Backing Up Your Work?

[EricM]

<blockquote>

<p>If and when I'm working on the computer, I don't want CrashPlan in any way taking over the processes or uploading data and guess what, it doesn't. It does it when the computer is idle which is why the smart people at CrashPlan built the product that way.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Are you on a four year old mac book pro or something?</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Seems you've lost data.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>How did you come to that conclusion?</p>

<p>Steven, no one has suggested Crashplan be your only back up regime. After hdd duplicates and dvd's, Crashplan is my third option.</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Are you on a four year old mac book pro or something?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>1 year old, top of the line Retina 15" MacBook Pro. Not that this has anything to do with anything but you asked. </p>

<blockquote>

<p>How did you come to that conclusion?<br /></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Must have been that other Eric who wrote: </p>

<blockquote>

<p>We can ask anyone that has had a hurricane or flood go through their town/state how they feel about only using hard drives. <strong>Or, like myself, that has had a virus infect everything</strong>....there's nothing worse than repeatedly building a new computer up, only to find<strong> your back up drives are also infected.</strong>...and your thumb drives...and your CF cards.<br /></p>

</blockquote>

[EricM]

<p>Still, nothing that indicates that I lost data. Odd how you omit my words were I rave about dvd's saving my hide and not losing data. You're not even good at lying, Andrew. Here, just so we're clear, I said; <em>DVD's and CD's dating back to 1997 saved my bum as well as the current gig I was working on. I was able to safely work on another terminal and my client didn't notice a thing.</em></p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>1 year old, top of the line Retina 15" MacBook Pro. Not that this has anything to do with anything but you asked.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>No wonder you can't run Crashplan in the background. A laptop? You're kidding?</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Still, nothing that indicates that I lost data.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>OK, you didn't lose data, you got a virus and infected everything boy genius. Good job.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>No wonder you can't run Crashplan in the background.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Never said that. You're not even good at lying. Runs in the bkgnd just fine.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A laptop? You're kidding?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes Eric, I'm kidding. But I'm not kidding about the fact that in 25 years of doing this, <strong>never</strong> a lost file, <strong>never</strong> a virus. Unlike you.</p>

[EricM]

<p>My mom can beat up your dad.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Yes Eric, I'm kidding. But I'm not kidding about the fact that in 25 years of doing this, <strong>never</strong> a lost file, <strong>never</strong> a virus. Unlike you.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You don't do anything difficult, Andrew. I'm not sure why you are so proud that you are...normal? It's wonderful you have your family photos all these years and the various snaps you've used to learn Lightroom. Yeah, I caught a cold, I'm the only one in the world it's happened to, and it's all my fault. Unlike you, I played it smart with having more than one medium type and was able to recover from it.</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>My mom can beat up your dad.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Considering he's been dead since 1998, you might be right <strong>this time</strong> Eric.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>You don't do anything difficult, Andrew.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You've suggested this in the past and I've pointed out, you don't have a clue as to what I do. But go ahead and continue to look foolish with such posts.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Unlike you, I played it smart with having more than one medium type and was able to recover from it.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's right Eric, I've never needed to recover in the first place and that's my point. For a guy with such a huge opinion of himself and who likes to belittle others without a clue about them, your track record is questionable.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Maybe the milk crates with my cd's and dvd's will end up in an auction when I'm 80 and some whipper snapper will purchase and discover the next...</p>

</blockquote>

<p><em>Troll</em> is the word you're searching for Eric. </p>

[EricM]

<blockquote>

<p>That's right Eric, I've never needed to recover in the first place and that's my point.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You have to actually step out into the field and get a bit muddy once in awhile, Andrew. It's pretty easy to sit on the sidelines in an armchair, with a laptop, and talk a big game amongst those that are actually using their cameras and creating terabytes of data every year.</p>

<p>What did you do when photography was film based? Work behind a counter at a lab and talk chemistry and sprocket holes?</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>You have to actually step out into the field and get a bit muddy once in awhile, Andrew.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In your consistently poor logic, that means making the same kinds of mistakes as you Eric? Getting a virus and infecting everything? I think I'll pass on that suggestion.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>It's pretty easy to sit on the sidelines in an armchair, with a laptop, and talk a big game amongst those that are actually using their cameras and creating terabytes of data every year.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I suppose it is, I don't know. Unlike you, I make a good living working with <em>other</em> photographers implementing sound digital imaging workflows along with my own. That's been since 1994.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>What did you do when photography was film based? Work behind a counter at a lab and talk chemistry and sprocket holes?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Since you asked, and since you've gone on record making up silly assumptions of what I do or did, I'm happy to answer you (not that it will help in stopping you from continuing to make <strong>ridiculous assumptions</strong> and dragging the tread into a territory it doesn't need to go, hence your troll behavior). In the film days as you say, in the 1980's (when you were a child) and 1990's, I made a very good living in the competitive Los Angeles market shooting for clients like Disney, Apple, GTE, Microsoft, Forbes, to name a few. I was selling stock to Tony Stone when you were thinking about getting your first camera. I was on the board of the APA (you have any idea what that is Eric?). I was actually <strong>working</strong> for art directors and agencies making not taking (street) photo's to feed my family. I was one of only 50 photographers in the world to have full access to shoot the 1984 Olympics. My one and last stint as a sports photographer. <br /> <br /> Now you know. Not that it will keep you from continuing to make assumptions about what I did and now do, dragging posts into areas they need not go and making yourself look foolish with posts towards those who don't agree with you.</p>

