studio460 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Excellent tips, Pete! Thank you! Newton does make a rotating bracket with a tripod quick-release plate (I have the one without it). I needed a second bracket anyway. Good point about the battery. These are the kinds of brass-tacks tactics which can really speed things up. I've also been thinking a lot lately about the same three areas of focus you mentioned:</p> <p>• Error-prevention (i.e., taping controls, switches, etc.).<br /> • Set-up/break-down (i.e., I try select lightweight grip equipment, and "pre-assemble" my gear for instant set-up).<br /> • Gear transport (i.e., I'm all about sourcing the perfect cart, case, strap, etc.).</p> <p>Thanks again for your thoughts! Very helpful!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <blockquote> <p>However, I've been seriously re-thinking my body/lens strategy as I continue to prepare for my first wedding client.</p> </blockquote> <p> <br> All strategies and previous advice from everyone is subject to change once Ralph actually starts shooting for clients. Much will depend on real world experience and decisions as to style and practicalities as he moves forward.<br> <br> Advice to limit gear is a limited response itself. Again, what the end objective is will become clearer as Ralph develops his own approach. It may be less gear, or it may be more. <br> </p> <blockquote> <p >Let me re-state the question without the lengthy preamble: <em >Does anyone shoot weddings using three bodies (for a single shooter), not including back-up bodies?</em>Although I'm not asking about specific lenses, I am mentioning lenses as an ancillary part of the discussion. I'm not asking anything about workflow.</p> <p >However, <i>[the conversation has brought up]</i> some gaps in my knowledge. I don't know how any of these guys shoot speeches from across the room, or a ring at the ceremony from long distances. I don't imagine anyone's packing a 300mm f/2.8 tele-monster, yet I'm sure you're not always guaranteed a position close enough for a 70-200mm to do the work either.</p> </blockquote> <p>Yes, personally I do often carry three or even four cameras to shoot a wedding … but I do not carry all of them on my body like a 1950's war correspondent : -)<br> <br> I have two 35mm DSLRs as the work horses … plus frequently use a Medium Format Digital camera for outdoor formals with lighting because the camera is able to sync with flash up to 1/1000 shutter speed. The fourth camera is often a rangefinder that shoots only B&W files. <br> <br> So two 35mm DSLR stalwarts do most the work, and a couple of "optional" specialty cameras do the "special" work. It is not difficult to coordinate use of these choices because the time line is a known entity, and you can preplan when and where you'd use each.<br> <br> As far as three 35mm DSLR cameras, each with their own specific lens … no. I bought an interchangeable lens camera so I can change lenses. Get a lens bag … they really help.<br> <br> - Marc</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmowery Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Just want to clarify that when I said I carry two cameras with a 24 1.4 on one and a 24-105 on the other I did not mean that those lenses are married on those cameras for the whole day. This is the default quickest setup for candids in a hotel environment. I have 7 other lenses from 14mm to 200mm. I used to carry a 300 2.8 but it was too heavy and to be honest 300mm is too long for indoor use. I am never on the other side of the room when something is going on that I would need such a reach. Most people do not want to see there face so close up.</p> <p>Marc has pointed out that weddings usually follow a pattern of predictable situations that you can be prepared ahead of time with a camera and lens setup that will best fit the situation. All of this as Marc has mention comes with on the job experience and not from a book or hours of mind pondering scenarios.</p> <p>I am also one who has more equipment than less and Ralph I do own the custom magliner mini by backstage. I had gone through 3 of the rock'n roll carts before I finally broke down and invested in a real cart. 98 percent of my work is Jewish so one location works best for me with all this equipment.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>I already have a Newton flash bracket, which is the smallest/lightest, best-designed rotating flash bracket I've found: http://www.newtoncamerabrackets.com/default-old4.htm</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmowery Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Ralph I second Newtons brackets. Robert who makes them is a great guy. I unfortunately have stopped using the brackets as I don't feel the need to turn the camera vertical while using an on camera flash. Flash brackets don't work well with dual black rapid camera straps</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Marc said:</p> <blockquote> <p><em>Yes, personally I do often carry three or even four cameras to shoot a wedding . . . but I do not carry all of them on my body like a 1950's war correspondent . . .</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Thanks for your comments, Marc! I was thinking more along the lines of Dennis Hopper's character in <em>Apocalypse Now</em> . . .