what has this site become?

[think27]

Re: Doug's wondering why others leave critiques.. One important reason is that when I was a very enthusiastic newcomer to photography I had a very talented photographer take me under her wing. She mentored me and critiqued my work and was kind enough to share all her secrets. I also had a lab where the technicians would tell me what I was doing wrong and what I was doing right. Due to their kind and constructive help - I make a living doing something I love. I like to pass that on. <p> Another other reason is to show appreciation for good work. <p> And lastly, there is precious few honest critiques and because I am not caught up in any care about rating retaliation, I'm free to be honest. My hope is that newcomers coming upon an average or flawed photo that is rated 7/7's and 6/6's across the board will get to see a few comments that might bring up thought provoking questions as to what is "excellence." <p> I must say though, Doug's list was extremely entertaining and made me smile.

[steve coburn]

What makes a photo average? Isn't it all down to subjective opinion? One self proclaimed 'serious photographer' has a lot of bland, dull images on their own web page. I wouldn't give these images the time of day, but the photographer must have thought them special.

 

 

Taking a parallel wih the 'art' world. I hate the Mona Lisa, I really do, yet I love the works of MC Escher. My opinions of other people's photos mean very little. The only opinion of my photos that matters is my own. And as I've concluded that most of my photos are too awful to post to the site I have only one photo posted at the moment.

 

 

Maybe the rating system should be changed to "Hate (1)", "Couldn't care less about (2)" and "Like (3)". Then everyone would know it was subjective and there could be no complaints about 'abuse' of the system - where obviously less talented photographers than oneself obtain better marks than ones own far superior photographs - which I imagine is the root of most of the complaints.

 

Steve C

[mmmee]

Peter

 

The numbers on my photo weren't meaningless to the people who put them there. The reasons run the gamut of Doug's list. The comments were likewise varied including assumptions, observations and quite a lot of fun. Its what you call a controversial photo, I suppose. When we upload photos people are allowed to critique or rate as they please. Now, for a beginner here on photo.net some of the things on that particular photo would have sent them scurrying for the apron strings. I am not saying everyone should have that kind of reaction to a photo, but some of us ask for it and get it. Perhaps I am a controversial person. It does not take a genius to figure out how to engineer sugar coated compliments and 6.. 7.. ratings and punctuation marks for critiques. I have done it. That, to me is some of what is wrong with photo.net. Also, as Mary has said, too many people are going without any attention whatsoever. I go through a few, once in a while, but I do not really know enough about how to critique. There could be some very excellent beginning photographers that will never see the light of day. Fortunately for me, I have had enough coaching and help and know that I can find information in old threads, on old portfolios; or, if I have a specific question on one of my photos I have been known to ask someone who does that kind of photo, for help. When ever I have asked the person has responded to my question. And not in private e mail, where it does no one else any good, but on photo.net, where people can see the response from the expert.

 

Maybe we should have a welcoming committee for the newest subscribers. Comments would be needed to go with the ratings. But, hey, we don't need more rules, I don't think. There is no real solution. People will be human and act however they want to act. If you cannot get what you want out of photo.net there is no use complaining endlessly about it. Find a site that suits your needs.

 

How to make us more civil, caring and less mean spiritied? Andy, I just don't know the answer to that one. And yes, if we could figure that out, photo.net would be a lot nicer place. Perhaps we should be required to comment/rate at least 3 other photos on upload. I don't like all the 'rules and regulations' though. It gets too cumbersome. It also flies in the face of Doug and Marc's legitimate concerns. Perhaps if we get those ever asked for Curators, we can go to their pages of critiques for information. The rest of us should then try to spread our comments and ratings around to people who never have any attention. Even, if they don't respond. I have done a few recently and you get retaliations for any honest lower rates you give with no comment, you get nothing in return, or you can get a return of another comment of some value, you get almost predictable results, except for the no returns.

 

As is being said in other threads, I believe we need the 'curators' pages and critiques for anyone serious about photography, and leave the top photos pages as is for those who go there to satisfy their needs. How to make more people see your photo and react kindly to you? Perhaps if you gave out comments and ratings on others photos you would get them in return. But be prepared for the recalcitrant non return and for the low ratings with no comments. It happens, the world is not always a rose garden.

[choen]

Personally, I only want to know why my pictures work or do not. Why and how, in subjective terms.

 

A number (objective value) used to represent a viewer's preference (subjective value) of a photograph (an art, subjective value) is somewhat not right. It is not meaningless, but the meaning is lost as it get transformed into a number.

 

I look at an image, and see the rating '4/4', and wonder why is it so?

Why no body bothered to point out where it can improve? How did the viewer transfer or translate his or her preference into the set of numbers (each individual have different method)?

 

Why not, for the sake of everyone's sanity, just ditch the rating points system, and just allow space for comments to be made. Maybe then one would see how the '4/4' is just a translation of the comments 'I like this, but it is in front of my house and I see it everyday'.

 

Nobody learns art appreciation from numbers, but from comments and discussions. (Then again, in music industry terms, chart makers may disagree with this because getting into the top 10 will reflect more sales).

[hollysmile]

I don't know what this site was, but I do know that my experience here has been very good so far. I'm one of those dreaded 'newbies' making all those mistakes you guys apparently already made a hundred years ago :) But I have had some very helpful comments, some a little harsh, but that's what I'm here for, honest HELP.

 

I don't expect to be fawned over, courtesy is always nice, but not expected. (courtesy would be nice though) The comments I have recieved both good and bad, have actually been pretty specific and helpful. I am extremely greatful for any suggestions.

 

I don't think anyone expects every single one of their photos to get comments, I don't. If I learn just a little bit by reading the comments made to everyone, by following people's profiles and ratings etc. I can sort of make some sense as to what is and isn't something or someone I should take seriously, if that makes any sense.

 

For instance, if someone comes says 'this stinks' and I go to that persons portfolio and only see one photo there, and a whole history of telling folks how they 'stink', I'm probably not going to pay a whole lot of attention to that individual. Know what I mean?

 

But if someone tells me 'this stinks' and they have a portfolio of more than a couple of photos, and a history of positive critique, I'll probably listen to what they have to say, even if it is hard to take.

 

I really don't have anything to compare this site to, except my own experience, being here a week. But so far, I am very pleased.

I think you guys are great and I bow humbly to most of your talents.

 

holly:)