[digitaldog]

 

 

<blockquote>

<p>"So screw it, get on with building a nas and just do it, you already have the hard drives" I said to myself after this thread yesterday. I visited ebay and have now won an auction for a Synology Diskstation 5 bay NAS. </p>

</blockquote>

Ops: http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00ckT5

 

 

[EricM]

<p>How about intentionally linking the PN community to another malicious website that has malware like you did the other day in this thread?<br /> http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00cjyZ</p>

<p>You go blue in the face arguing no one needs dvd back up and that multiple hdd copies is good enough, and then point out now that a hdd nas backup regime is at risk and susceptible to malware? The number one nas system on the market falls to malware and Andrew is all for hard drive back-up....very strange logic. Following your advice would doom many. Or maybe you're being a gentleman and pointing out the nas system I just bought needs a firmware update before I get started. Thanks buddy. Fortunately though, even my cd's from 1997 still open. Pretty cool.<br /> </p>

<p>But I only have to resort to dvd if both the two mirrored copies of hdd's are somehow useless. Here's one copy, the other is off-site like a good boy</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>How about intentionally linking the PN community to another malicious website that has malware like you did the other day in this thread?<br /><a href="/digital-darkroom-forum/00cjyZ" rel="nofollow">http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00cjyZ</a></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Nothing wrong with that site on this end. Anyone else?</p>

<blockquote>

<p>You go blue in the face arguing no one needs dvd back up and that multiple hdd copies is good enough, and then point out now that a hdd nas backup regime is at risk and susceptible to malware?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Eric~ you simply can't understand cause and effect! Q.G and others <strong>tried</strong> to explain it, you simply didn't get it. You could have easily backed up a non virus set of data on <strong>any</strong> media. You could have backed up the virus to DVD or HD. It's timing. Your timing was really bad, you got a virus then stupidly backed it up everywhere but DVD. You could have backed the virus up to DVD first <strong>then</strong> all subsequent HD's but one. That would shoot holes into your so called premise but again, you simply don’t get it, nor understand cause and effect.</p>

<p>There's no point arguing, discussing, rationalizing, debating this with Eric~ he's a flat earth proponent in that respect. No matter how much carbon dating you supply, he's sure the earth is 6000 years old. Heck, he can't even navigate to a web page that would aid his understanding of how to fix the virus he self inflicted on himself, he claims it's got a virus or something. He's dismissive of anyone who doesn't tell him he's absolutely correct (he rarely is as illustrated in both posts on backing up data), troll-like in behavior, insulting and best of all, just flat out hilarious to read.</p>

<p>Dealing with posts from Eric~ is a bit like driving past a car crash. You find yourself slowing down to see the carnage. Eric~ is that car wreck and these posts go on and on because the more he writes, the more foolish he appears so for entertainment value alone, you just have to keep posting to see what rubbish he comes up with next. I want to move on but like that car wreck, what new carnage will he inflict on himself next?</p>

<p>He loves to speak for everyone too. But ask him a question to support his assertions, it never arrives. And yet, he thinks he's some workflow and digital expert, with no chops. Check his bio. It all boils down to a guy who really has no self esteem. That's why he has to make so many assumptions insulting others as he's done in this thread. He's really looking inward. I almost feel sorry for him, <em>almost</em>.<br /> <br /> OK Eric~ what amusing text do you have for us before you again get a thread locked down?</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>Or maybe you're being a gentleman and pointing out the nas system I just bought needs a firmware update before I get started. Thanks buddy.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>You are welcome (I figured with your track record, you need all the help you can get).</p>

[EricM]

<p>Not only do you have to get the last word in, but you have to do it twice. And 35 mins is a new record. You normally wait two days to come back and make another entry after your previous one.</p>

[jamie_ridyard]

<p>Andrew, Eric, these discussions are very informative for us readers, but become uncomfortable when the arguments turn 'ad hominem'. Let's try to stick to the subject matter and win only by good argument, preferably citing supporting empirical evidence. I know this will sound patronising, and I apologise for that. It's easy for someone on the sidelines to say 'calm down, guys.'<br>

My 2c worth is that we should not focus on the medium, but the properties of the medium. HDD is fast, cheap, convenient and heavy. BDR is slow, cheap, light and waterproof. Also HDD is 'write many' and BDR is 'write once'.<br>

