Will I need my 60mm macro in the Grand Canyon?

[tombest]

<p>I am heading to the Grand Canyon soon and am wondering if I will need to bring my 60mm Nikkor along. I will have my D7000, a Tokina 12-24 F4.0, 18-105 Nikon kit lens and 70-200 F2.8 VR1. I plan to also bring my SB600 and SB800. I have an Induro CT218 carbon tripod with an Acratech GV1 head. My variables are the 60mm macro and my TC14E-II teleconverter for my 70-200. It would save a little weight to not have them in the bag. I don't know if the canyon presents macro opportunities or if there is enough wildlife where the 1.4 would be a help in any way. It will be my first trip out there and don't know exactly what to expect outside of the expanse. I think I have enough memory... 6 X 16gb. Any suggestions would be helpful. Thanks,<br>

Tom</p>

 

[SCL]

<p>Everybody's different in what they want to concentrate photographing the the canyon. My experiences are that a macro, or even a long lens never made sense there. I could use my wides to photograph petroglyphs when I needed to. If you're hiking, go light, take lots of water, and wear comfortable well fitting shoes. A polarizer may be helpful depending on the time of day and where you are. Mostly enjoy it, the vistas inside the canyou, and from the rims are awesome.</p>

[joseph_smith3]

<p>The only reason to bring the 60mm macro IMO is to use it as a prime lens for landscapes where you are using it for its focal length and sharpness. My guess is that most of your images will be taken from the rim viewpoints at focal lengths around 16mm to 50mm. If you like to get close ups of certain features like shadows on rock formations at sunrise and sunset, you will be using your 70-200mm too. The tc could come in handy if you come across an animal or bird you want to photograph. I have never hiked in the Grand Canyon. If you are planning on doing this take as little camera stuff as possible with you. The hike is tough and hot. Bring your own water bottles with you as the Grand Canyon is "green." No bottled water is sold. Refill stations are there for you to use to refill your own bottles. <br>

Joe Smith</p>

[tombest]

<p>Thanks for the responses. I appreciate the heads up about the water. My 60mm is my sharpest lens and I feel sort of naked without it but the 70-200 isn't far behind and the only sacrifice is the close focus. We plan to spend a couple of days in Sedona as well and will visit Red Rock Canyon but what works from Grand Canyon Village will work there as well. </p>

[bob_flood1]

<p>I strongly agree with packing light and carrying water. You don't say, but from your post I assume you plan to go down into the canyon and not just shoot from the rim. If you are in reasonable condition with some hiking experience, plan for the climb back to the rim to take about 2 hours for every hour you hiked down. An old cripple like me needs more like 3-3.5 hours to climb out for every hour down. Naturally you'll need water, and you have to take it with you - don't expect it to be available below the rim.</p>

<p>I'm not a flash user, so I may be missing something that's obvious to you, but I don't see a need to take a flash into the canyon, so I sure don't understand why you'd need 2. The tripod is a good idea if you will use it. I always use a tripod, but that a personal thing based on my health; I didn't use one for lots of years, and plenty of folks shoot just fine without one. If you are confident you'll make good use of it (there's no substitute for sunrise/sunset shooting), then take it. If you may or may not use it, then you should think hard about whether to take it.</p>

<p>I expect you'll have good use for all three lenses you plan to take. Wildlife isn't a big feature at the GC; squirrels and ravens may well be all you'll see. You might see vultures cruising over the canyon, and if you are very lucky, maybe a condor. But if you do see a condor, it's unlikely that 200 mm + 1.4x would be enough to get a shot you'd like. You may see elk grazing up on the rim (too hot for them in the canyon) - the lawns around the hotels are a treat that they normally don't find, and you would be most likely to find them in the cool of the morning near sunrise. If you do find them, they will the well acclimated to humans, and a 70-200 would be more than adequate.</p>

