First apartment shoot with a pro model - looking for advice

starvy · December 30, 2013

Following on from my <a href="/photodb/folder?folder_id=1063495">first studio shoot with a pro model</a> just before Christmas I now have another shoot booked with a different model. This time it would be in a very modern flat. Surfaces and walls in white, grey and black as I have found out. The main room that I would be using has a domension of 19ftx12ft a 7ft ceiling. The model I shall be working with this time is even more experienced and has physically shot in this apartment before. I have seen these images. I can't visit the apartment before to take a physical look though just like the case with my previous studio shoot.

I have been working on a small home studio base setup with two or three flashes over the last two years. The space I used for these test portraits would be even smaller than where I would be shooting in next week although with a higher ceiling.

The shoot would consist of standard portraiture and art nude. In terms of the camera I would have crop sensor Sony A450 yet again. The lenses I shall take with me would be a Minolta AF28mm (what I ended up using a lot during the studio shoot), Minolta manual focus 58mm PF f1.4 and an East German converted Zeiss 135mm f2.8. I used all of these in the studio shoot as well. The flashes I would take would have guides 20, 24 and 32. I have a alternative branded Gary Fong lighsphere sort of device. I also use a shower cap style diffuser. I shall have 2 feet by three feet reflectors with me as well. I will carry one tripod that may actually get used as a flash stand depending on the need. I may also carry the Sigma 24mm Macro lens with me. I will also be shooting film with the Rolleiflex Automat. I will carry perhaps a roll of two or chromogenic black and and white as ISO400 and Portra 160NC. Will decide on the film once I get there.

Once again, the purpose of the shoot is to have fun and perhaps to learn. There are only half the images from my studio shoot put up on the photo.net gallery. My purpleport gallery contains higher resolution images as well as the nudes and I pleasantly surprised myself with the output from the stuido shoot. So if I am able to come back home with a similar feeling, I'd be more than happy.

Suggestions related to technique or general guidance more than welcome that would allow me to have fun during these two hours and come back home with thirty to forty digital images and perhaps two rolls of 120 film to play with. By the way, I am not able to purchase any other gear before the shoot and the idea is use what I have at my disposal and learn from that.

Thanks in advance.

michaelmowery · December 31, 2013

Well besides the fact that the model is boring the lighting is horrible and does not flatter the girl at all. The shirt could have been ironed at the very least. I don't know if you just can't light or you were just trying to be fancy with the lighting. In any case the lighting is lacking a sense of direction and modeling on the face of the model. The light is also underexposed and looks flat with no real separation from the background. I am sorry to give you such a bad critique because you sounded so excited and happy about the shoot. It aint as easy as everyone thinks. Start out with simple lighting and make it look good. One light one great image then add a second light and go from there. good luck

leicaglow · December 31, 2013

Starvy, I know it can be difficult to get going while staying on a budget, but I think

you could do a lot by using some fill. You can affordably do this with simple white

board stock from a dollar store. Some of the shadows were a little too dark, and

there were some hot spots on highlights. What you really need is a Lumisphere disk

to allow for reflective and diffusion light control.

One tip I can give you is figure out what you want to convey with the model, then use more subtle poses, and work with the model to shift parts of the body and not the whole body. Your portfolio looks like she is practically dancing, when I think you would do well to be in command of the shoot, and tune in to what you need from the model, and direct her. Just my 2 centavos.

studio460 · December 31, 2013

1. I would recommend at least one good light modifier, and to begin lighting your subject with just this one source. I know you said you didn't want to make any specific purchases, and that you wanted to work with what you have, but I think what you have is simply inadequate. Umbrellas are dirt-cheap, and can make really beautiful light. Check out B+H's site: a 36" Interfit shoot-through umbrella sells for only $8.59; a 36" Westcott silver/black umbrella is only $13.80; a 60" Impact convertible umbrella can be had for only $29.95; or you can even buy a 7' Westcott shoot-through, or white/black umbrella for only $49.99.

2. Try searching Amazon using the search terms, "portrait photography," and/or "portrait lighting," in "books," and choose the one that looks the most helpful using the "look inside" feature. A well-written lighting reference would be worth volumes more (literally!) than any random snippets of advice given here.

