Will We See More "Refurbished" D750

[bgelfand]

<p>According to this post on Dpreview:</p>

<p>http://www.dpreview.com/articles/4170563047/nikon-usa-addresses-disappearance-of-d750-from-retailers</p>

<p>Nikon has pulled D750 from dealers to correct the flare problem. After Nikon has opened the packages, examined the cameras, and made corrections where necessary, will these cameras be sold as "new" or as "refurbished"? </p>

<p>If refurbished, we should see a good buying opportunity.</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>I think Nikon is over-reacting a bit, after all the bad publicity from the D600 sensor oil/dust issue. The problem with both the D600 oil issue and the D750 flare issue is that neither one is clear cut. It is not like the old D70 BGLOD (blinking green-light of death) problem where the camera simply wouldn't switch on any more, which is easy to identify.</p>

<p>In the D600's case, it is totally normal that a DSLR sensor has some dust. Dust vs. oil is unclear and so is what is an excessive amount. The D750 flare/shadow issue is also unclear. As studies have pointed out, a lot of DSLRs have similar issues if you have a light source in front of the camera, but it is worse on some D750.</p>

<p>I think Nikon is getting ahead of the issue and is inspecting all unsold D750 and mark down their serial numbers. If in the future a customer complains, Nikon will know that particular unit has been checked. The problem is going to be the ones that are already sold, and I am a proud owner of one of those. There will be a lot of confusion because this is not a black-and-white issue.</p>

<p>It is unclear what percentage of D750 is affected. I would imagine that those without issues will go right back to dealer stock. Some will be fixed and become refurbished. Now I am forced to check my D750 and if it is fine, I am going to ignore any potential recall as I am a firm believer that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think the D750 is an excellent camera; however, I am a bit concerned that its construction is not as robust as something like a D800 and D810, but that is a different topic.</p>

[vilk_inc]

<p>i was always wondering--what makes a camera "refurbished?" if they pull it off the shelf before it ever got sold, then fix it, how is it different from doing it right the first time around, in factory? kind of a "delayed QA," not much more. wouldn't all these "pulled" D750s return to market as regular items?</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p><a href="/photodb/user?user_id=3913334">Helen Oster </a>from Adorama has explained a few times what refurbished products are. Helen is a great resource here and has helped me a couple of times, but she is an Adorama employee and is, IMO, putting a more positive spin on refurbished products as her store is selling them. Personally, I have had some bad experience with refurbished Nikon lenses (never tried cameras myself), but apparently others have much better luck than I do.</p>

<p>See Helen's explanations:</p>

<ul>

<li>http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00ay28</li>

<li>http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00bwZu</li>

</ul>

[vilk_inc]

<p>wow! so the manufacturer willingly marks down items adjusted to spec while still in factory? impressive... restores my faith in free market :)<br>

thanks</p>

[bgelfand]

<blockquote>

<p>if they pull it off the shelf before it ever got sold, then fix it, how is it different from doing it right the first time around, in factory? kind of a "delayed QA," not much more.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I think it is considerably different. In the factory the camera is assembled on an assembly line, by people and/or robots that do one task and then pass it on to the next station. The person or robot is an expert in that one phase of construction. The camera is built up. Then it goes through factory Quality Assurance before being packed and shipped. </p>

<p>In repair, the camera is first torn down, and then built up by a person who does many tasks not just one - a "jack-of-all-trades". Then it goes through repair facility, not factory, Quality Assurance before being packed and shipped.</p>

<p>I sent my F100 film camera to Nikon for a simple cleaning. It took four trips to Nikon service to get it right. To their credit Nikon did fix the things that they broke and paid for transport both ways, but ... That experience leaves me with doubts about the repair facility Quality Assurance.</p>

 

[ShunCheung]

<p>Brooke, I assume your F100 cleaning was necessary, but otherwise, I can't say it enough times: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Because it can get worse.</p>

[bgelfand]