<p>You are the best judge of whether 6 16 GB cards are enough for the length of time you'll be there. I'm wholeheartedly paranoid and always have duplicate storage. If I don't take a laptop on a particular trip, I have a Wolverine disk drive that has card slots and internal software that allows the drive to copy a card onto the drive without the need of a computer of any type. If a trip involves wildlife shooting (like Yellowstone), I can fill a 16 GB card each day with my D7000. But on a primarily scenic shooting trip like the Hawaii trip my wife and I will do this summer, I'll need far less storage. The only thing you need to guard against is running out - you may be able to get more cards in the gift shops/RV stores out on the rim, but they'll be fresh out of bargains. You'd find reasonable prices in Flagstaff, but that's hours driving each way from the south rim. If you have any misgivings about whether you have enough cards, a small assortment of the slowest and cheapest that Sandisk offers would be cheap insurance (about $10 each for 16 GB Sandisk on Amazon).</p>

[tombest]

<p>Bob, no hiking experience per se, but mountain bike for exercise and am in decent, if not good shape for my age. I do plan to hike down in to some degree but have heard that getting down and back up in one day is pretty tough. A friend told me that I would not want to miss the additional viewpoints available by a descent of any magnitude.<br>

About the memory... I ordered some Lexar 400X, 32 GB cards from Amazon before I knew of their actual write speed. They write considerably slower than the Sandisk 45mb/s cards I have so I intended to send them back. The investment was pretty small and I suppose it would be considerably cheaper to keep them as backup than hunt for cards locally if I did run out. (It's not like the Canyon moves all that fast.) But I do intend to shoot a fair amount of bracket photos and thought the extra speed might be needed. In Lexar speak it takes 600X to hit 45mb/s of write speed.</p>

[tombest]

<p>OK. So the SB600 is out. The SB800 is the better and easier to use flash and I do want it along to give me an option to get creative when light gets low. That saves a few ounces. The tripod is a non-negotiable for me. My ability to hand-hold isn't' what it used to be so it <em>will</em> get used.<br>

One thing I didn't mention is that I do have and use a an MB-D11 grip. I greatly prefer it when hand-holding shots. It adds a pound to the weight with the extra battery but the feel is better. I would rather it be on than not but don't have to have it. Maybe I trade the weight of the SB600 for it?</p>

[SCL]

<p>If hiking isn't your thing, and you aren't terrified of heights, you could take the mule trip down to Phantom Ranch and back up (I never trusted those buggers, myself - if I'm going to fall a couple thousand feet, I'll do it on my own, not somebody else's wobbly feet). Sedona will be different from the Grand Canyon in many respects. If you have an opportunity, take the "evening" Pink Jeep tour. Also the old gravel road (I can't remember its name just now) heading up behind Sedona toward Flagstaff, will give you a lot of good vistas. And while you're in the area take a side trip up Oak Creek Canyon. My wife & I used to stay at The Enchantment, outside town, which has its own interesting hiking trails, Indian ruins in the cliffs, etc. If all this gets to you, you can always take the drive over to the old mining town of Jerome, which is literally sliding down the mountainside...inch by inch - good photo opportunities at the old mine there. Have fun.</p>

[john_harper9]

<p>When I backpacked into the canyon, I used 20 and 35mm and I don't recall taking a telephoto out of the pack. My telephotos were useful from the rim shooting down to the buttes and tiny figures and mules on the cliff trails. Once you are down on the Tonto Plateau, the experience is more like hiking in a broad valley. My best shots were taken down on the river and during the upper half of the climb out the Hermit Trail.</p>

[tombest]

<p>Frankly, I wish I had a 70-300 to take instead of the 70-200 for the weight savings. And I think I would be best served, weight wise, by taking the camera without the grip. I only have two primes and neither are wide so I suspect the 12-24 and 18-105 will carry most of the load.<br>

Thanks for all the input.</p>

<p>Tom</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>With an upfront note that I never been to any of the Canyons at all, just on a generic level, I think you possibly need to take a step back and ask yourself "am I really going to use it?". I used to carry pretty much everything, to find that even if there was wildlife, switching to my longer lenses was going to take too long since I was set up for landscapes, and so on. Either I go to shoot animals (short distances, heavier lenses) or landscapes (long distance, and a good, allround lens as a 16-85VR on DX). Carrying a bit for everything only makes for a heavy bag with unused gear (in my experience anyway).</p>

<p>The 70-200VR ...versus 105mm you'll carry already - how much value is the added 95mm? Yes, I would also leave the 70-200 at home (lovely lens as it is), as the the difference is still within the range where cropping can work just as well. In exchange, I'd take the much lighter, smaller macro lens for those shots where a faster lens is welcome. Carrying 1,2kg for eventually maybe a wildlife shot - too much hassle.<br>

