommended not bothering to carry any heavy lighting equipment but merely replacing all the lightbulbs with flash bulbs for interior shots. Since IIRC flashbulbs were designed for a trigger voltage of between three and 120 V, they fired extra well when British current (240 V) was applied - invariably all the fuses in the lighting circuits would blow. The lecturer's advice was accordingly to keep all equipment close to hand so that as rapid as possible an exit could be made after a picture had been taken. </p>

[User_1577653]

<p>There’s a lot of good information here but the main thing you need to know is what type of flashbulb will physically fit your particular holder, as nothing else is going to work. The Argus flash unit accepts a type of bulb that I would call the standard bayonet-style press bulb. These can be recognized by being about the size and shape of a small egg and having a metal base that is smooth-sided except for two short pins which protrude near the bottom. The most common of these in my neck of the woods are probably the GE #5 and 5B, and the Sylvania Press 25, and 25B, where the “B” designated versions have a blue color which is supposed to yield the correct colored balance when using color film.</p>

<p>I’m not sure how common these are where you live, but just as a general reference you might want to check out <a href="http://www.dlbrittain.com/Flashbulbs/FlashCollect.htm">http://www.dlbrittain.com/Flashbulbs/FlashCollect.htm</a>, which lists quite a few different brands and types of flashbulbs. My suspicion is that among the bayonet type bulbs listed there many of the ones with “5” or “25” in the name are probably equivalents to the GE and Sylvania bulbs above.</p>

<p>Another thing you should know is that you can find a <a href="http://www.butkus.org/chinon/argus/argus_match-matic/argus_match-matic_c3.htm">a manual for the Matchmatic</a> (at the <br /> Butkus website) which has some pretty good descriptions of how to use flash with this camera. I notice that it seems to recommend the Sylvania 25B specifically, but similar bulbs should work fine, and you don't necessarily need the blue bulbs if you're doing b&W only.</p>

[dhbebb]

<p><em>standard bayonet-style press bulb</em><br /> This was called an ASCC bulb (American Single-Center Contact). When flash bulbs were in common use, every photo store had adapters which allowed PF1/5 bulbs and the equivalents by other makers (known as "capless" bulbs) to be used in an ASCC flash gun. If you can't find one at a photo store (or even find a photo store), old-time photographers are likely to have one at the back of their desk drawer.<br>

Here's one adapter<br>

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/vintage-bulb-adapter-allows-use-of-bayonet-type-bulbs-in-LARGE-27mm-flash-unit-/162195401763?hash=item25c3996c23:g:n-AAAOxyFPNSLdt6<br>

here's another<br>

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bayonet-to-Capless-Flashbulb-Adapter-/272390043618?hash=item3f6bb637e2:g:OYUAAOSwaB5Xwrw5</p>

[glen_h]

<blockquote>

<p>Remember the smell when the bulbs have fired?<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I don't especially remember it. But starting to develop roll film (that is, with paper backing) after not doing it for so many years, I do still remember the smell that comes when you first unroll the film and paper, and that 35mm film doesn't have.<br>

<br>

My first darkroom work was with 120, when I was nine years old, but not so long after that, mostly switched to 35mm. Then, over 40 years later, the memories come back from that smell.<br>

<br>

I used to have a plastic cover for my flashgun. Then for many years used flashcubes. I don't remember such a distinctive smell from either, though I might have blamed it on the plastic cover. </p>

[Sandy Vongries]

<p>One strange one I recall is that back in the '60's when taking the tape off a Kodak Bulk Film can in total darkness, there was a visible minor luminescence at the point of contact as the tape peeled. No, I wasn't into those illegal substances.</p>

[PapaTango]

<p>@Sandy. It was the same thing with the tape that held 135 film to the spool. The luminescence was/is due to static electricity being generated when the adhesive pulls away. Duct tape in total darkness does the same thing--more so the lower the humidity!</p>

<p>@Glen. Cognitive scientists say that our sense of smell is one of our most powerful memory triggers. I can attest to that--smelling something from the past has transported me via mental time machine very quickly. For a while back in the 'olden days' I worked for a professional film processing company. All film has a smell of one sort or another--as does the chemistry. As it is said, the memory of 'the smell of fixer in the morning' never is forgotten!</p>

<p>The camera I started out with was a Polaroid Model 125. The flash head for it had a blue plastic cover--so regular bulbs could be used with the color film. But my first 35mm camera was an Argus C3. I clearly remember the "pop sizzle" as the bulb flashed. The plastic coating always bubbled somewhere--and often was singed in places brown. It did have a smell.</p>

<p>Mostly, a fast lesson and lifetime memory is not to mess with a hot flashbulb. Ouch! The old press photogs that mentored me back in the day would tell of ejecting the bulb into their coat pockets--and how in a fast event bulbs were merely ejected down on the ground. People moving around would be treated to the sound of pops and crunching glass under their feet from the discarded bulbs...</p>

[User_1577653]

<blockquote>

<p><em>standard bayonet-style press bulb</em><br /> This was called an ASCC bulb (American Single-Center Contact)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Thanks David, it's nice to finally know the official name for these!</p>

<p>I was going to mention adapters too if the OP ended up having trouble finding the designated bulbs. Here are <a href="https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8187/29952135951_930554f527_b.jpg">two adapters</a> that I've made good use of myself. The one on the left would be useful if the OP finds a supply of midget bulbs like M2, M3 or M5.</p>

[PapaTango]

<p>The one thing to remember with the use of adapters is that the bulb being used is smaller in height and diameter than the one the flash was intended to use. Quite a few flash bowls are of a very particular parabola--and can throw the light out from a smaller bulb in a totally unintended pattern.</p>

[dhbebb]

<p>@ Jeff: Yes, adapters can be handy - it was these two that I linked in my posting.<br>

@ Patrick: Good point, this is why more professional bulb guns such as Graflex have a facility for adjusting the height of the reflector.</p>

[glen_h]

<blockquote>

<p>The one thing to remember with the use of adapters is that the bulb being used is smaller in height and diameter than the one the flash was intended to use.<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I used to have an AG-1 adapter with its own little reflector, presumably for that reason.<br>

<br>

Then there was a story from my grandfather, from some years earlier at Niagara falls.<br>

<br>

He had taken a picture (I presume not of the falls) and decided to eject the bulb into the falls. Except that he was using an adapter, so instead ejected the adapter with bulb into the falls. Realized just a second too late.<br>

<br>

You probably aren't supposed to do that now, but that was some years ago. <br>

<br>

The AG-1 adapter I had, I inherited from him, must have bought another one.</p>