D800shooting too red

[sarah_lange1]

Hi, I have a new D800, I upgraded from the D700. I'm only ok with the 800, it's definitely not giving me the great photos I got with the 700.

Anyway, here's my question: The 800 is shooting so red. Most of the pix are too red (I shoot portraits always RAW). And the ACR color

slider is always at least plus 20 and often plus 30 or even close to 40. I can slide it back but it never seems right. I shot an event the other

day,, and had both cameras going, long lens and short. The color out of the 700 was fine. But from the 800, the red issue was there and

the slider was way into red in every shot.

 

Another thing, with my 70-200, I'm getting red eye with flash. Outside. I have never gotten red eye before with a dslr. I don't think it's the

lighting because I'm doing nothing different and have never gotten it before. But just FTR, I do not point the flash at the subjects,

 

Wondering if anyone else has been experiencing this. Thank you!

[Javier Gutierre]

<p>I will wait and let the experts chime in. But I will say this, I am sure you will be asked to post a sample image. Having said that, I too had a D700 once upon a time and I do have a D800e. I never experienced better images with the D700 over the D800e. Quite the other way around actually and I am a jpeg shooter.<br>

Save a little time and post a picture ;-) </p>

[Palouse]

<p>What flash are you using?</p>

[kari_oinonen]

<p>And the white balance in the d800 is - defined and known?</p>

<p>Red eyes: is it possible that you are just seeing the red eyes more clearly with the d800 sensor and 3x pixel count compared to d700? Red eye issue might be corrected when you get the colors right. </p>

<p>ACR: you do have a "camera profile" for the d800?</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>From the ACR reference, it appears that Sarah is shooting in raw, which ought to make the white balance settings irrelevant, except if the camera settings are used as reference. All I can say is, that's weird. I had some trouble with the D800's meter being, I think, less reliable than the D700's (it changed to be cleverer and I found it less predictable) and with autofocus accuracy (I'm sure partly because of the extra pixel-level detail compared with the D700), but I didn't see colour problems - I usually shoot raw and auto WB anyway (since I then correct the WB in the raw converter if needed), but it's usually been in the right ball park. If it's not just that the camera has been put into cloudy WB and the raw converter is picking it up by default, there's no way that white balance fine tuning is affecting the raw converter, is there? (Sometimes the default WB is "as shot".) Otherwise, there is a mode on newer Nikons that's intended to preserve more of the natural scene colour under incandescent lighting than a pure auto would, but (without checking) I think it turned up after the D800.<br />

<br />

That said, it's been a while since I've used ACR directly for image processing - these days I normally run things through DxO and import them into Photoshop if needed. Do you have the latest ACR? (Just in case Adobe had a glitch - it was misbehaving recently when I used it, but in the UI, not the conversion.) It's not an ideal option, but maybe give DxO's free trial a go and see if it works for you? It would at least tell you whether it's the camera or the converter. On that note, do the JPEGs straight from the camera have the same cast?<br />

<br />

I'm putting it down as "weird". I hope it's just a simple settings problem.</p>

[sarah_lange1]

<p>Thank you. I will try to post a photo. All my photos are portraits so don't want to post people but can crop out heads. I will also post the ACR out of camera settings. And camera profile. <br>

Yes, the meter also seems off. The photos are darker than the meter suggested. I'm not getting the "Wow these are great photos" thoughts (from myself) that I often got with the 700. Now, I'm like "Yikes, what's going on?"<br>

I don't have any jpegs straight from camera as everything is RAW. I mostly shoot on A white balance, manual exposure. My flash, almost always used for fill or main light is either SB900 or 910, I have both.</p>

 

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Thanks for clarifying, Sarah. Could you shoot a JPEG from the camera for an experiment? Just so there's a different conversion path going on - it would allow us to rule out an ACR issue. I found I often had to include exposure compensation with the D800, but it varied according to what I was doing (unhelpfully) so I basically had to chimp. Of course, at low ISO the D800 is so good at pulling shadow detail that I was normally happy just to try to avoid blowing highlights and left the rest to recovery in post - something the D700 isn't nearly as good at. The D810's highlight metering is better, though not perfect, at handling this. Good luck.</p>

