Nikon F3t/fm3a vs Leicaflex SL/ Leica R7

[paulo_teles]

Is the d700 a good alternative to the D3s... ??

 

 

Moneywise speaking, it is, but, what about the rest... ??

[Rick Helmke]

<p>I thought some more about this after I posted and think that in the situation you describe I'd go with a pair of F2 bodies and maybe two more stashed somewhere as backups. A motor drive would be optional. Get them serviced properly and you'll be fine. There are many places where I would rather have a solid mechanical film camera than anything digital. Carrying a lot of film is not as easy as carrying a few memory cards but it doesn't look like easy is what concerns you. Lose a card and lose several hundred images. Lose a couple of rolls of film and you lose maybe 72 images.</p>

<p>Rick H.</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>When we talk about ruggedness, I have to smile.<br /> A simple bad blow could ruin any flagship from Nikon, Leica or whatever.<br /> Many years ago, I used to carry with a Olympus XA to take summit photos, usually in below zero conditions. Or inside caves with very high humidity levels. It doesn`t matter, all batteries get bad with cold, and all glass get fogged when changing temperatures in humid conditions. These are the main problems.<br /> If there is rain over the camera, the F3 has a very weak weather protection. Recent top DSLR cameras and lenses are "weather resistant", but my D700 stopped working one day under a very soft rain, and got frozen another time very close to 0ºC. I have photos taken with my XA at -20ºC.<br /> So you have to protect any camera you were using. There is no "bulletproof" camera, nor lenses.<br /> Obviously, digital are better for everything, except for charging batteries and managing files if you are into really wild conditions. If you want to live ten days inside a tent in a base camp, I prefer to take a film camera and forget all that digital issues. Silver oxide button batteries last a lot! But you can ascend the Eiger or the Matterhorn, make a vivac there, and easily use a cellular phone to take all the photos (to carry a charged phone is a really safe choice these days, <em>anywhere</em>... are they bulletproof?).<br /> Do you know that cheap small video cameras?(the ones used attached to helmets). Is there any other video/photo thing used in more extreme conditions around the world?<br /> ---</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>Is the d700 a good alternative to the D3s... ??</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I`m still using a D700, and I`m so happy with it (specially this days, I have just cleaned the sensor! :) No need of using a bigger&heavier D3s to shoot my kids and weekend activities... (even with one, two or three stops of noise advantage).<br /> BTW, I`m wondering about the camera I`ll be using in two weeks at the mountains (ski touring in a high sierra), and I`m debating between the D700 (too big&heavy&cumbersome), a Leica M6/FM2 (film is very limiting) or a quality small film P&S... I`m towards the later for convenience&comfort, but with the D700 is so easy to take loads of photos. I`m not decided yet :/</p>

[luke_kaven]

 

<blockquote>

<p>Is the d700 a good alternative to the D3s... ??<br>

Moneywise speaking, it is, but, what about the rest... ??</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The D3/D700 use the same sensor. The sensor in the D3s was a new sensor, which solved a few problems with pattern noise and blooming at high gain settings. In other respects, the D700 is a fine rugged camera in a proven body. I'd give the flagship body an edge, but only you can decide how important that edge is to you. If you are not likely to exceed ISO 5000, then the D700 should be fine. With the D3s, you can go easily to ISO25600 without pattern noise. If you want to shoot by lanterns/candles, it is a very good camera for that, and the D700 is not.</p>

 

[luke_kaven]

<blockquote>

<p>Lose a card and lose several hundred images. Lose a couple of rolls of film and you lose maybe 72 images.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The solution is to back up to hard drive and the cloud. You could have all your film stock irradiated in a scanner, or seized by border guards, and there would be no back-up possible. </p>

[bob_h]

<p>For me, the best combo would be a Nikon Df body for digital and a FM3a or a well kept FM2n. Wide selection of lenses available used and new. In addition to Nikkors you can use Leica R lenses with a Leitax adaptor. About going to North Korea unrestrained.....not in this lifetime.</p>

[luke_kaven]

<p>It's hard to gauge Paulo's requirements for weather-resistance. The old F/F2/F3 did not like rain. We used a 'raincoat' that would screw onto the filter thread. I don't think the FMs liked rain. If they didn't like rain, they definitely didn't like snow and ice. They didn't mind the cold so much, so long as your lube held up. But they needed to stay away from direct moisture. This is all past tense. Today, they are old and hard to fix, even if your repair person even has a source for parts cameras. </p>

