Nikon Nikkor 50mm F/1.4 MF Lens

[kaliuzhkin]

<p>I’m in the market for this lens. It would replace the 50mm f/1.2 I have which is not working. I’ve shopped around with the following results:<br>

Grays of Westminster, MINT-, newer focusing ring, AIS, $395.24 = £285<br>

KEH Camera, Like New -, EX+, newer focusing ring, AIS, $238<br>

B&H, 9, newer focusing ring, $289.95<br>

Gil Ghitelman Camera, near mint, AI, with shade, $135.<br>

<br>

Ghitelman has the best price for near mint lenses, but their price is half, or even less, of the other sellers. I wrote to Gil and he replied: “Can’t explain the other guys pricing. If you would feel more comfortable I could raise the price by about $75.” A price this low is too good to be true. I asked him: “Why is your price so much less than from the other stores, less than half their prices? All are in near mint condition. Is it because your lens is AI and theirs is AIS? Is it because of the lens shade?<br>

By the way, what difference would AIS as opposed to AI make when used on the following cameras: Nikon F, Nikon F3HP, Nikon D300, Nikon D1?”<br>

He replied: “Can’t explain the other guys pricing. If you would feel more comfortable I could raise the price by about $75. AI lenses work fine on F3HP and earlier. I don’t know about digital. Suggest you Google it.”<br>

So what’s going on? Has anyone had experience with Gil Ghitelman which might shed some light on this?<br>

By the way, I’ve had some bad experiences with used equipment from B&H.<br>

So, I guess I’m asking about these sellers and about this lens.<br>

Dan</p>

[jim_momary]

<p>A small point of contrast ... the Ai version has a focus throw of about 210 degrees whereas the AiS is about 140 degrees.</p>

<p>Jim</p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>As far as I know the only difference between AI and AIS is that the aperture ring on the AIS is stepped more evenly, which is an issue only for cameras that allow shutter priority or program mode with manual lenses. An AIS lens is recognized by a little scallop in its mount right next to the locking slot, and if there is no corresponding part in the camera's mount there is no way the camera can know which it is. I don't know of any current digital cameras that have that, and I have never seen the scallop on an AFG lens - only on those whose aperture rings make them backward compatible with the couple of film cameras that used it.</p>

<p>Reading up on dandelion chips, it appears that if you are converting a manual lens with a chip, AIS is required for accurate camera control of aperture, but that's no issue if you use the aperture ring.</p>

<p>An AI lens will work on any AF camera. On low end digitals it will not meter, but will work in M or A mode on others. On some earlier AF cameras a pre-AI lens converted to AI may still cause damage, so make sure it's truly AI, not just "ai-ed."</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>Danek, both Ai and AiS are Ai lenses (<strong>A</strong>utomatic<strong> I</strong>ndexing) that is what you need to work in the cameras you mention, with the only exception on the Nikon F which need the so called "rabbit ears" to be coupled (included on almost all Ai/AiS lenses).<br /> Roughly speaking, AiS lenses has a linear aperture lever movement update capable of fine control, instead of the previous aperture ring selected, "tab limiting" system. This "new" system was designed to work with aperture control capable cameras; neither of your film models will enjoy this feature (Program and Shutter priority modes). Electronically controlled shutters like the one on the F3 doesn`t need it for exposure accuracy.<br /> <br /> In the practice, both lenses are perfectly usable performers. The AiS vs Ai control difference is negligible in real life shooting, so you can choose which model suit your taste better... Some are fooled by the supposedly (I`d say marginal, <em>if any</em>) "higher" construction quality of the older, or prefer its "more friendly" color painted DoF scale, or its glossy black matching paint, or maybe you prefer to have a later version, less physically aged, with an (also supposedly) faster focus action, and why not, with its different paint finish and shiny aluminum ring.<br /> <br /> AiS lenses are more expensive simply because they are more recent, updated, usually in better shape, less dusted, or whatever. Or simply because most people are willing to pay more for them, for whatever (based or not) the reason. <br /> <br />BTW, sincerely, buying a MF lens to be permanently *damaged* with an electronic chip these days is a sacrilege. Current digital cameras like the D300 doesn`t need it; just store the lens data on the camera`s menu and select the lens manually in the menu every time you use it. It will take you a couple button pressings. If you need a chip, simply buy a factory built-in chipped lens like a good Zeiss ZF, an AFS version, a Voigtlander, or an already chipped one.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>Philip Greenspun seems to think quite highly of Gil Ghitelman: <a href="/equipment/where-to-buy">http://www.photo.net/equipment/where-to-buy</a>. But if you aren't comfortable with the offering, then don't buy.</p>

<p>There are only four cameras that detect the presence of an Ai-S lens via that scallop in the mount: N2000 (F301), N2020 (F501), FA, F4. For all the ones you mention, the difference between Ai and Ai-S is irrelevant (except for the differences in focus throw: all the Ai-S lenses I am aware of have a shorter throw than their Ai counterparts - which to some implies "faster focus action").</p>

<p>There's a lot of information on related issues here: <a href="/nikon-camera-forum/00biPA">http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00biPA</a></p>

[Ed_Ingold]

<p>What's not working in your 50/1.2? If the diaphragm is stuck, it's probably a lubrication problem, and can be fixed for about $100 (U.S.).</p>

[kaliuzhkin]

<p>Edward Ingold: On my lens, which I'm selling on eBay for $178.50, the aperture dial gets stuck above about f/5.6. Nikon quoted me $79-$200 to fix it.</p>

[Richard Williams]

I don't know anything about Gil Ghitelman apart from a couple of positive online reviews like Phil's, but he'd get my business just for the $75 joke!

