Nikon Introduces D810, $3299.95

[ShunCheung]

<p>For anyone who follows this forum at least casually, it is very much expected that Nikon would provide a mid-cycle update to the D800/D800E dual as PhotoKina is only a bit more than two months away. Similar to other DSLRs introduced in the last year or two, the low-pass filter is gone such that the D810 is closer to a successor of the D800E.</p>

<p>As another sign that the mega-pixel race is over, the D810 stays at 36MP although the sensor is updated. The processor is updated from EXPEED 3 to 4 with about a 30% improvement in processing power. The ISO range is expanded on both ends, now covering ISO 64 to 12800, with extended Lo 1 (ISO 32) and Hi 2 (51200) as well as improved dynamic range.</p>

<p>The D810 has picked up two new features from the D4S:</p>

<ol>

<li>Group-area AF, which I find quite useful on the D4S</li>

<li>RAW-S, which halves the pixel count in each dimension on the D4S but the image file size is not significantly smaller, so I find it not particularly useful on the D4S.</li>

</ol>

<p><br />On the D810, the frame rate is faster: 5 fps in the full FX mode (up from 4 fps on the D800) and 6 fps in the DX crop mode. Furthermore, if you use the MB-D12 grip (same grip as the D800) and appropriate batteries, the D810 can do 7 fps in the DX crop mode: 8AA batteries or the EN-EL18(a) for the D4/D4S.</p>

<p>Otherwise, there are a bunch of minor improvements such as stage-light (spot light) metering, improved video capabilities ....</p>

<p>Nikon USA expects the D810 to be available around July 17 at $3299.95, which is the same initial price for the D800E.</p>

<p>P.S. Other than the Df, the D7100 is the only remaining current-generation Nikon DSLR that has yet to be updated to EXPEED 4. You can draw your own conclusions. :-)</p><div></div>

[ShunCheung]

<p>News article on Nikon Japan's web site: http://www.nikon.com/news/2014/0626_dslr_01.htm</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>From the news article, in the "D810 Aditional Features"</p>

<ul>

<li><em>Optimal layout of operational controls, and a grip sized and shaped for a firm, steady hold even when large lenses are used</em></li>

</ul>

<p>Does it mean that the ergonomics has been changed/improved? I don`t see differences in the control layout. Maybe the grip is larger; I`d love it.<br /> It must be a good one, the "kit lens" is now a 24-70... ;D</p>

[donbright]

<p>The grip is deeper.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<blockquote>

<p>P.S. Other than the Df, the D7100 is the only remaining current-generation Nikon DSLR that has yet to be updated to EXPEED 4. You can draw your own conclusions. :-)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>They've not made any decent glass for a high end DX camera that they are now <em><strong>not</strong> </em>going to make....makes sense.</p>

<p>They never replaced the D300 and are now years overdue with the replacement to the D7100. </p>

<p>Typical Nikon, get you to buy into Nikon DX with a common lens mount but new small-coverage lenses.... get you to want to get better and want a better camera and then, when you're ready for pro features, ah, you gotta go FX..... Oh, and buy a whole <strong>new</strong> glass armoury. Nice!</p>

<p>........or <strong><em>maybe</em></strong> the un-announced D7200 is the best DX camera anyone could ever hope for and no-one will need to go FX....and it will come with a whole raft of new fast, innovative DX lenses....!</p>

[jose_angel]

<p>There is an interesting <strong><a href="http://cdn-4.nikon-cdn.com/en_INC/o/57qXCcC4VtbrorNNsWOsXvKoNmM/PDF/D810-D800-D800E_Comparison_Sheet_en.pdf">D810-D800/D800E comparison chart</a> </strong>(.pdf format).<strong><br /></strong></p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>First email about the new camera and the price is, as usually, not quite a £=$ one!<br /> <br /> WEX is offering pre-orders at £2700 or $4320, rather than the announced $3300 or £2062..<br /> <br /> ..........but that's still about 1/3 more! Grrrrrrr...! What is it with Nikon's World pricing?</p>

<p>I could buy some nice glass for the £650 difference!</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<blockquote>For anyone who follows this forum at least casually, it is very much expected that Nikon would provide a mid-cycle update to the D800/D800E dual as PhotoKina is only a bit more than two months away.</blockquote>

