concerned about getting new body...

[hnl_imaging]

<p>Have K200 which has developed some rather odd problems. <br>

Would love to get K3, K5II or possibly even K50 as replacement, however, I am a little concerned about the reliability of any of them with all the various possible issues that I am seeing coming up with them. <br>

I am also desiring better autofocus speed and high ISO capability from the K200. My main subjects are 2 and 4 year old kids and landscapes... the kids are fast and often indoors. ISO 400 is questionably acceptable on K200, 800 is pretty bad usually. Would like to do better. <br>

I only have 2 lenses, the 20-40 ltd and the 70 ltd. I am really attached to the 20-40 and so-so about the 70 so far. Either way they are better than the entry level lenses from Canon and Nikon so I would like to keep them...<br>

But I have been considering going back to Canon or going to Nikon for a fix to all of the above issues as well. I would really like to keep that Pentax look and my lenses though. <br>

Is the Pentax reliability or product quality really as bad as it looks like it is on the various forums? Is it worth taking a risk with a K3 or K5II/s? possibly a K50?</p>

[jeff_drew4]

<p>Jason, I have the K200 as my primary DSLR still, and shoot film a great deal - medium format for serious landscapes. I wish I had the 20-40mm ltd lens! The K200 has been a fine starter for me in the digital world. If you want a body upgrade, I would pick the K3 out of your choices. If you have a bit more budget, the K3II gives you the pixel shift feature which is proving to be an excellent landscape/architecture option. This is the model likely to suck me further into Pentaxia digitalis! Regarding the kids stuff; the newer bodies & technology tend to work faster & yield good results for a longer time. The improvements jump from K200 to K3 is huge in several areas! I'm looking forward to it! Re: the negative comments on many forums; I get tired of trying to sift thru what is fact of fiction in many of these fora. I have never owned Canon, but had extensive Nikon before Pentax. Based on history, Pentax & Nikon are excellent tools. Now in the digital world, I am seeing that Sony, Fuji, etc can do some exceptional things and the choices are not limited to Canikon, or Pentax. It makes the decision to change difficult given all the lenses one has collected over the decades. </p>

[hnl_imaging]

<p>Yeah, sifting through the garbage is quite difficult...<br>

I am only really getting rid of the K200 because it developed some interesting quirks that impact its usefulness when my daughter pulled it off the table a few months back... but an upgrade at the same time would be nice.<br>

Do you see any real differences between your pentax and nikon gear as far as reliability/ useability?<br>

What about lens quality</p>

 

[AJG]

<p>I won't say that Pentax is perfect, but I shoot professionally and I use my equipment heavily. The Pentax DSLRs I have owned (istD,K10,K20, K7, K5 and K3) have all been very rugged and reliable, with not a single repair to date. The K3 is a great camera, with much improved auto focus over the earlier models and it is a great buy at $650 or so from B&H and other sellers. And no, Pentax has never given me any free equipment. What I have seen over time with web reviews and forums is that people complain about problems and sometimes that goes viral and the "common knowledge" is that a certain product is garbage, period. A lot of that kind of commentary is ill informed at best, and sometimes completely inaccurate . Having said that, of course, I can only supply a few data points about Pentax bodies from my personal experience. Good luck on your new camera, whatever it turns out to be. </p>

[MattB.Net]

<p>If you like a bigger camera, get a K-3 and grip. <br>

If you prefer smaller there's the K-S2, K-50, and the whole K-5ii line is in the middle. Not really a bad camera to be had from them these days. I have both the K-S2 and K-3 and like them for different applications. The K-S2 and the svelte Limited lenses really pair nicely and the K-3 with grip goes well with the flash and a big lens mounted. <br>

Any of these newer cameras will be a big IQ upgrade from your old one at high ISO. </p>

[hnl_imaging]

<p>has any one had any dealings with the Pentax customer service?</p>

[stemked]

<p>All I can say is my K3 was dragged all over he** and back (especially Australia). It looks tattered and torn, but it works like a dream. As a nature photographer mostly I make little effort to pamper my equipment. I have had issues with my K10D even a couple of quirks with the K7, but, and this is likely my highest praise, the K3 and K5iis, are my most reliable cameras since my Spotmatic and LX.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>One thing to keep firmly in mind is that the internet is very good at reporting problems, and many people claim product issues when it is either their camera that simply malfunctions (which happens with any brand) or they don't know yet how to operate it (happens <em>a lot</em> with higher end cameras with advanced tricks). Plus, people do not tend to report on the internet when all is well. Unless, like here, you ask for it, and you find people are actually fine.<br>