My main concern is 'propagating corruption' as defined by the American Society of Media:<br>

Photographers http://www.dpbestflow.org/backup/backup-overview<br>

because this has happened to me many times, not due to viruses, I should add. Write once media are one of the most practical ways to avoid this. Those who use HDDs as the sole technology for backup are highly likely to be at risk of propagated corruption.<br>

And for those who still have concerns, read the whole article, because it is encyclopaedic, and covers all reasonable concerns, points out the risks of optical as well as HDD backups, and reminds us all that for most people, it's a question of cost v risk, not a question of whether HDD+HDD is better than HDD+Optical - they are both dangerous compared to more expensive methods. <br>

In case it helps, here's what I do, which is HDD+HDD+Cloud+Offsite_VPN+BDR, and I find cost effective:<br>

1 - Main machine has working storage on internal HDD.<br>

2 - Overnight mirroring software mirrors the working storage to an internal HDD on another computer (the 'server') in the office. Many workstations could all do this to one central server, see 3 below.<br>

This means at most one day can be lost. Also gives a simple recovery mechanism for up to 24h if you mess something up. <br>

3 - The 'server' runs cloud backup software such as carbonite, crashplan, etc and continuously backs up the entire set.<br>

This gets data offsite at least every 24 hours, and lets you back up a set of computers for one subscription.<br>

4 - The 'server' also backs up to another computer offsite over Hamachi (cheap VPN), whether a friend's, in another office of the company, or a family computer. Simple 'I backup yours, you backup mine' strategies are popular. <br>

This protects against the cloud storage provider being unreliable just when you need to recover an entire backup. Just google horror stories from any cloud provider you care to mention. <br>

4 - On a regular basis, typically monthly to be honest for me, I back up anything not already on BDR to a series of 50Gb BDR discs for write once backup, to avoid creeping corruption. I do this on 2x discs, one for on-site and one for off-site. Anyone who claims this is quick is cleverer than me - it is a pain and takes me a few minutes setting up each disc. But I think it's worth it. <br>

BDR is cheap to mail, or reliable once thrown into a shoulder bag, unlike HDD with moving platters. Also waterproof.<br>

I store one set of BDR in a fire safe on site, and in a fire safe off site. <br>

When a new optical format becomes available with much higher density I copy all the old onto the new format. I copied 700Mb CDRs to 4Gb DVDs, did not copy 4gb to 9gb DVDs, did not copy to 25GB BDR, did copy to 50GB BDR, and will wait probably for 200Gb BDR to become effective before doing another copy. This was not as time consuming as I worried, and was only every few years, and also flushed out any bad discs. <br>

I've been doing this for years. Still lose the occasional file. Nothing is perfect ;)<br>

J</p>

 

[EricM]

<blockquote>

<p>Andrew, Eric, these discussions are very informative for us readers, but become uncomfortable when the arguments turn 'ad hominem'.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Please complain! Numerous complaints have been made to the mods and admins over Andrew Rodney's behavior but nothing changes. I was sick of it as well last Spring as I truly cared for this community. I suggested this forum years ago in a Leica forum thread as digital was beginning to flourish and the analog film people didn't care for the conversations that were beginning to happen. Tony and Josh, who moderated the Leica Forum, flew the idea past Brian M and voila, we had a digital darkroom. I'm kind of attached to it...</p>

<p>Great post and agree 100% with your workflow. Here's another thread on dvd back up that might be of interest? Sadly though, Andrew starts into me again on it as well and resulted in another thread being closed.</p>

<p>http://www.photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/00cjyZ</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p><strong>I suggested this forum years ago</strong> in a Leica forum thread as digital was beginning to flourish and the analog film people didn't care for the conversations that were beginning to happen.Tony and Josh, who moderated the Leica Forum, flew the idea past Brian M and voila, we had a digital darkroom. I'm kind of attached to it...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That's interesting. Your bio here says you became a member on October 04, 2003.<br /> I've been member since June 25, 2001 and my first post was, you guessed it, the forum you say you suggested (digital imaging which became this forum). Back on Jun 25, 2001; 03:26 p.m:<br /> http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?topic_id=23&msg_id=001To8<br>

Sorry to go OT, but facts are often copiously missing from some people's posts.</p>

[EricM]

<p>I've been on PN since 1997</p>

[digitaldog]

<blockquote>

<p>I've been on PN since 1997</p>

</blockquote>

<p>OK Eric, my bad and that of <strong>this</strong> site which shows on your bio page:<br>

<em>A member of the photo.net community since October 04, 2003.</em><br>

And your first post to a forum on that date. <br>

But the facts are, 831 days <strong>before</strong> that date, there was a digital imaging forum when I made my first post. So if your point above was to complain about just me, because you had some input in the creation of such a forum, it seems rather disingenuous. I am pleased you and Mr. Gore invented the internet though ;-)</p>