Same applies for the flashes... why 2 of them? What do you plan to do with the second one? In my view, the one you'll bring will already see relatively little use, so the second is just excess weight. And personally, I'd bring neither. For emergencies, the pop-up flash can do the trick.</p>

<p>So, honestly, my bag choosing from your gear would be the 12-24, 18-105, 60 Macro and the D7000 without batterygrip. And that's still heavy enough with a tripod added.</p>

[Robin Smith]

<p>I'd leave the macro, the grip, and the flashes. You are basically covered with the 70-200mm focal length wise. Can't see that you will need any flashes for the canyon or anything else really. What were you thinking of using them for? I doubt you'll use the 1.4 x much either, but it's not much extra to carry.</p>

[tombest]

<p> I have seen some dramatic lighting shots that were taken in the canyon at dusk using a flash... that's what I was thinking and since I really don't know what to expect, I thought I would take enough to cover any situation. I also expected some serious shadowing at times where the flash would provide fill... not across the canyon, of course but with rock features I may come across. I realize now I don't need both of them but we will be there for a week and our plans include Sedona. Again, an unknown. I don't have to haul everything I bring with me on my first hike so I suppose I could bring the minimum initially and leave the rest in the hotel room. <br>

I do appreciate the advice and suggestions. Everyone's. Thanks</p>

[SCL]

<p>Tom - Prepare to be overwhelmed</p>

[charles_wood]

<p>Be sure to bring polarizers for all of the lens you're likely to use. Haze and particulate atmospheric pollution is a fact of life now here in the southwest, thanks to automobiles, coal fired power plants and proximity to Las Vegas, S. CA., as well as from dust blown into the air by desert winds. Any time we have a weather situation with a stagnant high pressure area, the haze builds quickly and if that happens, you'll be lucky to see across from the south rim to the north rim.</p>

[Rick Waller]

<p>At the risk of stating the obvious, the 60mm macro would be quite useful shooting flora on the way up and down. That said, I do not carry a dedicated macro when trying to minimize the weight of my pack. Instead, I use my old trusty Canon 500 diopter which conveniently is the same 77 thread size as the 70-200. The diopter on the 70-200 can do wonderful things for macro with very little weight and bulk; a fraction the size and weight of the 60. If you do not expect to shoot macro, what is the point of dragging along that lens? You have other choices that will cover you at 60mm. I understand how sharp and how fast the 60 is, but if you can't manage the weight, decide where to compromise. If I were not expecting to shoot flowers along the way, a macro lens would never make it into my packl.</p>

<p>I personally would never travel without the 70-200. Yes it is big and heavy, but for my purposes, I find that the 200mm reach is often very desirable in landscape shots - I use mine often to isolate specific features in a landscape. I recently picked up a 24-120 (the new one) to take the place of the 28-70 and 70-200 combo since as I get older, it becomes more and more difficult to hump the two 2.8 lenses. I do miss the extra 80mm on the long end, but everything is a compromise.<br>

One other suggestion. While I appreciate your desire to bring the tripod, you might want to consider a monopod instead. Will help with your support problem and makes a great walking stick at a substantial weight savings. Better yet, when climbing down into the canyon, another alternative would be to grab a table top set of legs and a small ballhead (both of which can be carried in your belt) and just prop it against any nearby convenient rock, ledge, tree or the ground. Saves a lot of weight.</p>

<p>Good luck with your quest. Be sure to have extra batts and cards. All the gear on your back becomes paperweights if your batts die or your cards fill.</p>

[tombest]

<p>Thanks for the advice Eric. I bought a spare battery just for this trip. The D7000 battery is no slouch and I have never run mine dry in a day of shooting but I didn't feel comfortable with no insurance in the event of some strange, catastrophic event.<br>

About the macro shooting... I don't know if there are likely to be flora at the canyon where the 60mm would be desirable. That's what prompted the post in the first place. I know it will be spectacular and awe inspiring but I know nothing of what desert flowers may be cropping up along the way. Since most posters think it will have little value there, I have already shed it and one of the flashes from my bag as well as the MB-D11 grip.<br>