So, do not read too much into product issues. All brands make their screw-ups at times, not all products are equally rounded, but the last few years for all I see, Pentax has had nice launch after nice launch while both Nikon and Canon dropped the quality control ball on several occassions (and lately mostly Nikon, I have to say-and I use Nikon gear mostly). So, the grass isn't greener elsewhere.</p>

[hnl_imaging]

<p>Thanks for sharing the experiences/ encouragement. It has been quite difficult trying to decide if I should break away from Pentax. Good to know that there are some happy K3 owners</p>

[john_shriver]

<p>I'm a very happy K5 owner. The K5 was the first "top tier" Pentax DSLR with really good low-light sensitivity.<br>

Yeah, my *ist DS2 failed suddenly. It happens. Especially with the European RoHS regulations about solder, dooms all electronics to a 10-year lifetime, at which time tin whiskers short them out.</p>

 

[michael_kuhne]

<p>I believe my K-5IIs has more reliable AF than my original K-5. The "S" means it has no AA filter for extra sharpness of detail. The filter is supposed to reduce moire effects that can occur under certain circumstances. I have not yet seen moire, but I guess it could occur. The sharpness and low light/high ISO lower noise are really good. </p>

<p>I have the K200D. but may replace it with the KS2 as my compact weather-sealed model soon. The KS2 has special features like the flip-out LCD screen and wifi. It is very compact and extremely well-built, but it is not of professional design standards like the K-5 or K-3. If you buy it, get extra batteries to charge up, because it runs low rather soon if you are shooting a lot. But it may also take commonly AA lithiums via an optional adaptor like the K-r does, in case you're in a pinch.</p>

<p>The K-5 or K-3 are different animals than you are used to. Very rugged They are of professional design, having that type of control layout. No "scene" modes on the mode dial. AF motors are heavier duty, and probably faster. More controls on body instead of in menu. The K-3 has no AA filter, but a type of AA filter can be switched on if moire is detected. AA filters reduce moire by smoothing, which can also reduce fine detail. The compact KS2 also has this switchable feature. The K50 is discontinued and I think the KS1 as well. but still available. The K-5, K-3 and KS2 all have 2-dial thumb and finger operation, which is faster for making adjustments. The fast, exclusive Pentax Hyper system is fully available.</p>

<p>The lenses you have are outstanding for image quality and build. You might want to consider adding a fast f/1.4 or f/1.8 50mm lens for low light, or fast action use.</p>

<p>Prices now on all the models mentioned are at bargain levels. </p>

<p> </p>

[hnl_imaging]

<p>Michael, its funny that you should mention the body differences... I came to Pentax primarily due to monetary reasons. I used to use Canon gear. I ended up having to sell all of it, a 1N, 30D, 10D, 5D and a few lenses, and tried to live with just a point and shoot for a couple of years. <br>

The G15 I bought ended up being a pretty great little camera in many respects, however, it seems like the designers of point and shoot cameras purposefully dumb down the cameras either to make you wish you had an SLR or possibly due to some hardware constraints. I feel like most of it would be the later... It was a great learning experience. <br>

I got into Pentax because I couldn't part with the lenses and film gear my dad gave me (all pentax stuff...) and the pentax bodies worked with the old manual lenses. So I bought a cheap, very well used k200d from keh. It has been an outstanding little camera. I have 3, well now 4, little issues with it.<br>

First, prefocusing with manual lenses is actually faster and some times less irritating than the autofocus... <br>

Second, i really hate not having separate controls for aperture and shutter speed. <br>

Lastly, I think that this is mostly due to the AA batteries or maybe its a Pentax thing... Trying to do a 15-30 second exposure locks the K200 up for a LONG time. <br>

Lastly, somehow, the modes all got switched around, night scene mode now resides in 3 places on the dial, manual mode (which i use exclusively...) is now sensitivity priority or some such garbage, program mode has 2 places, etc... I took my camera out one day after I hadn't picked it up in a few weeks and realized that I didn't have the info i was used to in the viewfinder display and couldn't figure out why. I started playing with it and its a bit quirky. All modes but aperture priority are stuck in auto ISO and I cant get them out. Manual mode doesn't exist (which makes this camera almost useless for how I shoot). SO I have been trying unsuccessfully to get by with aperture priority, which is kind of like skipping around in circles on one foot with your hands tied to a car traveling the opposite direction. <br>

But the IQ is pretty great. Overall it feels great. <br>

I really would like to get back into a body that was more like my 5D or 1N. No stupid scene modes, good auto focus (well the 1N had that... not so much the 5D...), easy to use controls, and the best view finder I can get. View finders, I found , are critical. The smaller cameras have 2 real problems- the view finders are too small and dim, and the controls are only half there. </p>

[AJG]

