Skin rash from chemiclas

[greg_smith4]

Scince about Sept. I've been getting a red rash (very dry and cracked

skin that hurts badly), and relized last month that it's from

darkroom chemicals (mainly developer I'd imagine). I used to always

use sprint for paper, but because they are not widley available I've

been using some ilford too. I use mainly Rodinal for film (always

have been). I think I heard that Sprint Film developer is hypo-

allergic or something. Would using all Sprint get rid of or at least

partially rid of this rash? Do many of you recomend the film

developer?

[mark_sampson]

The most common source (by far) for the symptoms you describe is an allergy to the developing agent metol (or Elon), a common ingredient in many developers. Your symptoms are serious business! NOT trivial! Go see a dermatologist, there are cures for contact dermatitis. You should also find film and paper developers that use Phenidone instead of metol (they exist) and NEVER touch the developer. Use gloves and take care of them. I've had dermatitis twice in my career,10 years apart, and was able to be cured, without having to give up working in the lab. But I'm much more careful now. You are now 'sensitized' to whatever caused the allergic reaction, and should not be going near that chemical again

[michael_briggs2]

Elon and Metol are tradenames for the chemical p-methylaminophenol sulfate, also known as 4-(methylamino)phenol sulfate. The CAS identification number assigned to the chemical is 55-55-0. This is the chemical that is the most common cause of rashes. However, from the Material Safety Data Sheets neither Sprint Film Developer nor Rodinal contain Metol. Rodinal contains the chemical p-aminophenol, CAS# 123-30-8, which might be the cause of your rash (I'm guessing -- it sounds similar to Metol). Avoiding p-aminophenol and Metol is probably a good idea. You don't say which Ilford developers you have been using -- some contain Metol, others don't.

 

If you aren't sure what the developing agents are in a developer, look for the MSDS. Most of the manufacturers now have their MSDS available via the web. Sellers and employers are required to have them.

 

Gloves or tongs are excellent ideas. So is consulting a dermatologist.

[reinhold_schable]

Consider using Pat Gainers' vitamin C developers, especially

the variant that uses phenidone. Super simple, minimum

chemistry, and some vitamins, to boot:

 

Part A is 0.3g of Phenidone (prox. 1/8 teaspoon) dissolved in

about 25 ml methanol, + 20g ascorbic acid (Not sodium

ascorbate) + 500 ml water. Part B is 95g of sodium metaborate

(Kodalk) in 1000 ml water. Try 50 ml part A + 100 ml part B, +

1000ml water.

 

Very fine grain, good contrast, beautiful tonality, & cheap. (In fact,

it's almost unbelievable how little chemistry is needed to develop

a piece of film. I develope about 6 sheets of 8x20" HP5 in 3 liters

of this stuff. The actual amount of phenidone, vitamine C, and

Kodalk consumed is ---miniscule---. I'm still amazed at it all.

[greg_smith4]

I use the Multigrade developer in the little blue bottle. I've been using Rodinal for film and Sprint for paper when the rash occured. I've just in the past few months been using Ilford and a bottle of Polymax. I tried D-76 last night and that really hurt it.

[reinhold_schable]

I should add that Phenidone was championed by Ilford as an

alternate to Kodak's Metol. Ilford claimed a significant reduction

of contact dermatitis reactions with Phenidone compared to

metol, which is known to be a major irritant in the dermatitis

game.

 

Of course, you can't be certain that metol is the culprit... a doctor

would have to detremine the exact cause (or causes). That's

one of the nice things about mixing your own... you have total

control of the ingredients. You ...know... what's in there!

 

As Mark says: the problem should be taken seriously. Every

exposure will increase your sensitivity and the severity of the

reaction. It could get so bad that you may not even be able to

walk into your darkroom.

[lex_jenkins]

Developers can indeed provoke skin reactions, tho' I've been fortunate to be resistant (surprising since I spend all winter fighting another type of dermatitis).

 

Grady, if you decide to try a non-metol developer, check into Alta ZonalPro HQ Warmtone (their other paper developers may be non-metol as well). I've been using this stuff for a few weeks on fiber paper and it's excellent. Distinctly different from the Ilford multigrade developers I use with RC papers. I'm making it my standard developer for fiber papers.

 

http://www.altaphotographic.com/index.html

[dave_t]

<i>I tried D-76 last night and that really hurt it.</i>

<p>

You need to see a doctor for a proper diagnosis, but this does sound like metol poisoning. Kodak actually makes something which is designed in part with lower toxicity in mind (along with slightly finer grain, slightly better sharpness, higher speed, and lower environmental impact) -- XTOL. Most of the ascorbate/ascorbic acid formulations should be similar in toxicity: besides XTOL you could try FX50 or the various vitamin C developers (like Pat Gainer's above.) You could also try the PQ (phenidone-hydroquinone) developers: DDX/Microphen, Ilfosol S (kind of a cross between ascorbate and PQ), etc. Avoid ID11 (Ilford's version of D76), D23, PMK as those all contain metol.

[greg_smith4]

Thanks for all the help. I saw a doctor before I suspected chemicals. She said dry skin and gave me a creame, but it didnt do anything. And I went a way for a weekend (hence no developing) and it went away untill I developed film. So the developer seems like a dead give away. I'm between health plans right now, so I cant see a docotor untill early Feb.

[philip_glass]

Buy some gloves, preferably Nitrile, but vinyl and latex can be okay too. There is no sensible reason to put your hands into chemicals when you can wear gloves. Make sure there is adequate ventilation as well, chemical sensitivities are cumulative.