[Richard Williams]

<p>Have you tried processing some NEFs with Capture NX-D, to make sure it isn't just an Adobe issue?:<br>

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/microsite/capturenxd/</p>

[sarah_lange1]

<p>Thank you. Regarding the possibility that it's an Adobe or ACR issue, I don't think so because this does not happen with the D700, which I am still using. So, for example, the event the other day. Two cameras going at the same time. I come back and process and one is high in red (i.e. +20 or 30) and the other (700) is normal. Everything else is the same except the camera. </p>

[sarah_lange1]

<p>I was wondering if some of it had to do with underexposure, which can cause a red look, and have found that with the D700 too. But that wouldn't account for the high red level on the ACR slider, which seems to be compensating for something. You can't slide it too far back down in the other direction without it getting too green. </p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Raw converters have different settings for different cameras - particularly, the per-channel output is "cooked" according to the sensor sensitivity and filter behaviour. (As far as I can tell this is high on the reason why it takes a while for a new camera to be supported, and I'm mystified therefore why Nikon feel the need <i>also</i> to perform scaling on the raw values, but hey.) I suspect it's entirely possible that the D700 code path could be fine but the D800 would be playing up. Or it could be reading some image metadata that's confusing it. If you're getting too green by removing red, I imagine you need to adjust the blue slider as well, and colour temperature in general is off. It's true that underexposed images typically appear more saturated, but there shouldn't really be a colour shift.<br />

<br />

A trial image with a JPEG from the camera and/or a try with another raw converter seems like it would be informative. Some metadata from the raw file might be interesting, too, if you can find the dialogue which will tell you.</p>

[Richard Williams]

<p>For the reason Andrew suggests, I think it could still be worth trying an NX conversion to debug this. Alternatively, you can generate a jpeg from a existing raw file in-camera via the Retouch menu - see the manual, p353.</p>

[wogears]

<p>What do you mean, "The slider was way into red?"</p>

<p>EDIT: Also, have you done a factory reset on the 800?</p>

[sarah_lange1]

<p>Thank you everyone. I wish I could post the red faces but don't want to post the faces of the high school seniors I have been photographing. But I have a crop of one showing the "as shot" settings. As you will see, the slider is way in to the red at +41 on the tint slider. Les, this is what I meant by way into the red. I am trying to post that image but when I hit the photo icon (a little tree) it's asking me for a URL. Hmmm. <br>

I haven't tried a factory reset of the 800, how do you do that?<br>

I will get a jpeg tomorrow of something so I can post that. I was very busy today. <br>

I appreciate your replies.<br>

OK, I don't know how to post photos. But here are settings:<br>

Temperature: 5950<br>

Tint: 41<br>

Under the camera calibration: <br>

Process: 2012 (current)<br>

Camera profile: Adobe Standard.<br>

Everything else is at zero.</p>

 

[Richard Williams]

<p>For factory resets see the manual and this page:<br>

http://support.nikonusa.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17395/~/how-to-reset-a-d-slr-to-factory-default-settings<br>

(I don't think everything is reset on the D800).<br>

This may not be the answer to your problem, but I get better results using one of the Camera profiles in ACR rather than Adobe Standard. See for example:<br>

http://neilvn.com/forum/discussion/1546/camera-profiles-what-i-had-found-to-be-best-for-nikon-raws</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

Sarah, is the D800 new or just "new" to you? It may be

that a previous owner has set a red bias in the white balance menu. If you dig deep enough in the

menu you get to a Lab graph where you can alter

the colour balance in any direction you like on

blue/yellow and magenta/green axes.

 

Also. What colour balance do you get shooting a known neutral grey? Does the colour-picker tool show equal RGB components, or close to?

[sarah_lange1]

Thank you Rodeo Joe, I was looking for that grid you mention to see if it's set at red.

 

Thanks Richard, I will look at those links.

[sarah_lange1]

<p>Ps: It's brand new to me. Got it about a year ago but only recently started using it because I was using my D700s. And loved them. I got the 800 at B&H.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

As a quick check. If any of the White Balance

options is offset from default a little asterisk

appears next to the WB indication on the top LCD

panel.