<p>Thank you, Shun, for the references to Helen Oster's posts. If her understanding of refurbished holds true for the D750 cameras pulled from retailer's shelves, the cameras should be sold as refurbished.</p>

<p>We should see some interesting deals from Adorama, B&H, KEH, and Cameta in a little while.</p>

[bob_flood1]

<p>I agree with Shun - if it ain't broke and you try to fix it, you can't make it better. But you can make it worse.</p>

<p>A suggestion: I suspect that one or more states have consumer protection laws that differentiate between "factory new" and "refurbished" with carefully crafted definitions and legal requirements for labeling the merchandise. I don't see any practical way to control the sale of an item as new in one state that allows it and as refurbished in another, given the nature of interstate sales and, of course, the internet. So Nikon may sell unsold but repaired merchandise as refurbished for regulatory compliance reasons.</p>

[rick_m.]

<p>Second on what Cheung is saying. I would never send a fully functional camera to Nikon repair services. I don't send my cameras to anyone I can't call on the phone. </p>

[bgelfand]

<blockquote>

<p>Brooke (sic), I assume your F100 cleaning was necessary,</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, it was. The house caught fire and was filled with smoke. We did not lose much, but smoke permeated everything. It all had to be cleaned, an expensive proposition thankfully covered by insurance.</p>

<p>I posted about my experience here: <a href="/nikon-camera-forum/00TqTk">http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00TqTk</a></p>

<p>and here: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00UKqc<br>

and here: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00UVod<br>

and finally here: http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00UcQ3</p>

<p>Oh, my name is Brooks with an "s" not an "e"; I am very definitely a "he". <grin></p>

<p> </p>

[ShunCheung]

Sorry about the typo. If it ain't Brooks, don't fix it.

[bgelfand]

<blockquote>

<p> If it ain't Brooks, don't fix it.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Oh, bad, Shun; bad Shun! (Actually it's a good pun <grin>)</p>

 

[mervyn_wilmington]

<p>Whilst this may be a little off the exact topic, isn't there rather more to the concept of refurbished, at least in the UK?</p>

<p>I have never bought a refurbished dslr, but over recent years I have bought five refurbished digital compacts. Two Nikon, two Panasonics, and a Fuji. All were 'distance' purchases. One of the Panasonics had very slight signs of use. The other four were totally immaculate.</p>

<p>I didn't speak to the companies that sold the Nikons, but I contacted those for the Panasonics and the Fuji. They were remarkably open. The one that sold the Fuji said that they retailed hundreds of so-called refurbished cameras, not just Fuji ones. They would arrive at their store 'by the dozen' in original packing cases. They would take the cameras out of the individual boxes, crumple the instruction book a little and knock the box around so as to give the impression that the camera had been used. It seems that this was to disguise what was happening so as not to upset other dealers who were selling the same product 'new' and without the massive discount of the 'refurbished' ones.</p>

<p>The company selling Panasonics gave a similar account, although occasionally they got batches that had been used. They said that I could always ask them to look through their stock for one that was clearly new.</p>

<p>Make of it what you will.</p>

[kohanmike]

<p>I bought one D70s and two D300s refurbs and all never had a problem.</p>

[Matthew Currie]

<p>Mervyn, I think part of what is happening here is a result of the return policies on goods. I have known a few people who avail themselves of return policies to "race" goods. Buy three different versions of something, decide which one you like, and return the losers for a full refund. The result is refurbished goods that have, essentially, never been used except perhaps to turn them on. We probably all pay a little extra to support that policy, so we might as well benefit from it and buy the refurbs.</p>

<p>I've always bought refurbished computers. I figure either they're either new, or, in the repair, have just been subjected to a higher level of quality control than you get at the factory. </p>

[mervyn_wilmington]

<p>Matthew, I have no doubt that what you say is true. However, dealers seem to declare when something has been a 'return'. Sometimes they add 'refurbished' or checked by manufacturer.</p>

