Installing a new video card (capable of 10-bit gamut) in a Windows 7 PC

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Andrew, you are putting up a "maybe" against an "it seems", both expressing a degree of incertitude. Serves no purpose.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Where's the critical thinking here? I said <em>maybe</em> because it <strong>is</strong> a maybe; we've heard absolutely nothing from either Apple or Adobe about this possible new feature. Or maybe unlike Eric you can provide data directly from Apple? I very much hope that El Capitan has implemented a high bit video path! I really do. Look at the statement most people are using to suggest this is true: </p>

<blockquote>

<p>"Among the many new features in OS X El Capitan, <strong>it seems</strong> Apple has silently integrated another one: 10 bit color<strong> for the 4K & 5K iMac".</strong> <br /></p>

</blockquote>

<p><em>It seems?</em> It seems the Earth revolves around the Sun, no. It actually does. <br>

<br>

Now examine the rest of the text: <em>10 bit color for the 4K & 5K iMac.</em><br>

ONLY 4K and 5K iMac's? Or any display like my SpectraView that absolutely does support a high bit path? </p>

<p>As perhaps you know, apparently Eric doesn't, for a high bit video path, every component must support it: OS, video card, video card driver, display and application. So it seems this might be true for the iMac makes no sense or might mean Apple has produced a unique video card or video card driver(they write the drivers) that <strong>only</strong> works with an iMac? <strong>WE DON'T KNOW.... Yet</strong>. </p>

<p>The article states only <em>Preview</em> and <em>Photos</em> works even with that hardware. Odd. Does that mean no other software product supports high bit display path because maybe Apple has introduced something '<em>new</em>' into those two products that no other 3rd party products yet support? <strong>WE DON'T KNOW.... Yet</strong>. <br>

As I stated and will again: where's the critical thinking, the proof? I absolutely hope OS X finally has the necessary high bit support that was the missing link for so many years. But until I hear from someone who can speak with authority, and that isn't Eric by a long shot, I'm going to stick with <em>maybe</em>. Maybe yes (hopefully), maybe no (hopefully not). </p>

<p>Now again, if you, Eric or anyone else has information that explicitly states this is true, I'm all ears. And again, I've emailed a few folks that DO know the facts including Chris Cox a senior Adobe engineer as well as the Apple ColorSync list. No word back. That's why maybe is the safest language to use at this time. </p>

[EricM]

<blockquote>

<p>I like dealing with facts from a reputable source. And here that is, from my contact at Adobe:<br>

<em>Apple added 30-bit support for 10.11. It only works on certain displays and it works better on their 5K displays (even better on the latest gen iMac).</em><br>

<em>The next update for PS will support 30-bit color on Mac.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2015/20151030_1036-OSX_ElCapitan-10bit.html</p>

[digitaldog]

<p>Eric, the URL is interesting and useful (<strong>thank you</strong>) but still doesn't provide full clarity as to what's going on! The Nov 2nd update is telling: <em>I still don't have full clarity from Adobe... </em>and further, the text clearly states assumptions are still ongoing<em>!</em>:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>MPG: The <a href="http://macperformanceguide.com/blog/2015/20151026_1450-NECPA302W_BKSV-priceDrop.html">NEC PA series displays</a> have long been 10-bit panels with internal 12 or 14-bit <a href="http://diglloyd.com/articles/Recommended/display-calibration.html">true calibration</a>. So I assume they’ll work grea, even on a 4K UltraHD display*.<br>

<strong>Update 02 Nov</strong>: I still don’t have full clarity from Adobe on which displays are supported, or even whether 10-bit-capable displays like the NEC PA series will support 30 bit. Something about dithering when 10-bit is enabled, which would would be a huge disappointment.<br>

With Apple displays, it’s not clear whether there is any API for true calibration. So calibration solutions on the market may do a lot better with 10-bit video for <a href="http://diglloyd.com/articles/Recommended/display-calibration.html">faux calibration</a>, but that still would not be true calibration.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>So, <strong>we still don't know yet.</strong> WHY it is taking so long after the release of this OS is suspect! Again, I hope we finally have high bit support on the OS. Further, which cards will work? Is the graphic card in the new iMac's in some way unique? Can one pop it into any Mac? Are 'special' video card drivers necessary or even available? <br>

WHO has proof that outside of a new iMac, high bit video support exists? In fact, who has proof it works with the new iMac? I don't have one, seems someone should be able to demonstrate that even with this new hardware, they are indeed producing a true, high bit display path! <br>