<p>A couple of points--the better Pentax bodies such as the K5 and K3 have separate control dials for f/stop and shutter speed, so that issue will be solved. The long exposure issue--it probably isn't the AA batteries, it is the fact that the camera is making a second blank exposure to control noise that you can get from a long exposure. I think you could turn this off in the menu, but I'm not sure, and I don't know how much this feature improves quality. </p>

[hnl_imaging]

<p>Interesting...<br>

I was thinking about asking if any other bodies had the same kind of issues with long exposures in another post. <br>

Thanks for the tip. </p>

[andrewg_ny]

<p>Jason, I think any of the dual-dial models would satisfy your ergonomics requirements. The K200D itself was essentially a marriage of K10D guts & weather sealing with K100D's viewfinder & ergonomics. So any of K10D, K20D, K-7, K-5*, K30, K50, K3* would probably be suitable. All have better pentaprism viewfinders (K-7 and later have 100% coverage).</p>

<p>If buying today on a budget, I'd probably aim for at least a K-5. The 16mp Sony CMOS sensor is notably better than the 14mp Samsung sensor in its predecessor K-7 and K20D, and you already know what the 10MP CCD in the K10D/K200D can do. If you're generally happy with performance and IQ with your K200D, a K10D, K20D, or K-7 will still be as good or better though in pretty much all aspects (except for AA battery support, if you like that).</p>

<p>The AF has generally improved over time. It still probably doesn't match some of the competition but the better bodies generally have stronger AF motors. Starting with K-5ii, the AF sensors became more sensitive and now generally work better in lower light.</p>

<p>As Andrew Gillis noted, that long exposure issue is by design, I think it's typically called 'dark frame subtraction' or 'long exposure noise reduction'...and the length of time for that second exposure matches the time of the shot you just took. If you search for these terms, I think you'll see other photographers discussing (complaining about) it -- some models *might* allow it to be turned off, but in others turning it off (if possible) might require accessing a hidden debug menu. Some cameras might have different shutter speed thresholds for when it gets enabled or possibly dependent on shooting mode (bulb vs. M vs. Av vs Tv etc.).</p>

[AJG]

<p>If you like AA batteries for a power supply, the accessory battery grips for K7, K5, and K3 all allow use of AA batteries or an extra lithium ion battery in the grip. The grip for the K7 works on the K5's, the K3 takes a newer model. Personally, one of the most positive changes going from the original istD to the K10 was getting rid of rechargeable NiMh AA batteries that seemed to die quickly and unexpectedly compared to the lithium batteries. I recognize that if you're traveling off the grid for an extended period that the AA batteries might be a better choice.</p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>Another difference is the KS2 having no top LCD info panel, which was sacrificed for more compactness. It is however, amazing for having the features it does plus weather sealing at its price point and for the type of camera it is. However, the K-5II(s) K-3, though somewhat larger, are still quite compact for the type of camera they are- professional controls, metal bodies, etc.</p>

<p>It sounds like you may be happier with a K-5II(s) or K-3 with your experience, though they are without the wifi and flip-out back LCD. Any of these 3 cameras will provide you with a better realization of the excellent image quality your fine lenses are capable of.</p>

<p>With the Pentax Hyper Program system, you may find yourself shooting in Program mode more often. If you are shooting photos of your kids for instance, and not happy with the shutter speed or aperture you are getting, you can simply use the finger or thumb dial to instantly dial in one of your preference without having to first go to the mode dial to change exposure modes to Av or Tv. It will stay at your setting until you turn the camera off, or hit the green button, which returns function instantly back to full Program. The system is very fast for making immediate changes on the fly. This, of course does not apply to your older manual lenses.</p>

<p>Of course, if you wish your setting to stay put when you'll be turning the camera off during a lull in activity, it would be better to use the mode dial.</p>

[hnl_imaging]

<p>interesting... that hyper program mode sounds kind of neat. <br>

I am one of those largely self taught photographers. I learned off of the old Ansel Adams books and the old national geographic field guides, the ones that were out before digital was really to far along. After I learned about setting those the parameters I never really did anything else, except with my phone. My brother in law, who has a bit more training than I do, swears by aperture priority so I gave that a shot under his recommendation and just never could get in the groove with it. I may have to try the hyper program thing though. Now that my K200 is permanently set in one of those modes it may be worth trying to get used to giving up some of the manual control until I get a new body. <br>

I know I am possibly beating a dead horse, but I found a couple of slightly used K5ii's for a decent price. I am having a hard time with the customer service/ reliability of gear issues still. My wife is kind of convinced that I would be throwing away money by continuing on with Pentax, however, its so hard to part with my 20-40. The 70 ltd I'm on the fence about... may not have enough experience with it yet, I just bought it before the camera started acting up so it hasn't seen too much use. <br>