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>The Ai-S version would make a difference if you were considering adding a Dandelion chip to the lens. Then body control of the aperture would work properly, but if you're happy to use the lens ring then it makes little difference.</p>

<p>I agree that the prices asked by most of your listed dealeras are <strong>way</strong> too high for a used manual focus 50mm f/1.4. Grays of Westminster are just having a Girrafe; their price isn't far short of the new price of the 50mmm f/1.2.</p>

<p>I would expect a good "user" Ai-S 50mm f/1.4 to go for less than $180 US, and mint for well under $250. I'd also expect any repairer worth their salt to be able to un-stick the iris on your 50mm f/1.2 lens for less than $120.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"BTW, sincerely, buying a MF lens to be permanently *damaged* with an electronic chip these days is a sacrilege."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Lenses are for looking <em>through</em>, not <em>at</em>.</p>

[michael_bradtke]

<p>1) I would get he 50mm f/1.2 fixed instead of buying another lens. <br>

2) I would buy the AI version for the longer focus throw. it makes manual focusing less of a pain</p>

[kaliuzhkin]

<p>Gil Gitelman provided pictures and a serial number, 3802059. According to Braczko, Complete Nikon System, this lens was made from April, 1976 to September, 1981 and is non-AI. No wonder it’s so cheap.<br>

KEH said they could not get the serial number!<br>

I’ve requested the serial number and pictures from B&H and from Adorama, but haven’t received a response yet.</p>

[Michael R Freeman]

<blockquote>

<p><em>Gil Gitelman provided pictures and a serial number, 3802059. According to Braczko ...</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Suggest you post that picture, or a link to it, here. It's possible the lens has been Ai converted. If it has a factory Ai converision, it is for all intents and purposes an Ai lens.</p>

<p>s/n 3802059 is a late model 2nd "K" version (<a href="http://www.destoutz.ch/lens_50mm_f1.4_3777777.html">link</a>) of the non-Ai 50/1.4. Mechanically and optically, save for the aperture ring, it's identical to the 1977 Ai model. Inside, it is really built to last.</p>

[Michael R Freeman]

<p>Might not be that important a consideration since you are buying from reputable vendors, but the AiS version of the 50/1.4 is prone to oil contamination of the aperture blades. None of the Ai or 'K' versions of the 50/1.4 seem to suffer from that malady.</p>

[kaliuzhkin]

<p>How do I insert an image??? Photo.net wants a URL and I have the picture only in a file.</p><div></div>

[kaliuzhkin]

<p>Here's one image. There is another one.</p><div></div>

[Michael R Freeman]

<p>I see you figured it out. :)</p>

<p>We'll need to see a view showing the aperture ring with f/stop numbers visible to determine if it has been converted to Ai.</p>

[Michael R Freeman]

<p>That appears to be a factory Ai conversion (I can see the Ai ridge). If you have a photo with the f/stops visible I can confirm 100%.</p>

[Michael R Freeman]

<p>... Ai ridge</p><div></div>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>You can also just see enough of the "rabbit ears" to see one of the holes that were put in them to let light fall on the ADR numbers seen in the viewfinder. Milled conversions cannot readily use the newer style ears because the location of the screw holes in the old aperture ring is different, so they are usually left in place and milled along with the ring or removed. This was the last year or so of the pre-AI version for which I would guess Nikon stocked plenty of AI conversion kits. </p>

[CvhKaar]

<p>Some history of (among others) the 50mm Nikon lenses is to be found at "MiR' :<br>

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/nikon/nikkoresources/50mmnikkor/index6.htm</p>

[andrew_brown7]

<p>I have a pre-AI Nikkor 50/1.4 (with the fluted barrel). It may be thought cheap, but that's only the price and is one of the best lenses I've put on a camera. It's probably the best standard lens they ever made, but if it's too cheap for you you'd better buy the more expensive one, like the guy offered!</p>

[kaliuzhkin]

<p>Actually, I'm a fan of non-AI. I can use it on my Nikon F but not F3HP, D1 nor D300.<br>

Dan </p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm a fan of non-AI. I can use it on my Nikon F but not F3HP</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Sure you can - just move the Ai-follower tab up (there's a little button on the bayonet mount close to the mounting index dot that you have to press, then flip the Ai tab up and out of the way.</p>

[kaliuzhkin]

<p>Yes, you can install the non-AI lens on the F3HP and you can take pictures, but you can't use the camera's light meter to determine exposure.<br>

Let alone the D1 and D300.<br>

Dan</p>

[kaliuzhkin]

<p>Correction: you can use stop-down metering on the F3HP using a AI lens.</p>