 

<p>And some of us might have expected a D300s replacement sometime in the several years preceding the D7100... but yes, it's no shock.<br />

<br />

For me, I'm vaguely interested in the frame rate (though it's not a huge difference without the grip and DX crop), I'll be interested in what ISO 64 brings (I wonder if they have a 16-bit DAC and new raw format - the D800 is already pretty epic at base ISO), I'll be interested in whether the high ISO helps (it's a little questionable on the D4 vs D4s, especially since the useful ISO1600 setting seems to be worse there, but the D800 does have thermal noise issues), and group AF that works more reliably would be nice (may be user error on my D800) - but I'm not sure I'm in a huge rush to spend the difference.<br />

<br />

On the down side, they've moved the meter selector to the top left cluster, and added a <a href="http://cheezburger.com/8118276608">bucket</a> button to the left of the prism. Where I won't be able to reach it. On Monday, I'm taking my D800 in to Nikon UK for a sensor clean, and I swear I'm going to stick my 200 f/2 on it and challenge them to change the AF mode or (pre-BIOS update) ISO while holding it (and hopefully explain to Nikon HQ why there's a genuine problem with their design philosophy, especially on a camera they're promoting as "better with big lenses"). An extension on my nose might help. Maybe it's something that can be mapped to the right-hand programmable buttons, though. Oh, and if "small raw" is still uncompressed, I'm not as pleased as I would have been.<br />

<br />

But the big thing is:</p>

 

<blockquote>A "Split-screen display zoom" function that displays enlarged views of two separate areas of the frame side-by-side for checking level if the building is aligned with the horizon with live view photography</blockquote>

 

<p>So close! I've been <a href="http://www.photo.net/beginner-photography-questions-forum/00ZIBy">asking</a> for <a href="http://www.photo.net/casual-conversations-forum/00ZJmx">this</a> <a href="http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00ZygU?unified_p=1">for</a> <a href="http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00Y1fK">years</a> - I sent it to Nikon as a feature request when I got my D700, and I've reported it since. Thing is, I requested <i>four</i> areas, which would give you an overall framing combined with three areas to define a focal plane when doing tilt/shift photography. It would also let you check near and far depth of field with a conventional lens, combined with an exact focus plane and an overall view. I'm guessing the hardware couldn't do more than two areas. I need to think about how useful this is - at least it would let you do two points on the focal plane with tilt/shift if you got the alignment right. This is the thing that might make me consider an upgrade (though not as much as if they'd done quadrants!).<br />

<br />

But I'm certainly going to wait for the sensor reviews. Got to say that £2062 would have been more appealing (with a D800e trade-in) than £2700.<br />

<br />

Btw, OLEDs in the finder? I wonder what that's about.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>They've raised the Interval/Time Lapse shooting max to 9999 images from 999.</p>

<p>Highlight-Weighted Metering sounds interesting too.</p>

<p>Auto ISO in M Video, makes sense.</p>

<p><em>Full aperture metering during Live View for stills</em>....not quite sure what that means??</p>

<p><em>Live View - Image Area Can be selected while in Live View for stills</em>.....not quite sure what that means either!!</p>

<p><em>Power Aperture Control using Internal Memory Cards</em>....no idea what that means!!</p>

[Richard Williams]

<p>Shame they couldn't make it 6fps in FX with the grip, as the rumourverse had predicted (most of the other important rumoured specs were correct). At least we now have parity with the D700 when running without a grip at 5fps, but still well below the 8fps FX the D700 manages with a grip. Predictable UK price hike, of course, relative to the sub-£2k D800 or the £2350 D800E. But we can hopefully expect significant price drops by next year - the D800E launched at £2900, but was down to current levels within 6 months or so.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<blockquote>Highlight-Weighted Metering sounds interesting too.</blockquote>

 

<p>Ooh, I missed that, and it was also on my historical "dear Nikon" list. Unexpectedly, I'm beginning to feel interested. Which is a shame, because I really can't afford it...</p>

 

<blockquote>Auto ISO in M Video, makes sense.</blockquote>

 