You suppose that the company is worth sticking with? the gear reliable and possible to get fixed if I run into one of the issues? </p>

[stemked]

<p>Jason,<br>

If its any consolation my wife says the same thing about Pentax. She moved onto the Canon 7D herself (from a Pentax ZX-5n).She used to take stunning photos with the ZX-5n, now she lugs around her Canon manual on those few times she brings the 7D with her. Result? 95% of her photos are now with her iphone, 1% of mine are with my smartphone! (Of course maybe that just means though I need a better camera on my smartphone) ;)<br>

<strong>Doug<br /></strong><br>

<strong> </strong></p>

[hnl_imaging]

<p>Douglas, Awesome... <br>

I have found that the iphone, though seriously limited in some ways, can actually be quite good. I would rather go for a full sized camera but I admit to using the iphone pretty frequently as well. It replaced my wife's camera altogether. </p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>Using a Pentax DSLR which are relatively compact, with excellent Limited compact lenses, is a way of having full-featured excellence but still fairly compact. The K-5, II and IIs have remarkably quiet shutters. You will hardly realize the camera has fired. I do not have the K-3, but that is probably true with it also. Not so true with the other Pentax models. The K-5 series was replaced by the K-3. I can tell you the K-5IIs delivers remarkably detailed results, even at higher ISO settings, and left over new stock is bound to be at a very reasonable price, and will come with a company warranty. Check Amazon. The price of the K-3 has come down considerably by now. It does have the switchable AA filter, if ever needed. Its 23MP sensor is not as natively low-noise as that of that of the 16MP K-5 series, so it uses more aggressive noise reduction, but with still pretty good results, from what others have said.</p>

<p>I don't normally shoot in any particular mode. I always set my camera back to the Program mode when I am done. I use aperture priority only when control of aperture is meaningful for what I am doing. Likewise with shutter priority. I also shoot in Manual mode when that is best.</p>

<p>Like you and many here, I too am basically self-taught. When I started, there was no Program mode, aperture priority, shutter priority, or auto anything. Just in-camera match-needle metering. With every shot, if you moved the camera or the lighting changed, you had to read the meter, adjust your settings for exposure and focus manually. While still at times that is the best way to go, now there are more options and advanced technology, which can make for much faster operation. The Pentax Hyper system is really good engineering. dpreview raved about it back when they tested the K10D. There's also the Hyper manual operation. Great for spot-metering around a scene in Manual mode. To take readings, just hit the green button. It instantly sets your aperture and shutter speed according to the spot meter and gives you an exposure reading. You can then adjust the specific aperture/shutter speed to meet your need from there. You can hit the AE-L button to lock exposure, if you want a different aperture, then adjust it with the thumb dial and the shutter speed will follow along to keep exposure the same. Works the same way if you adjust shutter speed, aperture will follow along. It makes for very fast Manual mode operation. I think the K200D does have that feature for Manual mode. I have not been using mine for quite some time. </p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>Actually, I just checked around, and found out B&H now has the K-3 new at only $650!! It would cost about $100 more to buy a K-5IIs! Both originally sold for over $1,200. The K-3 is now an outgoing model, still produced but at the end of its model run. This is the time to buy at bargain prices. That is how I bought my K-5IIs, and previously my K20D. I bought mine for less than it sells for now, which is hard to understand.</p>

<p>Incidentally, since you mentioned viewfinders, all three models feature 100% coverage pro-quality pentaprism VFs, which your K200D does not. You will notice the difference in accuracy of your framing and overall quality. The K-5 series features magnification at 92%, while the K-3 and the little KS2 VF come in at 95% magnification. These are considerably greater than the magnification offered by those of Nikon or Canon.</p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>Oh, and that price is with free shipping, and for now at least, B&H is throwing in a free small Pentax hot-shoe flash. I have never seen that before. It may provide more reach than the built-in for times when you need a little more. </p>

[stemked]

<p>I like the K5iis, but I have seen its Achilles Heel a couple of times when I really needed that filter in place. I figured as a primarily nature photographer that the artifacts wouldn't be an issue, and they haven't for my nature work. But take a photo with repeatable structure such as a stripped shirt or a building with bricks in it and you have another issue.<br>

The K3 really is a sweet camera. Never worried about the humid/rainy weather in Costa Rica either when I used the 100mm f2.8 DAW macro, whereas my buddies Canon was carefully pampered.</p>

<p><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/18025245-md.jpg" alt="" width="680" height="451" /></p>

[michael_kuhne]

<p>Pentax models are exclusive, far as I know, in featuring switchable AA filtering. A great idea, I think.</p>