<p>Factory returns might have been involved in some cases at the Panasonic dealer I contacted, but I very much doubt it in relation to the Fuji one. I think this 'refurbished' or 'reconditioned' story may be more common that we realise.</p>

<p>There used to be a store not too far from us that sold current professional level Black & Decker power tools. They were described as reconditioned. The discount on them was enormous. I went there to buy a circular saw. The man produced the model I wanted. It was in a plastic bag. To me, everything in the bag looked brand new. There was not a mark or sign of use anywhere. Nevertheless, I asked him whether it was likely to have a normal life expectancy. He said that about once a month they went to the regional wholesaler with a list of the power tools they wanted. The man there looked at the list and took boxed items off the shelf, took the tools out and put them into the plastic bags. He had no doubt they were brand new.</p>

<p>A year or two later I wanted a professional level De Walt router. I went to a 'factory outlet' where the prices were remarkably low. It was claimed that tools were refurbished or reconditioned, I can't remember which. The router was produced. This was in its original box. There not a mark, scrape or scratch anywhere, and certainly no sign of repaint. I said to the man that it was obviously new. He looked at me but did not demur.</p>

<p> </p>

[paul_soohoo2]

"Shun said, if it ain't broke don't fix it"

 

While I subscribe to this, why are cameras different from other devices. I regularly do preventive maintenance (pm) on many things. For

example I could ride my bike thousands of miles and never lube or replace the chain because it works. However without proper pm you

are asking for a big repair bill to replace the entire drive train.

 

Is the difference between electronic vs mechanical devices?

[ShunCheung]

<p>At least when I am talking about "fixing," I am not at all talking about preventive maintenance. For example, living in the San Francisco area, I am not far from the ocean. Frequently there is salt mist on my cameras and lenses, and I use a damp towel to wipe them down. And I clean the front elements of my lenses once in a while.</p>

<p>Fixing meaning taking things apart ....</p>

<p>I'll wait another week or two until Nikon provides more details on the nature of the D750 "flare" issue and fix. Before that, this article on imaging-resource has plenty of details; we'll see how that compares to official info from Nikon:<br>

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/12/24/nikon-d750-flare-problems-heres-why-and-what-to-do-about-them-its-not-lens<br>

As far as I can tell, the repair may require adjusting the AF module, etc. Therefore, a repair that is not done well may potentially affect the AF performance on the camera, among other potential issues.</p>

<p>Yesterday, I finally took my D750 out and captured a bunch of images with lights near the center top or bottom of the frame, and I could not generate the banding once. In fact, I have never had that problem during normal shooting with two different D750 bodies. Eventually, I set the D750 in live view mode and then shone a flashlight into the front of the lens. With the flashlight just outside of the top of the frame from a particular angle, I can indeed see some banding, but that effect is not easy to generate even on purpose. It is like 3 years ago I tried to generate moire on purpose with the D800E; that was not easy and was hit and miss.</p>

<p>Having figured out that routine, I shone a flashlight onto a D810. In that case if the light is coming just outside of the bottom of the frame, I can get some banding also. I have yet to go through that routine with other bodies.</p>

<p>Perhaps these tests are totally off base. As I said, I'll wait a bit to see what Nikon has to say. However, as long as this "problem" is very unlikely for me to encounter in real life shooting, I am not going to take any chances on messing up the AF capability on my D750. AF on the D750 is still the Multi-CAM 3500 with the 15 cross-type AF points concentrated in the center of the frame. That is a known limitation since the D3 in 2007; other than that, AF works very well (at least on mine) and IMO it is not a good idea to fix it.</p>

<div></div>

[ShunCheung]

<p>Since Nikon has now provided info on repair, I am going to redirect discussion to the main thread on this service advisory, also started by Brooks (spelled correctly :-) ). Future price fluctuation for the D750 is merely speculation. Like any other DSLR and high-tech electronics, prices will certainly go down over time.</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00d3cZ</p>