3. Both posing and styling were issues with your last shoot. Without a professional stylist, you're usually at the mercy of whatever the model happened to bring with her. If you're able to bring a fashionista friend along to assist in styling, that could be a huge plus. For help with posing, I just bought Dynamic Posing Guide: Modern Techniques for Digital Photographers by Craig Stidham and Jeanne Harris, and I think it's terrific! I would strongly recommend buying and reading this book (or one similar) before your next model shoot.

starvy · December 31, 2013

Hi Michael Moery, thank you for your comment. I used just one light by the way as you suggested above. Based on the recommendation in my previous post about studio shoot, I used one very large softbox provided by the studio. I have looked at your website and the portraits with much interest. Your work is commercial in nature and it certainly isn't something I would try to emulate in any shape or form. Your body of work fits in with all the established trends that I am seeing elsewhere, and seem to tick the boxes in this respect. Thank you for directing me to the portfolio again. I will pesonally work hard to learn from the bits that I like. I dislike the softening of skintone which is prevalent in your own work as most of commercial photography, so I shall certainly keep away from that as for me it sucks the characater out of a subject making them feel vacous. However, this thread is not about criticism of my previous shoot or evaluating the ideals of portraiture you have set.

I take criticism seriously as constructive criticism allows one to improve. The reason for starting this thread was not to seek critique for my previous studio shoot but to get ideas for an environmental shoot inside a small apartment. Michael Axel seems to have the right idea and makes valuable suggestions, all of which I shall follow up. I will be working with another model for this shoot. The studio shoot was very much with this idea of 'dance' in mind so I am pleased that you got that impression!

michaelmowery · December 31, 2013

Thank you for looking at my website i did not realize i directed you there. I do not shoot gritty portraits that shows all character (flaws) as much as i like them. Most people don't want to see themselves that way and when they are paying the bill I have to please them. That is the last step in the process anyways so you have the choice of photoshoping or not but lets get the lighting down first. Have your model work towards the light with her posing meaning that she should at the very least aim her face towards your light. Google lighting patterns on the face and try to work those into your shots. Fill light does help when the model strays away from the light. Try using a darker background which will help your main light look stronger and will pop more. Your images would have looked better if the background was darker by the way. When selling clothes you don't have to light the models face perfect every time but thats not what you were doing so please pay more attention to the lighting making the model look more flattering. Next model pay attention to her expressions and make sure she has more than one look. Make sure the styling of the cloths looks good. All this helps to the success of the shoot. good luck and i look forward to seeing improved images.

bob_bill · December 31, 2013

Starvy, lots of good advice. I recognize you are moving into a new and foreign area of photography to you. I really agree with Michael's comment this isn't so easy. In studio, the background, clothing, posing, expression, lighting, props and post are all in your control but also your responsibility. It's why I love portraiture especially event work, because all that has to come together in an instant. It's almost a Zen experience. But I think the most important suggestion is start with one light, your main. It will define the mood and character and it's placement will determine if the lighting pattern is flattering to your subject. If she has a narrow face, she can handle clamshell, ie high low on the nose axis. It makes the face appear wider. Otherwise, consider loop which is more applicable to most folks, Rembrandt for more dramatic and split. Each of these subjects is a course in and of itself. Lighting has endless combinations and permutations when you manipulate the 4 characteristics of light: direction, diffusion, intensity and color. And they apply to each light, main, fill, kickers and background. eg, the bg light can be gelled, through a cuc, slashed, a ball, etc. If you want an edgier, more dramatic image consider the main light direction, well off nose axis, diffusion-hard so bare speedlight would work or with snoot (piece heavy paper or black foil wrap) or barn doors, intensity high ratio with dark shadows, color bold. For a gentler image, direction closer to nose axis, heavily diffused soft shadow edge transitions through diffusion or bounced, intensity low ratios and open shadows, color subdued. Just a couple of extremes but you can combine the variants to suit your vision. You want direction to your soft light and you can bounce off the side walls and keep subject close enough to the wall but it just out of camera for max intensity and softness. I cant tell if you have light stands but think about the light coming in from 45 degrees above subject so the 7 foot ceiling could be an issue with a large modifier with subject standing. Heck, my largest octa is 7' in diameter. Consider her sitting or lying. If you have an assistant, bring in the reflectors from the shadow side to fill the shadows you see from the main. Then have fun. This isn't just a few easy things learned in a day, more like years of days with hundreds of concepts. Seems you are enjoying it and perhaps you will find it more to your liking than landscape/cityscape which I am sure you have been doing for years. The journey is really satisfying especially as "lights" go on for you with new techniques. They don't call it trial and success, they call it trial and error. If you aren't making errors, you probably aren't moving outside your comfort zone enough. You are taking a big step turning on the lights. No longer will Starvy's bag have glass over his flash that says: break only in case of emergency. Have fun at the next shoot.

