20mm f2.8 AIS and SIC

[nikofile]

<p>Most used copies of this lens are pre-SIC. I have never shot either, but I wondered how much this coating helps the images from this lens. A new one is difficult to find, and rip-off artists abound. It isn't cheap even at the Nikon suggested retail. However, the older used models aren't much cheaper it seems. I would not mind having one for my Df. I have the Voightlander 40mm Ultron II that I really like, and they make a 20mm f3.5 Color Skopar. But according to photozone it is awful wide open. The Nikkor is reportedly soft, but that can be useful if vignetting is not over the top. I'm thinking misty mornings here.</p>

<p>Anybody have a handle on this?</p>

[michael_bradtke]

<p>Hmmm I have the Nikon 20mm f/2.8 D and I have the Color Skopar. I find the Voightlander lens to be much better then the Nikon.</p>

[nikofile]

<p>Thanks, Michael. The 40mm Ultron doesn't get high marks at the open settings on photozone either, but I find it to be a marvelous lens. Still, photozone is one of the best sources around. They like the 20mm AF Nikkor, but they have no review for the AIS version.</p>

[jim_momary]

impressions ...

 

http://www.naturfotograf.com/lens_wide.html

 

Jim

[nikofile]

<p>I have ordered it, but it is special order, and cannot be cancelled. However, who would cancel or return it. The new USA price at B&H is less than the going rate on the open gray market. My Nikon Df and the Voightlander 40mm is giving me more excitement and satisfaction from my hobby than anything in memory, all the way back to my first FM2. And I think with my D800E I can capture some things with the 20mm that will really amaze me, if not anyone else.</p>

<p>The mir website mentioned NIC, which I assume is SIC, to be helpful. I doubt it is a great deal better than ordinary Nikon multi coating, but a penny is a penny. I have looked for a used one for three days with a serial number that indicates SIC, and I cannot find one. Nevertheless, the price of $569 at KEH for an EX+ is typical, many are much higher, and used prices can even get a lot higher than the new price. Of course, they catch buyers because new is a special order, and delivery time cannot be projected. I can wait. My 24mm AF-D isn't awful in terms of manual focus, so I have that going for me.</p>

<p>Thanks for the link, Jim. That is a good indicator. I think it will be a terrific lens for me.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>I don't think there was NIC until 1970 or so. I'm not sure when SIC comes in.</p>

<p>I have the old pre-AI 20mm f/4 and have never had the slightest hint of softness.</p>

[donbright]

<p>NIC-Nikon integrated coating was 1970s<br /> SIC-Super integrated coating, was after the 1970s.<br /> Roy,<br /> Photozone wasn't harsh on the Ultron other than they noticed vignetting wide open, and was gone at F4.<br /> I have a Nikkor 20mm 3.5 AIS, and a 24mm F2 AIS, and these lenses have <strong><em>corner</em></strong> softness wide open, and get really sharp at 5.6, and after up to F11 then diffraction sets in like most lenses, but, who shoots wide angle lenses wide open? To insure DOF f5.6 is just the way to go IMO. The best opportunity to use DOF marks on the lens barrel are with wide angle lenses, and I use them to dial things in.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<blockquote>

<p>who shoots wide angle lenses wide open?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I do :-) Not a lot, but it can have its uses for close-up photography.<br>

When I moved to a full frame, my quest for a wide angle passed the lenses you mention. I was almost at the point of buying the Zeiss 21mm (which optically looks to be awesome, but it's large). The main reason why I not chose either AF-D or AiS 20mm f/2.8 is that they're still quite costly 2nd hand - a testament that they are good lenses, but from what I saw from reviews and photos, not mind-blowing. Given the price it commands, and the fact that all my other lenses are 52mm filters instead of 62 - I passed on it.<br>

The Voigtländer is tempting - nice, small, not too expensive. But in the end, I found a AiS 20mm f/3.5 for really little money, it uses 52mm filters just like the rest of my primes and it's smaller and lighter than the Voigtländer. I did not expect great performance, but it's better than expected, and the more I use it, the more I like this lens.<br>