<p>Yes, that seems to have turned up in the D4s, although it took us a while to work out what it meant there...</p>

 

<blockquote>Full aperture metering during Live View for stills....not quite sure what that means??</blockquote>

 

<p>I'm confused as well. Maybe they just mean the behaviour that the D800 had after a BIOS update, rather than at launch?</p>

 

<blockquote>Live View - Image Area Can be selected while in Live View for stills.....not quite sure what that means either!!</blockquote>

 

<p>Dynamic crop to arbitrary resolution? Not sure. Although if they've fixed the live view line skipping behaviour from the D800, that would be news. Still hunting for people who've played with one to see if there's any feedback on this - Nikon are unlikely to admit to the problem on the D800. So would "not hanging until the image is written to a card when using live view"... Speaking of features Nikon don't want to talk about, I hope there's trap focus. I'll be interested to see the manual, when it appears.</p>

 

<blockquote>Power Aperture Control using Internal Memory Cards....no idea what that means!!</blockquote>

 

<p>Wow. Me neither. Oh, wait, dpreview claim that you could previously only use power aperture on the D800 when outputting video to HDMI, not to internal cards. I'd never noticed that (my interest in power aperture was really about live view), which shows how much video I shoot. But given that it was missing, it's nice to have it back. :-) And a "flat" video mode isn't unappealing, either.<br />

<br />

Hmm. Add the quiet(er) shutter and vibration avoidance, and I'm actually a lot more tempted than I was expecting to be. It's really the split live view that has me - since I have a couple of tilt/shift lenses that I under-use - and I'm not expecting that to appeal so much to others. I guess I have to hope it tests badly, otherwise I need to save up. The increased speed means that I might actually consider letting go of my D700, which I'm not using nearly as much as I'd expected to when I got the D800.</p>

[peter_petrov1]

<blockquote>

<p>They never replaced the D300 and are now years overdue with the replacement to the D7100.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There are 1 year and 4 months between now and the release of D7100 in February 2013. </p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Maybe the Americans haven't woken up yet, but this thread is quieter than I expected. :-)<br />

<br />

I'm a little curious that I've not seen a sample image of a D810 that has an LCD protector, yet. I <i>think</i> it looks like there are attachment points (unless there's an eye sensor under the finder), but I'm going to have to be more careful with my storage if they've got rid of it. Not that it was a great bit of optical engineering, but it's been nice to know that I wasn't going to scratch the LCD if I shove the camera in the bag and a cable happens to fall behind it.</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>Andrew, I've not had a Nikon screen protector on my D700 for years. I just put a new stick-on & peel-off thingy every 6 months.</p>

<p>Just seen... <em>Spot White Balance when using Live View </em> ......simply pop the cursor over the grey card and lock the WB?<br>

<em> </em></p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Hmm. I'd certainly get a stick-on if there's no cover, but I feel slightly safer about small sharp bits of metal in my bag if there's something rigid between the glass and the outside world. Spot white balance looks vaguely interesting, but to be honest I almost always shoot raw, and I'm assuming that most cameras since the D2x don't adjust the DAC settings according to white balance, so I leave it on AWB in the hope that this is close enough to advise the meter.<br />

<br />

Next up, I wonder if the base plate is sufficiently similar to the D800 that my RRS L-plate will fit? Otherwise, I've been looking at the Arca universal plate, but I'm only interested if the anti-rotation pins actually fit the D800/D810 properly.</p>

[robert_bouknight1]

<p>For me, the next significant IQ improvement likely would be results delivered from significantly better AF system. I am sure that the AF will be a little better in the 810, but it looks like basically the same system. It always seems like my best portrait image from a shoot is just slightly out of focus. Of course, I am chasing a narrow DOF</p>

[Landrum Kelly]

<p>Well, it's been two years, and so I suppose there was the need to do something to help sales. I'm sure the incremental improvements are real, but I rather doubt that image quality (at low light or otherwise) is going to be much improved. Wait for samples, I guess. Then again, I never had any complaints about image quality in the D800E in the first place, although improvements in low-light performance are always welcome (though hardly necessary at this point, in my opinion).</p>