As for: <em>The next update for PS will support 30-bit color on Mac. </em>I'm a beta for that produce, I've asked, no answer. So that too is questionable. FWIW, I know exactly what's coming in the next release and I've seen nothing that states 30-bit support is coming. Maybe! </p>

[AlanKlein]

<blockquote>

<p>In fact, who has proof it works with the new iMac? I don't have one, seems someone should be able to demonstrate that even with this new hardware, they are indeed producing a true, high bit display path!</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If you can't see the difference, why would it matter?</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>If you can't see the difference, why would it matter?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>One <strong>should</strong> be able to see a difference, that's the point. Now with a high bit display like my SpectraView, the differences are rather subtle but yes, I <strong>can</strong> see, using the correct testing methodology, that my setup, even with El Capitan and a high bit panel is not a full high bit path. <br>

NEC has a Windows utility specifically build so their customers can tell if there's a high bit path. The test file at http://www.imagescience.com.au can be used too. It absolutely IS visible. </p>

[digitaldog]

<p>Got an email from one person in the know (Product Manager of NEC SpectraView):</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>Long answer:</em><br /><em>Yes, but only:</em><br /><em>1. On supported hardware (confirmed so far: ATI FirePro, some of the newer Intel Iris Pro based chipsets).</em><br /><br /><em>2. If the app is capable of requesting a 10 bit surface (so far Adobe apps can't, but I've been told they are in the process of being updated).</em><br /><br /><em>3. Of course the display must be able to support. Luckily there is nothing that needs to be set on the display side.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>What's a bit odd is #2: Got old email and public comments that PS was all set but it's possible a new rub has been introduced, waiting on word back from Adobe. Not sure what "<em>requesting a 10 bit surface" </em>means, looking into that too. </p>

[digitaldog]

<p>Photoshop was updated today. The Mac version is supposed to now support high bit display path (not that you'll see them admit this anywhere <g>). Those with the proper video cards and displays should test it (trust but verify). </p>

[digitaldog]

<p>New and somewhat exciting data:<br>

http://petapixel.com/2015/12/04/adobe-quietly-added-10-bit-color-to-photoshop-cc-heres-how-to-enable-it/</p>

 

So much conflicting info. First of all, I was told that for this to really occur, I'd need a video card that supports high bit. The examples I was provided were specific: ATI FirePro, some of the newer Intel Iris Pro based chipsets. I'm using an older MacBook Pro (Retina, Early 2013) with a NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024 MB. I did see banding on the now famous test file with the latest version of CC released last week. But after reading the article and clicking on the 30-bit display check box, <strong>banding is gone</strong>. So I'm happy but not sure what's going on here <img title="Angry" src="http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/Smileys/default/angry.gif" alt=">:(" /> . Can't argue with the better results I see on-screen!

 

 

[digitaldog]

<p>Something may not be kosher here. I see NO banding on the MacBook Retina display with the new setting invoked. I do see banding when off. Is the MacBook Retina a high bit panel (news to me)? If not, should we be suspicious that Adobe is doing some kind of dithering here to smooth everything out?</p>

[EricM]

Save yourself all the headaches and use Windows like every other serious digital photographer. For

someone that is so into colour management, it seems strange that you've anchored yourself to the most

restricted OS.

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Save yourself all the headaches and use Windows like every other serious digital photographer.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>What a boat load of BS. But then that's to be expected. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>For someone that is so into colour management, it seems strange that you've anchored yourself to the most restricted OS.<br /></p>

</blockquote>

<p>You really have zero idea of what you're talking about. The bit depth of the video path has nothing to do with color management. As usual, your rants and trolling suggest other's ignore your ignorance. Good job Eric. </p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Save yourself all the headaches and use Windows like every other serious digital photographer.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>New low in rhetoric even for Eric. More proof of poster's hypocrisy too. Maybe Eric's traveled south and spent too much time at Donald Trump rallies to tune this rhetoric:<br>

<a href="/photodb/user?user_id=788985">Eric ~</a> , Sep 26, 2015; 02:45 p.m.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Dave, <strong>professionals</strong> and serious amateurs alike, have been running laptops and external monitors <strong>on both Apple</strong> and Windows for a number of years now.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Is Eric both a serious photographer and Mac users? One item is clear: he's a Mac user:<br>

<a href="/photodb/user?user_id=788985">Eric ~</a> , Oct 10, 2014; 02:01 p.m.</p>

<blockquote>

<p><strong>I've only done the MBP</strong> and did it with a Samsung Evo ssd. It was easy. The MBP has a normal hard drive and the Air has a flash module hard drive that looks like a ram stick. Those look easy as well and can be bought at OWC</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Lots and lots of other posts that indicate he's a Mac user.</p>