dave_redmann · January 1, 2014

I used one very large softbox provided by the studio.

I tend to suspect that whatever flash you used did not have enough power to light up much when used with this large softbox. Alternately, did you use a flash meter to determine what exposure you could get with this softbox? And/or how far was the softbox from the model, perhaps too far? Because I tend to agree with Michael, that the shots appear under-exposed. Also, the light does not strike me as particularly soft.

studio460 · January 2, 2014

Dave said:

I tend to suspect that whatever flash you used did not have enough power to light up much when used with this large softbox . . .

</blockquote>

This is partly why I suggested an umbrella (in particular, a silver one), so the OP could maximize the output of his Speedlights, yet still obtain a decent light quality. But, with his relatively low-power flashes [" . . . have guides 20, 24 and 32"], and moderate ISOs [" . . . black and white as ISO400 and Portra 160NC"], more light may still be needed. Alternatively, the OP may combine his Speedlights, all bounced into his 2' x 3' reflectors to create a single indirect source (are these white or silver reflectors?).

starvy · January 3, 2014

Dave and Ralph, I was seeking suggestions for the apartment shoot, not an evaluation of my previous studio shoot in which I had used a huge softbox. What you are referring to as underexposure and flat lighting seem to have been liked by many incouding the likes of photographer John Peri. In processing, I deliberately lowered the exposure in the series as I hate the flat portrait lighting.

dave_redmann · January 4, 2014

I was seeking suggestions for the apartment shoot, not an evaluation of my previous studio shoot ....

IMO one of the best ways to get good results in the future is to evaluate what was done in the past for what worked and what didn't. That's what I (probably we) thought was the reason you linked to the pictures from the prior shoot in the original post--especially after you closed with, "Suggestions related to technique or general guidance more than welcome ...." Sorry to have misunderstood the request.

studio460 · January 4, 2014

Starvy said:

Dave and Ralph, I was seeking suggestions for the apartment shoot, not an evaluation of my previous studio shoot in which I had used a huge softbox.

</blockquote>

Other than your previous shoot, I had little information on which to base any suggestions. The recommendations I made were very general, and would apply to any shoot using a model. In fact, the only critique I made of your prior shoot was with the posing and the wardrobe. In my view, these are two of the most difficult, and most important things to get right on-set. I recommended a very good book on posing, which I'm currently reading, and have learned quite a lot. You did ask in this thread, "Suggestions related to technique or general guidance more than welcome . . . " This is what I thought I gave. If you think none of it was of any help, then simply ignore it.

starvy · January 14, 2014

Thanks everyone for their suggestions. This is one of the pictures from that apartment shoot..

starvy · January 14, 2014

For the above shoot I had the guide no 24 flash at its lowest setting around 4 o clock to the right reflecting off a small silver umbrella. I have used a gold reflector at the back where those blinds are and the guide 20 flash at its lowest setting on optical slave.

Minimal retouching on the model's face, perhaps around seven or eight very dark freckles removed. Converted from colour to black and white via channel mixer in CS2. The lens used was the Zeiss 135mm just above f3.5 (when doctoring the lens mount I lost the ball that allowed for aperture clickstops!).