<p>The real significance to me is that, by collapsing two models into one, they have removed the option to buy one below $3,000, at least at list. When I saw the announcement in B&H's e-mail this morning, it was hard to stifle a big yawn. I really like the D800E, and improvements are always welcome, but there just isn't anything here that cries out to me personally, "Upgade! Upgrade!" For those just starting out with the D8xxx series, though, this certainly cannot be bad news--unless they were hoping that the price would come in under $3,000. One wonders if the street price will remain where it is.</p>

<p>Increase in frame rate is encouraging, though not a significant development for my type of photography. Better battery life and faster processing are always welcome.</p>

<p>Overall, though, it confirms what I have felt all along: the D800E was just about everything I could want in a high-resolution body.</p>

<p>I do wonder, though, if the next iteration might yet bump the megapixels up a bit more--perhaps to something like the pixel density of the D7100 but on full-frame. (Somebody do the math.) The marginal utility of doing so is questionable, but one does wonder what Nikon is going to do for an encore.</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Lannie - that was my expectation, but the more I look at the details, the more I'm a little tempted - they've picked several things off my personal request list, and a little bit of me wants to reward them financially for listening... I may snap out of it - my D800e is already a heck of a camera. :-)<br />

<br />

I'm not sure about a 54MP body (although supposedly Sony have demonstrated these things) - lenses that can hit that pixel density at the edge of the frame are going to be few and far between. If the centre DX crop was 24MP with a lower-res surround, I wouldn't rule that out as interesting. Or they could think about stealing the multi-shot sub-pixel offset thing that Hasselblad use.<br />

<br >

Re. the L-plate compatibility, I notice that the D810 uses the same battery grip as the D800. I guess that gives it a sporting chance of fitting.<br />

<br />

I was dismissive of the autofocus changes in the D4s compared with the D4 - but reports do seem to be that it helped. Fingers crossed.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p><em>I swear I'm going to stick my 200 f/2 on it and challenge them to change the AF mode or (pre-BIOS update) ISO while holding it (and hopefully explain to Nikon HQ why there's a genuine problem with their design philosophy, especially on a camera they're promoting as "better with big lenses").</em></p>

<p>The ISO control was already addressed (you can use the movie button for this function) for the D800(E). If you need to access AF mode selector while hand-holding a 200/2, kneel down a bit, and lower the lens so that the hood is supported by your thigh(s), then let go of the left hand and adjust the AF area. Put the hand back under the lens, lift it and raise yourself. You're ready to shoot again. This takes a few seconds and it never came across to me as "difficult", but then I rarely adjust these settings. With most larger lenses you use a tripod or monopod to hold the lens and can freely access all the controls of the camera. With shorter / lighter lenses you just take the left hand and adjust the control and are ready to go again. The 200/2 just happens to fall in between those categories in that it's hand-holdable but heavy, but then probably fewer than 0.1% of D800(E)/D810 users are ever likely to use one.</p>

<p>Personally I think it is a good thing that controls are spread around for both hands so that both hands have something to do and the buttons can better utilize the available space on the camera, rather than concentrated on one spot (in my opinion the shutter button area is already crowded). I would feel quite uncomfortable if all the controls had to be adjusted with the right hand. I don't even want to imagine what left-handed people would think of such an arrangement.</p>

<p><em>if "small raw" is still uncompressed, I'm not as pleased as I would have been.</em></p>

<p>Uncompressed NEF files open and are saved faster on some computers (assuming here the file isn't read from or written to a slow network drive) and post-processing time is the issue when using the 36MP camera for events, not so much storage space; cards are cheap, time is precious.</p>

<p><em>Live View - Image Area Can be selected while in Live View for stills.....not quite sure what that means either!!</em></p>

<p>It refers to DX/1.2/FX crop modes.</p>

<p><em>it took us a while to work out what it meant there...</em></p>

<p>The information regarding the movie mode auto ISO in manual mode was given in the D4s announcement on Nikon's web pages and a google search also gave the answer immediately. I don't know why people cannot start by reading the announcement.</p>

<p><em>it's been nice to know that I wasn't going to scratch the LCD if I shove the camera in the bag and a cable happens to fall behind it.</em></p>