<p>The better DSLRs can go to Antarctica and take pictures. The film SLRs with good weather-sealing (I suppose the F5/F6, EOS 1) are all-electronic anyway. Why use film?</p>

<p> </p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>Paulo, if for the reasons you specify you prefer film (and some level of concern wrt cold, humidity and dust is justified when it comes to electronics - but any so also the F3, F100 and F6 are out), then out of my 3 cameras I listed before, I'd go with the FM2 actually (despite having read Luke's warning on rain - I haven't tested that yet). On a whole, the FM2 is a very well-rounded package: higher shutter speeds, fully mechanical, takes all Ai and AiS lenses which really suffices (pre-AI compatibility isn't that important if you don't have the lenses yet after all), not big nor heavy. Plus, most important, it is newer, sold in pretty high quantities so easier to find in a not-too-used state, easier to replace, and a great deal cheaper than a FM3a.<br>

I'm sure the F2 is a great camera, but it's not a very recent model. The F3 is already of pretty serious age. The mechanics will simply be more worn out. The Leica R6, R6.2 and R7 are also quite recent, and Sebastião Salgado used them in pretty harsh conditions, so they do have some pedigree as well. But as said before, my R6 doesn't feel as sturdy as the FM2.</p>

<p>There is no scientific testing whatsoever behind this last statement but realistically so far, other than anecdotes, this whole thread is devoid of solid data. So, guestimating, are cameras as the D3, D700, R7, FM3 or F3 going to survive? Well, most likely yes, and equally likely that any of those can cause issues in the conditions you describe. There is no real way of telling as the number of people that have done serious comparitive testing on a quantity significant enough to yield decent results is most likely about zero. You probably have to go a bit with your gut-feeling on this one.</p>

[dan_brown4]

<p>Gosh, if I was doing a full boot-up on a manual focus film system, I'd be looking long and hard at the Contax range and Zeiss lenses. Some really, really nice equipment.</p>

[Brad Cloven]

<p>I have the Nikon F3HP and I take it .....</p>

<p>..... nowhere.</p>

<p>My Nikon FEs do 99.9% of what the F3HP does, but with far less weight.</p>

<p>If I were going into a war zone with film, I would upgrade to the FM3A. That's a more modern version of the FE, which I would trust a bit more due to newness. Take 2.</p>

<p>Then, I'd take the classic AI (or AIS) primes: 24 or 28 (I prefer the 24), 50, 105. I went on my last trip to France with the 24 and 50. In the future, I think I'll be better off with the 24 and 105 and their foot-powered zoom features. Though I love my 105 so much its hard to think of damage in the field....</p>

<p>Two bodies, three primes. All classics. </p>

<p>Load up with Provia (more natural rendition and people) and Velvia (golden hour shooting of scenics). </p>

<p>Take a light tripod. When I'm doing urban shots, its secondary use is as a cudgel. I've warded off many a gypsy horde by raising it threateningly.</p>

<p>Have fun!</p>

<p> </p>

[paulo_teles]

@Luke Raven :

 

My approach to safekeeping the images Will probably rely in :

 

A Panasonic Toughbook cf19 mk6, with a Linux encrypted partition ( I have tweaked the crypto module api, so as to

implement a "custom" variation of AES... Larger keyspace bitsize, optimized S permutation tables, unbalanced network

design, these small changes in C, and a recompiled kernel module, should thwart any attempt to brute-force the partition

using differential cryptanalysis, for instance...)

 

An Iridium cell phone with satellite network access, connected to the laptop's interface.

 

A network visible IP of my own server at home with an ftp service active, allowing me to upload loads of data.

 

The weakest link here is probably : battery endurance, capability of all this to endure in harsh conditions.

 

Probably a full mechanical system as a backup for a dSLR.

 

@Brad Cloven :

 

I use a monopod... :) the carbon fiber type... I added a small weight to the thinner leg extreme, so that it is kinematically

balanced... Considering that the monopod extends to 1.80m, and I am 1.90m tall myself... Some guy once was aiming to

take my M3 away from me, in downtown Rio de Janeiro... Well... Lolll he learned the hard way what Kenjutsu is... :)

 

A bit as a side note... :/ I was absolutely puzzled that this dude, about his 20s years old, knew what a Leica M3 was... So

as to take his chance trying to take it away from me... I would figure that most ppl ( non conoisseurs ) would dismiss an

old looking chrome RF with some 35mm googles Leitz, as being a "valuable" item...