As far as memory goes, I have 6 X 16gb Sandisk Extreme SD cards (@ 45mb/s write speed)and can bring along another 2 Lexar 400X 32gb cards. The Lexar's are slower to write but other than bracketed photos, I don't anticipate running seconds of shots off for anything. They would be my backups.<br>

I have never had much luck with monopods for stability. I've owned one for many years but never learned to trust it much and with my hope to take bracketed shots for HDR's, any movement would mess with my chances.</p>

[Rick Waller]

<p>If your goal is to shoot hdr, then a tripod is a must. As far as monopods and stability in general - they are certainly not as good as 3 legged support, but with practice, it is possible to gain proficiency with the stick. </p>

[craig_shearman1]

<p>In the Red Rock area around Sedona there are all sorts of cactus and other plants you can do closeup work on with the 60. I've only done the rim of the Canyon, not hiked it, but I imagine there are plenty of closeup subjects there as well. I bought my Tokina 12-24 for the Canyon but found I used it less than I expected. I got shots I liked much better picking out pieces of the canyon with my longer lenses than trying to do sweeping vistas where you see a of everything but not much detail of anything. Going there I thought the sweeping vistas were what I wanted but less so after I got there. I would look through some Grand Canyon coffee table books for ideas. There are a couple of photo guide books as well, complete with where to go and what to shoot.</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>For any hike below the rim - and Bright Angel Trail is likely the most popular and the "easiest" (I didn't say easy as in fact, it's a butt kicker) - I recommend you seriously limit your camera gear. Three or four lenses, a flash, battery grip and tripod - unless you are in top shape and used to hiking in the desert heat, there is no way you are going to haul this down and back up (in addition to the gallon of water (or two) you are carrying). Indian Garden (the recommended turn around point for a summer hike) is 4.5 miles one way and you dropped 3000 ft to get there. Temperature in the shade is a 100F+ - only, there isn't any shade to be had for all the gold in China. Plateau Point is another 1.5 miles - you can see the river from there. And then it's 6 miles back up...</p>

<p>Hiking down is deceptively easy - the difficulty of getting back up can't be over-emphasized. It does take at least twice as long going up than going down. You will be happy about every ounce of weight you don't have to carry. Camera with 18-105 is all I recommend you take if you plan to go as far as I mentioned above. Even if you "only" go as far as the 1.5 Mile Resthouse I would recommend to not take more than one additional lens.</p>

<p>Especially in summer, you may want to be back at the rim by 10AM. You don't want to be down there between 10AM and 4PM. Carry a flashlight. And if you hike down in the afternoon, bring a jacket.</p>

[bob_flood1]

<p>Tom - before you send back the Lexar cards, I suggest you try them for the HDR bracketing you want to do. Just set up any place and run some bracketed shots and see if the write speed is a problem - I think you'll find it isn't. It's worth a try before making a decision.</p>

<p>Mules - the mules are safer than humans on the trails. First, they have as much aversion to falling off a cliff as any of us, but they have an advantage that's the reason mules are used for this - a mule's eyes are positioned and have sufficient peripheral vision to be able to see all four feet at the same time. That's why they are known for being sure-footed. But that's not the big issue. First, the rides don't stop for photographers. A tour will have scheduled stops at specific places the tour uses for lecture opportunities about the canyon. The rides that go all the way down are overnight deals that include a stay at Phantom Ranch and cost around $500 per person. 3-4 hour rides go for $80-100 per person. But the bad news is, they book up many months in advance and, while they offer a waiting list to make use of cancellations, the odds of getting a ride that way are effectively zilch.</p>

<p>I use the Nikon grip on my D7000, and when shooting scenery, I use mainly a monopod, which with the grip gives me adequate support to get steady shots. But I wouldn't want to try shooting of the same exact framing at differing exposure settings for HDR purposes that way - a tripod will be mandatory for that.</p>

[tombest]

We arrived last night. Thanks for all the helpful tips. I chose to leave the 60mm behind and brought only the 12-24, 18-105 and 70-200. I

took the MB-D11 off as well. I brought the 2extra 32gb cards too. Today will be our first view. Thanks again for all your help and

expertise.

 

Tom

[thomas_dannhauser]

<p>Seen on sign posted at trailhead on Grand Canyon rim:<br>

Descent - optional. Climb back out - mandatory.</p>