<p>I've never managed to leave a permanent mark on any of my digital camera LCDs (after nearly 400k exposures) although I've always taken out and discarded the protector of those cameras that came with one. Camera bags have soft inner dividers to avoid equipment causing damage to each other. I find the LCD protectors reduce the clarity of the image on the screen (even when new and clean, a situation which won't last a day) and may also slightly increase the distance between my eye and the viewfinder.</p>

<p>One feature the impact of which will be interesting to see is the electronic first curtain shutter. At least for continuous light macro work it should have a visible impact, as well as when using long, relatively lightweight lenses on static subjects such as landscape details at slowish speeds. The D4s also has this feature, but that camera is less likely to be used for this kind of applications and it's jpg only.</p>

<p>Since the MB-D12 is shared between D800, D800E, and D810, the base plate should be of the same shape, so most existing D800(E) L brackets should fit, but it's good to check before buying.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>After having read here and there a bit more, I must say I am more interested in this interim release than I expected to be at first sight. The added speed is welcome, the new metering mode sounds genuinely useful if it works well, AF improvements never hurt and the lower base ISO could be of interest. Small things, but they all add up to a better package.<br>

So, my first reaction was "nice, this will make the D800E more affordable, so I can start thinking about that one" but I'll rather wait for the D810. Well...realistically, I still am completely satisfied with my D700 and see too little reasons to get a D8x0. But well, sooner or later that gearlust will come, and then D810 just looks the better camera to me. Let's see how long I can resist...</p>

<p>I don't think this new model is expected to make D800/D800E owners upgrade (though probably Nikon will not mind if you do), it's too marginal for that. But esp. the continuous speed update does silence one of the biggest complaints from D700 owners on how neither D600 nor D800 replaced the D700 in all senses. The D810 now does come quite a lot closer.</p>

[panayotis_papadopoulos]

<p>I don't know if the owners of D800/D800E would upgrade, but finally I think there's a good reason for D700 owners that waited for an upgrade to really make the move if money is not a matter. As far as the successor of the D300/D300s is concerned, my opinion is that it's just around the corner...Cheers!</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<blockquote>The ISO control was already addressed (you can use the movie button for this function) for the D800(E).</blockquote>

 

<p>It was, although after I'd been complaining about it since receiving by D700. I'm very grateful they fixed this. My concern is with the philosophy of the design team.</p>

 

<blockquote>If you need to access AF mode selector while hand-holding a 200/2, kneel down a bit, and lower the lens so that the hood is supported by your thigh(s), then let go of the left hand and adjust the AF area. Put the hand back under the lens, lift it and raise yourself. You're ready to shoot again. This takes a few seconds and it never came across to me as "difficult", but then I rarely adjust these settings.</blockquote>

 

<p>Yes... at that point you're not so much "hand-holding" it. Less "difficult" than "slow". Enough to miss shots, certainly.</p>

 

<blockquote>With most larger lenses you use a tripod or monopod to hold the lens and can freely access all the controls of the camera. With shorter / lighter lenses you just take the left hand and adjust the control and are ready to go again. The 200/2 just happens to fall in between those categories in that it's hand-holdable but heavy, but then probably fewer than 0.1% of D800(E)/D810 users are ever likely to use one.</blockquote>

 

<p>Maybe. But I've had the same difficulty hand-holding a 150-500, and the 70-200 isn't that much better (technically possible, but precarious). I've tried balancing my 200 f/2 on a monopod with my right hand, and that's a bit unwieldy as well. I do accept that there's no problem with a very small lens, or if you're using a tripod. I suspect this is how Nikon are testing. But the same argument applies to using an aperture ring instead of the front dial, and Nikon felt happy enough to make that change.</p>

 

<blockquote>Personally I think it is a good thing that controls are spread around for both hands so that both hands have something to do and the buttons can better utilize the available space on the camera, rather than concentrated on one spot (in my opinion the shutter button area is already crowded). I would feel quite uncomfortable if all the controls had to be adjusted with the right hand. I don't even want to imagine what left-handed people would think of such an arrangement.</blockquote>

 