Yes, the corners aren't great at any aperture, but none of these lenses are (except the most more expensive Zeiss). It isn't great at infinity, but really sharp at close distances, also at wider apertures. It's really very flare resistant and its colour rendering is much better than I expected (nice saturation, no washed out colours, but not too saturated, a nice subtle rendering overall - not super contrasty but not veiled either). A nice little gem of a lens.<br>

So, maybe as a backup-consideration if the 20mm f/2.8 isn't to your liking after all. The f/3.5 is about 3 to 4 times cheaper.</p>

[nikofile]

<p>The production run from 1984 to 2005 began with serial no. 200001 and ended with 266369 according to info I found. SIC was added at no. 257xxx, so that was perhaps pretty late. In 2006 the current run began with serial number 300001.</p>

<p>You're right, Don. For most use f5.6 would be the max opening. I did not use ultra wide until a few years ago, so I'm no old hand at it, but I kinda liked sometimes photographing objects very close up at f2.8, particularly if there were a line of those objects so that things eventually went blurry. If the subject is near a corner of the frame a bit of vignette doesn't kill things, but I would rather it be down to a level I might correct to some degree, in those instances where I want to. Not a huge deal.<br>

The other drawback of the Color Scopar, for me, is its size. I love the 40mm Ultron, and there really is no alternative lens, as far as I know. But that thing is tight, and it is not easy to mount/dismount. Hopefully that will improve over time. The Nikkor 20mm is small, but more substantial than the Voightlander.<br>

And then there is the fact that I don't own a genuine Nikon MF lens. I bought an old 200mm f4 for the Df because back-when I liked using that for portraits, and the one I ordered was cheap, although it looks pretty good. Haven't received it yet, so we will see. I also liked the 135mm f2.8.</p>

[nikofile]

<blockquote>

<p>So, maybe as a backup-consideration if the 20mm f/2.8 isn't to your liking after all. The f/3.5 is about 3 to 4 times cheaper.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

I did look at the f3.5, and it has a great reputation. But even nice copies of those aren't cheap. Unless it is a mess, a Nikon 20mm of any vintage starts at a substantial price. So $675 seems to be not such a bad price considering the 5 year warranty. We can't be sure that Nikon still builds them the way they used to, but I suspect they do. They are all basically special order lenses, produced in small numbers. The Df might change that.<br>

The Voightlander, new, is about $100+ cheaper, so it certainly deserved a look. Build quality of my 40mm seems excellent.</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>I'm surprised, Roy, to see prices increased so much (but yeah, a quick check shows $300 to $450 for the AiS f/3.5) - about 1,5 years ago I paid €140 for the AiS 20mm f/3.5 on the large auction site; at that time, the 20mm f/2.8 (AF-D or AiS) hovered between €500 and €650.<br>

I guess I should stop telling it is a great little lens - it drove the price up way too far.</p>

[BelaMolnar]

<p>I own the 20/3.5 AI #193649 the 20/4 AI #124544 and the much bigger Nikkor-UD 20/3.5 Nikon AI-ed, #449516, and used them on the Nikon D700, D3s and D4, and now on the Df. They are beautiful and they are sharp lenses. Specially on the Df they perform excellently. The 20/4 AI I used the most on the Df, it is the smallest 20mm lens, and it is a joy to use it. The rest is your photographic knowledge and technique.</p>

[nikofile]

<blockquote>

<p>I guess I should stop telling it is a great little lens - it drove the price up way too far.</p>

</blockquote>

<p> <br>

lol, Yeah, and that's why I thought it was a good idea to get the new one at B&H on order. This Df might cause a bit of a spike in demand for MF lenses.</p>

[User_6502147]

<p>Hey Roy, the DF had nothing to do with the MF 20/2.8 or its price. I've been eying the 20mm AIS for couple of years and the price seemed to remain steady. I rented the 20mm "D" in Jan (over year ago) just to see how it behaves (on D700) and it likely outperformed my 24/2.8 AIS. Anyway, from what I've read, it likely will even exceed (not by much) the Voightlander F3.5, since Nikon did some correcting steps over the years. IMO, the only competition this lens has is the Zeiss 21/2.8. Sure, the ZF optic is likely better, but judging by the price.....is it really 3X better ? It's up to you to make that determination.</p>