[greg_smith4]

Hmm, I just looked into that Pat Gainer Developer and one of the parts is metol. Trying to kill me here :)

[reinhold_schable]

Grady:

 

The formula I gave above does indeed use Phenidone, not

metol. I mix it myself and can vouch for it.

 

Pat Gainer introduced us to vitamin C developers about ten

years ago, you can read his original article at The Unblinking

Eye: http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/VitC/vitc.html

 

You'll note that mixing the tiny amounts of Phenidone is tricky,

that's why some of the recent variants on his concoctions

suggest metol instead. (It takes about 10 times as much metol

to do the same thing that Phenidone does). Since I have a

laboratory balance, I can measure out 0.3 g of the stuff easily. I

also observed that 0.3 g amounts to about 1/8 teaspoon, so I

mentioned that, in case you don't have a precision balance.

(Remember, you've got to mix it yourself, you can't buy it down at

the local photo shop)

 

About 2 years ago, Pat introduced us to a divided version, using

Phenidone, and shortly thereafter, a metol version, for the

reasons just mentioned. I happen to have at least a 50 year

supply of Phenidone, and choose to use the original version, as

related above.

 

As others have suggested above, you definately need to get as

far away from metol as quickly as you can.

 

Cheers...

[niklas_pettersson]

The instructions that comes with the bottle of Rodinal recommends that you use gloves and protective glasses. I use gloves and glasses for all of my development work (mostly Rodinal and D-76). Glasses are good because my Pattersson-tank tends to spill a lot.

 

When I'm in the darkroom I try to stay out of contact with any of the chemicals. I use tongs to manipulate my prints and rinse my hands frequently (uses lots of paper towels).

 

// Nick

[chris_waller]

Grady,

 

I also use Rodinal almost exclusively for film developing and it never causes me any problems. It may be that I'm not sensitive - having grown up in an industrial town where the atmosphere was so thick you could chew it, I'm probably immune! But because Rodinal is very caustic I avoid contact. Many photographers seem to like to get their hands in the soups but I follow health and safety advice religiously. Try a barrier cream, this might help.

[j.w.]

I've gotta chime in here on this subject. Gloves are the simplest, best answer to chemical sensitivity. However, since latex gloves can also induce rashes in those people allergic to latex, I recommend a cheap alternative is the translucent plastic gloves sold by beautician supply houses, and used in the beauty industry when doing perms, etc. Better than latex, and doesn't stain in the developer as badly. Whatever gloves you decide upon, make sure they aren't dusted with talc or other powders. This can wreck havoc with particle problems on your negatives.

 

I know a lot of us try to get by 'on the cheap' with this hobby, but honestly, it ain't worth ruining one's health because you can't pop for a $5 box of gloves. It also keeps skin oils off your film.

[lee england]

I used to be able to handle prints barehanded in the developing trays but

eventually developed rashes and had to stop the practice. The worst was

getting Kodak's Brown Toner on my fingers. I tried medical vinyl gloves but

the developer (Dektol) would come through the gloves when I picked up the

print with thumb and forefinger and transferred it to the stop. So I started

using tongs and gloves and have done fine. Since the chemicals came

through the medical gloves and since they're hard to get on and off and your

hands stay damp within them, I've switched to gloves I buy in a hardware

store. They heavier, made of cotton and have heavy layers of latex or PVC

coating them. Doing fine now, but don't keep trying to fight the chemicals;

things only get worse.

[robert_davis2]

You can get heavy chemical gloves. They aren't very expensive and no photochemical should be able to get by them. In normal use.

 

 

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?SID=&ccurrency=1&page=31200&category=1,42207

 

Something like these.

 

What's the pH of Rodinal could that be the problem? That stuff must be pretty concentrated.

[dk_thompson]

Kodak has some safety info on chemical handling and contact dermatitis among other topics. Here's a link to their safety & environmental site:

 

http://www.kodak.com/country/US/en/corp/environment/kes/faq/faq300.jhtml

 

fwiw, I've worked in a lab for over ten years and a similar thing happened to me last year....I went to a dermatologist, and through a process of elimination, it turned out to be the skin cleanser we use in our lab, not any of the E6 or b&w chemicals. I always wore (still do) gloves to develop film, mix chemistry or tray process prints. For tray processing, I wear gloves and use tongs....but I use mostly processors for prints, so that limits my exposure considerably. I looked at everything--we're required by law to have copies posted of every MSDS for every chemical in our lab. Even down to photoflo. I switched from latex to nitrile and vinyl gloves. It took me a long time--several months to get over it, using steroid based prescription creams and basically avoiding even water or anything on my hands at all costs. They were beyond dry & irritated--they were cracked and bleeding. I thought I was gonna have to find another job....what I have is basically a form of dermatitis on my hands only. It comes & goes and I'm still battling it, when they get really irritated, it's too late. Even getting them wet bothers them. They're the worst in the winter--when it's cold & dry, of course. Everyone who doesn't work in a lab, will tell you to "just wear gloves"--but they don't understand what working in a darkroom entails. The dry side, the wet side etc. But you need to do things like either trash those gloves after each use, or wash them as you would your hands, and periodically wash the insides as well etc. Or wear disposable gloves inside them too. You get used to it after awhile, but it seems like a PIA at first. I also started wearing safety goggles for mixing chemistry, and running film, after a trip to the eyewash during the middle of a deeptank run several years ago--real fun in a pitch black room. ....BTW--stay away from latex if you can. Like the guy said above, it's really bad news for some people and you can get sensitized to that too. OSHA has alot about this, if you look at their website you can find alot of documents about protective gear for labwork and safe handling of chemicals. Good luck. Opinions expressed in this message may not represent the policy of my agency