[Didier Lamy]

<p> "my options are Nikon f3t..."<br>

Paulo, why a "t" (titanium) F3? </p>

[paulo_teles]

<p>"my options are Nikon f3t..."<br />Paulo, why a "t" (titanium) F3?</p>

<p>Hi Didier</p>

<p>For a Materials engineering rationale... You see... in terms of Bulk modulus, Titanium is inferior to brass , but, from the standpoint of Specific Bulk modulus ( Modulus divided by density ) it is a superior material ( being also favourable in terms of thermal conduction and heat capacity ) ... this meaning that for the same volume, i have a more solid mechanical construction ( all remaining factor equal )...</p>

[luke_kaven]

<p>Hi Paulo -- [reminder my name is K-kaven. :-)]</p>

<p>So does this mean you are considering digital now? </p>

[paulo_teles]

Hi Luke Kaven

 

Yup...I will be taking a dSLR, a full mechanical slr, some nikkors, one or two Zeiss Zf, a teleconverter, my Panasonic

Lappy, my cell phone, and my monopod..

 

...they won't let me in their country with a S.A.D.M. :D

 

Just kidding here... But yup... I am considering digital.

[luke_kaven]

<p>That sounds like a good kit. The 28/2 Ai, 105/2.5 Ai are perpetual favorites. If you can find a good 200/4 Ai, it's a good very lightweight 200. The 75-150/3.5E is a cult classic. </p>

<p>I'll be very interested to hear about your adventures and to see what you bring back!</p>

[jeff h.]

<p>Hi Paulo, this is a very interesting thread!<br>

I've never photographed a war zone, but for years I carried an old Nikon EM and a Nikon 28E (or 45P) strapped to me with one of those binocular harness rigs while skiing, hiking, and traveling (a few times in places where the "rule of law" would have been slow to respond). I used a plastic bag to wrap the camera when it rained, and I just let it endure cold. It was cheap and effective (and, being both small and light, it didn't cave in my chest when I crashed while skiing). Thieves probably recognized it as having virtually no value. However, given your "bulletproof" prerequisite, I don't think the EM will work for you (the electronics are sketchy and the seals are all goo by now).<br>

If I wanted a camera that I could count on to work every time, I'd get an original Nikon F. It's the Colt SAA .45 of the camera world. If I wanted a more recent camera, I'd take my FM2n. If I wanted digital, I'd take a Df (or about ten D80 bodies, since they're so cheap).<br>

Years ago, I had a Leica R, and for years I had a M6. Both are long departed, as frankly I didn't get that much enjoyment from using them: to me, the R wasn't better than my Nikons, and I discovered that I don't really like the rangefinder method of focusing/viewing.<br>

As an aside, with your resume, I imagine that you would receive a LOT of attention from the current North Korean government...your visit will very likely be, shall we say, extended.<br>

Good luck, have fun, and post pictures!</p>

[royall_berndt]

Go for the Nikon. If you insist on Leica sharpness, which is a notch sharper than Nikon's, use Piccure softward on your digital scans from the Nikon and they'll be just as good.

[marc_ravignat]

<p>Why not just purchase a few Nikon FM's? They are cheap, simple, small and light, fully mechanical, and don't even need a battery to work. There are many for sale that still work perfectly including the simple light meter. IMHO simpler would be better if you are looking for reliability.</p>

[paulo_teles]

<p>Jaeazuzzzz F*%$ng Christ...<br /> <br />I just saw a Leicaflex SL2 today, chrome.... such a beauty, pristine... viewfinder clear... no scuffings, nothing.... i purchased it, 240 Eur...</p>

<p>I am not changing my mind about what systems to take in my next trip....i would never consider taking with me the entire bulk of 2 differents systems + lenses... so, my decision remains... i will take Nikon film SLR body + Nikon dSLR body, and use the same lenses on both... simple as that....</p>

<p>But g0000shhhh.. I will have to try this Leicaflex SL and buy some 2,3 Cam lenses for it... :)<br /> <br />That camera is so much "me"... kkkk :D ... simple, heavy, big, efficient....<br /> <br />this is the kind of thing you expect from the dudes that built the DKM Bismarck, or the DKM Tirpitz, back in the 30s... or Build Mercedes today... <br /> in a word... Impressive.</p>