Once again, critiques most welcome and feel free to be harsh.

GerrySiegel · January 14, 2014

I guess this thread also lead me to Michael Mowrey's web site. I like Mike's approach to portraits. Though they are 'varnished' or burnished to make the subject look good, they also look interesting and note worthy such as the lady in gown on the ledge of a roof.- never saw that one before.... And other environmental shots that don't have a studio look about them. Not that studio control is not fine but it needs some je ne sait quoi to look better than Sears. And I love the one or two in Michael's portfolio with strong backlight.

If Michael can make time maybe he will add to his PN bio and tell the dirty secrets of how he got his apprenticeship in portraiture, and what classes if any he would sell off his iPad and MacPro to attend. I need to hone and practice under a tough as nails but not too nasty instructor. Shooting and teaching are hard to do both well, don't you think? Sill have enough life to want to be challenged by someone who has the "touch'. No better I mean who acquired the touch. It is easier when it is a full time job to make bread, but we all have aspirations, even modest ones and learning to light is a toughie even with all the softboxes and rigs....right Starvy? I can't add much except location scouting would not be a bad idea. Get someone out in the air or in a courtyard and sometimes a not too experienced and low paid model /he or she/ sparkles and can be given more life. So I think anyway as a very much learner still, and not slick in my set ups...

dave_redmann · January 14, 2014

Converted from colour to black and white via channel mixer in CS2. ... [C]ritiques most welcome and feel free to be harsh.

Two suggestions, really in large part my personal taste, but:

(1) I often find that B&W conversions made with only the channel mixer don't have enough contrast, and/or a contrast curve, to my liking. I have tweaked it a bit with the curve tool, to show you what I mean / prefer. You may or may not like it, but anyway ...

(2) The background is neither sufficiently blank to be blank / plain, nor sufficiently interesting to be an element of the image in its own right. There are big collapsible portable backgrounds that are not too expensive, and you can sometimes just blow a background out to white with lighting (or let it go dark, although that often requites a larger space). So I'm not sure of the best answer for this particular image, but just suggest maybe it is a point for further consideration.

michaelmowery · January 14, 2014

Not much to add. Just keep shooting and experimenting with the light. Do 50 more shoots then ask again how you are doing. Thank you Dave for the nice words.

starvy · January 15, 2014

Thanks again Michael. Your 'commercial patch' is safe and I won't be tempted near it after 100 shoots. Best wishes.

michaelmowery · January 15, 2014

Starvy don't let anyone tell you you can't shoot someone else's style or type of work. Your best learning advice is to look at other photographers work that interests you and try to determine how it was created and try to create the same style in order to learn for your self. I always look at fashion magazines and youtube clips. You need to really study how the light hits the face and what shadows are caused from what lights. How dark or light are your shadows? what angle are they coming from? How bright are your highlights? What mood are you creating? How is the model responding or helping to reach your goals? Look at the models expressions. are they all the same in every shot? if so say something. One thing that may help to make your images look better is to shoot a younger subject. Young teens are similar to pro models but don't cost you anything and less retouching.

Your next post i suggest three images with three distinct lighting set ups and explain what you did to control the light on each image. You are responsible for everything in the frame and how and where the light is coming from and where it hits the subject.

GerrySiegel · January 16, 2014

Young teens are similar to pro models but don't cost you anything and less retouching.

</blockquote>

Interesting and insightful tidbit, Mike. I have always joked half serious that girls look their best at 18-19 and are at least less self conscious then and more influenced by direction. Pimples aside... See, you do have some advice to impart old sport:-) gs

GerrySiegel · January 16, 2014

You are responsible for everything in the frame and how and where the light is coming from and where it hits the subject.

</blockquote>

I have heard this responsible for everything in the frame quoted from some famous pro and active seminar teacher whose name is on the tip of my tongue. Ellis Vener knows the gent. Jay Maisel if I recall correctly. Everybody needs a mentor at some point, although one can get a great deal from books and tutorials on line. And just experiment and learn through testing. I am now seeking a model dummy head until I find an eager and ingenuous teen ager that will work for gas money and my jokes:-)

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