<p>Sure - I hear that argument, and I'm sympathetic. So I don't suggest removing these controls from the left-hand positions, just ensuring that they can be mapped to the right hand. Having a button rather than a dial (for both AF-S/AF-C and meter mode) actually makes this easier. I'll completely withdraw my concern if it's already an option. And if it's not, I reserve the right to grumble that Nikon have a handling issue here, albeit "only" with any lens longer than 135mm that isn't on a tripod.</p>

 

<blockquote>Uncompressed NEF files open and are saved faster on some computers (assuming here the file isn't read from or written to a slow network drive) and post-processing time is the issue when using the 36MP camera for events, not so much storage space; cards are cheap, time is precious.</blockquote>

 

<p>I was completely unaware of this being significant, especially compared with the file transfer time, backups, etc. I'll take your word for it. Nonetheless, "small raw" that's nearly as big as a compressed raw file with four times the resolution (extrapolating the D4s behaviour) is embarrassing. If we were going to have "small", why not make it as small as possible? Well, because it's a new format, obviously, but I'm much less interested than I would have been if this was a more direct equivalent of "true raw", and compressed.</p>

 

<blockquote>It refers to DX/1.2/FX crop modes.</blockquote>

 

<p>That was the less configurable option. :-) I don't think I'd been aware of these <i>not</i> being "selectable in live view". But yay, if that was a missing feature. :-)</p>

 

<blockquote>The information regarding the movie mode auto ISO in manual mode was given in the D4s announcement on Nikon's web pages and a google search also gave the answer immediately.</blockquote>

 

<p>I eat humble pie (om nom). I saw several reported announcements on the D4s, none of which said anything other than "allowing auto-ISO in manual mode" with no mention of movies. I thought I'd looked at an original Nikon one, but now I Google for it, I admit it's there.</p>

 

<blockquote>I've never managed to leave a permanent mark on any of my digital camera LCDs (after nearly 400k exposures) although I've always taken out and discarded the protector of those cameras that came with one. Camera bags have soft inner dividers to avoid equipment causing damage to each other.</blockquote>

 

<p>I've never caused damage, but I've always kept the plastic cover on, and they seem to get quite scratched. I'm trying to be careful, but with a full bag, small items can get free; wedging things into a bag, it's always possible for a zip to get folded over. I just prefer to have something in the way. Though I've now seen an image on Gizmodo with the cover in place, so I guess there is one.</p>

 

<blockquote>Since the MB-D12 is shared between D800, D800E, and D810, the base plate should be of the same shape, so most existing D800(E) L brackets should fit, but it's good to check before buying.</blockquote>

 

<p>My conclusion as well. But I'll check with RRS in case there's a weird protrusion that's a problem.</p>

 

<blockquote>I don't think this new model is expected to make D800/D800E owners upgrade (though probably Nikon will not mind if you do), it's too marginal for that. But esp. the continuous speed update does silence one of the biggest complaints from D700 owners on how neither D600 nor D800 replaced the D700 in all senses.</blockquote>

 

<p>Well, the D800 could always do 5fps in a 24MP, 1.2x crop, which made it pretty close to a grip-less D700. I'm interested in the 7fps mode more as a way to avoid D7100 envy! But yes, there are lots of minor changes. Enough coincide with my specific complaints about the D700/D800 that I'm probably more tempted than I'd expect others to be. If I take the plunge, I hope that means my D800e might still have resale value...</p>

[Landrum Kelly]

<blockquote>

<p>If I take the plunge, I hope that means my D800e might still have resale value...</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Ah, yes, resale value. I now have to admit that the dollar value of my D800E just dropped overnight. All the more reason to hang onto it, I suppose. . .</p>

<p>--Lannie</p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>P.S. Other than the Df, the D7100 is the only remaining current-generation Nikon DSLR that has yet to be updated to EXPEED 4. You can draw your own conclusions. :-)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Overnight, I recalled that the D610 is also still EXPEED 3. But I considered that to be an "unscheduled" update to the D600.</p>

[kevin_beretta]

<p>Hmm... I was debating between the D800E and the Df. I guess the 810 makes the choice easier. For me, the clustered 5 centre focus is the best addition.</p>