<p>Les</p>

 

[nikofile]

<blockquote>

<p> IMO, the only competition this lens has is the Zeiss 21/2.8. Sure, the ZF optic is likely better, but judging by the price.....is it really 3X better ? It's up to you to make that determination.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Right, Les. Not only is that Zeiss expensive, it's honking big and heavy.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Some of the early history of the ca. 20mm Nikkors is told at<br>

http://imaging.nikon.com/history/nikkor/20/index.htm <br>

Because of a rear (protective?) flange on the 20/4, unfortunately, this one is not adaptable to "FX" Canons, but I still use it frequently on my pre-AI Nikon bodies. It was and is one of my favorite lenses, and so very small...</p>

[nikofile]

<p>Nice link, JDM. Here is a site in Malaysia that has been around since dirt. If it is Nikon it is here.<br>

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/</p>

[borgis_karl_johan1]

<p>I own or have owned the 20mm f4,0 AI, 3,5 AIS and 2,8 MF AIS(two of these) versions of this lens. The 3,5 lens saw use in olden pre-digital times with slide film. I have not done any specific tests for chromatic aberrations etc, just checked the images and also tested -probably all- lenses with fine-grain BW film.<br>

All of these are good in the center. The most recent (1984 vintage...) f2,8 version is probably the sharpest -including the extreme corners- with excellent contrast provided it is stopped well down to around f8 - f11. Not very good wide open and closed down just one or two stops though. Well, f5,6 is pretty good.<br>

The f3,5 is nice but never got critically sharp along the edges and in the corners - at least my sample didn´t.<br>

The f 4,0 is my preferred choice though it is the oldest design from the early/mid-seventies. It is practically as sharp as the f 2,8 lens. All across the frame that is if stopped down to around f5,6.<br>

It gains from its petite size.I wish Nikon would take up the production of lenses as compact as this lens and the former 45mm f2,8 lens for full- frame again. Maybe in a mirrorless future?</p>

[nikofile]

<p>I am a little surprised. I just got notification from B&H that my 20mm f2.8 has shipped. I assume Nikon USA keeps control of inventory on this kind of stuff and moves it from one outlet to another if needed. They only show three places to buy the USA version, but I bet you could order it from just about any local Nikon dealer. Anyway, I was expecting to wait for a couple of months, so this is a nice surprise. Should have it next week.</p>

[nikofile]

<p>I received my 20mm yesterday, and it is a work of art. I have not had a good wide angle opportunity yet, but I hope to find it this weekend. I have snapped the usual shots around the house, and it performs beautifully. It is a fine piece of craftsmanship, and it seems to deliver crisp results with great Nikon color. Focus is a tad tighter than my Voightlander 40mm, and I like that. Not that the Voight is objectionable. I like both.</p>

[donbright]

<p>Hope this would be a good place to ask.<br>

Anybody know a better lens hood other than the Nikon HK-6 that presses on, and falls off while carrying?<br>

It's annoying to have to constantly worry about losing this hood. Any better alternatives?</p>

[nikofile]

<p>Hey, Don. I found some screw-on hoods, the no-name variety. They are the "buy it and try it and toss it" stuff. But I am not going to get one right away. After all I have read about the HB-4, I don't think I will get one of those.</p>

[larry_miller5]

<p>Yep, Roy that Voightlander 40mm Ultron is one heck of a lens. It's so sharp it could cut paper. I really like the 40mm length rather than the 50mm. Much more. These days I carry three lenses only. The late 20mm F2.8 AIS, the 40mm Voigt and the Nikkor 85mm F1.8 AF-D. All, in my opinion are very sharp and contrasty. The publications I shoot for demand shots with quality in them.</p>

[larry_miller5]

<p>I don't even bother with a lens hood for the 20/2.8. So far I haven't needed one. 90%+ of the pics I make are with the sun at my back or to the side.</p>