[sarah_lange1]

<p>Thank you Rodeo Joe. I was looking for the color adjustment grid (that is indeed buried in the menu options) and could not find it. Then I saw your note here about the asterisk and sure enough there was a little asterisk there. So I looked again and found the grid (deep under the white balance menu item) and it was set at M1 for magenta 1. So not at zero. So that's good news. I set it to zero and I have a portrait shoot tonight so I'm interested to see how the photos' color changes, if it's noticeable or not. Of course, now I am wondering why it was set at plus one. I did not do that. I hope it does not mean this camera was used and returned to B&H. I doubt it but I'm paranoid about that stuff. Thanks again. I will report back if I see a difference or not. </p>

[Richard Williams]

<p>According to several threads on another forum, B&H does re-sell cameras sent back to them within the return period, provided everything is as-new and the shutter count is sufficiently low, see e.g.:<br>

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50652931<br>

Henry Posner from B&H, who also posts here, is quoted as the source of this information. You can compare your camera's total shutter count with your own shooting history using a tool that extracts Exif data, including the current shutter count, from a given file (the very first image you shot would be the simplest to interpret). It's possible even a brand new cameras wouldn't have a shutter count of zero if, e.g., it was tested at some point. One way to check is this online tool:<br>

http://regex.info/exif.cgi<br>

I usually use ExifTool:<br>

http://www.sno.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/</p>

[sarah_lange1]

<p>Thank you Richard. I will look into that. Not that it matters really because I bought it over a year ago, give or take, and just waited to use it. So I couldn't make a fuss. Plus, I can't say that anything is wrong with it, I don't think, although I'm not as happy with it as the D700 but that could be me and you can't just say "I like my 700 photos better." But just on principal I'd be upset if I spent so much money on a returned camera. Why did the other person return it, for example. I'll check the shutter count because now I'm curious. I suppose B&H should be able to tell from the serial number too. Thank you.</p>

[Richard Williams]

<p>This happened to me back in the 90s (not at B&H) - I knew because there was a partially exposed film in the camera. I shot it to the end as a test roll and got it developed, and the first few shots had been taken in someone's garden, so it had certainly left the shop! The camera was in perfect condition and was of course fully guaranteed, so I wasn't too worried and got some trivial discount from the shop. I suppose the other side of this is that B&H offers easy 30 day returns, which could be useful one day with some other bit of gear.</p>

<p>Regarding the WB, even with a biased setting I would have thought it would still be possible to process your raw files correctly, since you can ignore what Adobe calls the 'as shot' setting (= 'recorded value' in NX-D), and pick one of the presets, or the auto setting, or full manual (colour temp/tint). Unless the exposure is quite a bit off, there ought to be a setting that works for you, either in NX-D on in ACR (probably using one of the 'Camera' profiles). Unless I'm missing something, that Magenta setting does nothing irreversible.</p>

[sarah_lange1]

<p>That's interesting about the film camera. I thought they only resold returned items as used or maybe refurbished -- but I know your store then wasn't B&H. Yes, I've been able to adjust the white balance since I shot in RAW, but besides being time-consuming, it's never quite right. Thanks again. </p>

[kari_oinonen]

<p>OP wrote:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>But that wouldn't account for the high red level on the ACR slider, which seems to be compensating for something. You can't slide it too far back down in the other direction without it getting too green.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>What I have understood the main color balance slider controls the blue-red color temperature axis. In addition there is another axis - tint value - that chages the color in the magenta (reddish) to green. Any toughts based on this?</p>

<p>As some others have suggested it might be wise to do a camera reset. This will cancel out come of the unknown variables. The camera reset may not effect on the permanent exposure correction setting value available via and only seen in the corresponding menu. The camera may have been set up to an unwanted state by the possible previous tester (30 days return time was discussed about).</p>

<p>You post a photo after confirming your comment. Then a new page appears where a photo can be uploaded to photo.net. You need to provide some caption info. The crop should be less than 700 pixels on the longer edge.</p>