Do B&W prints from inkjet change with time?

[Raymond W]

<p>Just noticed that prints I made from inkjet (commercial printer) turned slightly yellow after about 1 year. Is this normal?<br>

Also, I use Photoshop to change color photos to B&W through channel mixing. The resulting images sometimes give me an impression of a slight color cast. Some prints would look slightly blueish and some slightly reddish. Not a problem by itself, but obvious when prints are placed side by side. This creates problem when a set of prints are presented together. Is there something I need to adjust for?<br>

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.<br>

TIA.</p>

[digitaldog]

<p>Could be an issue with OBA's in the paper which isn't all that stable. One year however isn't that long. <br>

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200702_rodneycm.pdf</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Which commercial printer are you using? Even a decent prosumer grade printer like the Epson 3880 will switch to B&W inksets when you tell it to - no color pigments are involved. Using good archival paper, stay away from dye-based printing, and render B&W using actual B&W inks, and you should be looking at a nice B&W print decades from now (as long as you don't hang it in the sun!).</p>

[david_henderson]

<p>I've had no visible changes in my commercially produced digital b&w prints over a period of about 6-7 years. The point here is that it might not be impossible for such changes to be seen, but that with the right lab/papers/inks then changes over short time periods are certainly not inevitable.</p>

<p>To be frank, I had more trouble with traditionally produced fibre prints from my lab, albeit that toning seemed to offer a degree of protection, though between the lab and I we never did really reach a satisfactory conclusion about why it happened .</p>

[tudor_apmadoc]

<p>It's true that the paper is important,</p>

<ul>

<li>Make sure the paper is archival type paper - Look at some of the papers from Hahnemuhle, etc Download the spec sheet for each paper, they will have info on any OBA's being used, whiteness rating, etc</li>

<li>Avoid resin back paper</li>

<li>Check out a site that does testing of printer / paper / ink combinations for longevity : http://www.wilhelm-research.com/</li>

</ul>

<p>If you are mounting / framing the print, the you have to attention to additional areas</p>

<ul>

<li>The backer / foam core board must be archival quality. Otherwise you risk that material "out gassing" something that will interact with your paper causing yellowing</li>

<li>When framing, the best is to use glass, however if you want to use something else, I recommend an archival acrylic with UV filtering</li>

</ul>

 

[dave_reichert1]

Matt Laur: "Even a decent prosumer grade printer like the Epson 3880 will switch to B&W inksets when you tell it to - no

color pigments are involved."

 

I use a 3880, and as far as I know, that option isn't available in the Epson driver, except for Draft quality on plain paper. If

it is, I'd like to know where to find it.

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Matt Laur: "Even a decent prosumer grade printer like the Epson 3880 will switch to B&W inksets when you tell it to - no color pigments are involved."<br>

I use a 3880, and as far as I know, that option isn't available in the Epson driver, except for Draft quality on plain paper. If it is, I'd like to know where to find it.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You really <strong>don't</strong> want to print with just black ink and the <em>Advanced B&W</em> which you might wish to use certainly prints with some but not all pigmented color inks. </p>

[dave_reichert1]

Believe me, Andrew. I have no interest in printing "black only" for my regular photography. If it were available though, I

could think of a few things I'd like to experiment with...

[Raymond W]

<p>Thanks to everyone for the reply. Talked to the lab today and they said the printer profile could have changed, whatever that means. But they are willing to give me free prints to replace the tinted ones. I have a feeling they don't really know the answer. I will try another lab and see.</p>

<p> </p>

[david_henderson]

<p>To address the second part of your question. </p>

<p>In the channel mixer dialog box there is, at the bottom, a box marked "monochrome" if you check that you should not be able to see colour casts in your image if your screen is calibrated decently. Even if you can see a cast your printer would not, assuming their screen is calibrated correctly.</p>

<p>Otherwise if you are sending to your lab images which really do have a colour cast, you shouldn't be surprised if that cast comes right back to you on a print. It is extremely unlikely that your lab will be switching to a b&w inkset whenever people send them a few monochromes to print. It just wouldn't be worth all the time and wasted ink. You need to be sure that what you send them is neutral -if that's what you want - using their profile. Or of course lightly coloured or toned if that happens to be what you desire. I tend to tone in Lightroom to a set recipe. "Different every time" tends not to work well as you've found for yourself if you then treat the prints as a portfolio.</p>

[PaulWhiting]

<p>May I suggest two sources of archival b/w printing? The first is where I've learned about how to achieve quality b/w prints and the second is a compilation of rigorous tests of various ink/paper/printer combinations:<br>

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/<br>

http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/</p>

<p>Some folks have had good experiences with another approach, but myself I haven't tried it:<br>

http://www.piezography.com/PiezoPress/</p>

<p>Paul</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Talked to the lab today and they said the printer profile could have changed, whatever that means.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It means BS! Find another lab. A profile has no role in how a print will alter after a year, turning yellow. <br>

Got a blacklight? You know, the ones from the 60's and 70's that when shined on your white socks in a dark room fluoresces? Those are OBAs. View paper white with such a flashlight (LED's are cheap and available these days), if you see the paper fluoresces, it's OBAs and they fade and turn color over time. This has absolutely nothing to do with profiles, the lab is basically lying or don't have a clue about profiles and color management! </p>

[Raymond W]

<p>Thanks David, Paul and Andrew:<br>

Very useful information. See if I can do better in the next batch.<br>

There is so much to learn about doing digital B&W!<br>

Raymond</p>

 

[zelph_young]

<p>Everything changes with time. Digital inks are not all equal. Some colors in the print are more fugitive than others - will fade faster.<br>

If you want the print to last you use Pt/Pd or Carbon - hand coated and poured processes. Platinum and Carbon do no degrade. The limiting factor will be what substrate is used.</p>