</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Michael said:</p> <blockquote> <p><em>Ralph I second Newtons brackets . . . Flash brackets don't work well with dual black rapid camera straps.</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Yeah, those brackets are great. I use the Nikon factory straps mainly because they're so "un-bulky." I loop both sides of the strap through just the left lug on all my camera bodies. The cameras hang very nicely this way, one slung off of each shoulder.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Michael said:</p> <blockquote> <p><em>I am also one who has more equipment than less and Ralph I do own the custom magliner mini by backstage.</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Thanks for everyone's comments! All of your input had helped me think through my on-site logistics a bit more clearly. I think I'll be investing in either a Jr. or Sr. Magliner with at least two shelves. Heavy stuff, like inverters, monolights, shot bags and stingers will go on the bottom shelf (while also serving as ballast), and I'll probably mount two of my locking aluminum Hakuba lens cases on the top shelf, side-by-side, for easy access. The b*tch is how to carry stands. Maybe I can TIG-weld a couple of "stand hooks" onto the side of the Magliner.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 22, 2014 Author Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Marc said:</p> <blockquote> <p><em>. . . So two 35mm DSLR stalwarts do most the work, and a couple of "optional" specialty cameras do the "special" work. It is not difficult to coordinate use of these choices because the time line is a known entity, and you can preplan when and where you'd use each . . .</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Right. So, I'll just work out of the Magliner, whether it's ten feet away, or staged 100' feet from the venue, guarded by an assistant with a radio. I can simply stash whatever "specialty" bodies I've brought in the top case when not in use.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Just for clarification, a lens bag is … when working mobile there are small narrow, body hugging bags to hold two or three lenses that are designed for quick access to change lenses on the fly . It was suggested an alternative to carrying multiple cameras on you. For those who especially like to work with prime lenses, a lens bag can be very helpful.<br> <br> ~ Marc</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmowery Posted March 22, 2014 Share Posted March 22, 2014 <p>Ralph I looked at the jr and senior carts and they are much larger and the senior being the largest. The mini is more than enough in my opinion though it cost more because it is custom cut down to a size that can fit between the smallest door opening and believe me that helps. It also fits in the back of my land rover perfectly without having to turn it or lay it on its side. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>I said:</p> <blockquote> <p><em>The b*tch is how to carry stands. Maybe I can TIG-weld a couple of "stand hooks" onto the side of the Magliner.</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Although more difficult to find on Filmtools' site than it should be, I found both a C-stand holder, and a light stand holder which fits Jr. and Sr. Magliner carts:<br /> <br /> • C-stand holder (holds two); attaches to 24" shelf: http://www.filmtools.com/gripdept/carts-dollies/unacforallma/cstanholset2.html<br /> • Light stand holder (holds two): http://www.filmtools.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=mag+lightstand+holder<br /> <br /> I can see a four-stand holder in Google images, but can't locate one on the Filmtools' site. The extra "slots" of the four-stand version would be handy to store pole-mounted strobes. Ideally, I'd like to be able to carry two aluminum baby stands with Rocky Mountain legs, two steel C-stands with 40" arms, plus one or two poles.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmowery Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Adorama sell the quad stand holder but you might be better off buying two of the double stand holder because if you start putting roller stands on it they start to get crowed. Also you do not want to weld these accessories as they will get banged off. The best way is to get them screwed flush to the shelf and use loctite to keep the screw from coming loose.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Ah, thanks, Michael! These only go on the sides of the shelves, right? By the way, I don't need to collapse the cart fully--it will stay built, and will live in a Ford Transit Connect.</p> <p>I was also thinking of getting the Magliner vertical cart [ http://www.filmtools.com/fivejusoandv.html ] making it into a sort of "mobile light stand" by attaching a C-stand (without legs) to the handle column, and securing my Dynalite XP-1100 inverter (26 lbs.), spare inverter batteries, and shot bags onto the bottom shelf of the cart.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_s. Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Wouldn't it be better to make something custom built?</p> <p>Think about what you need, make a sketch of it and take it to a metal workshop and have them build one for you. It's a lot cheaper than what most people think.</p> <p>You could make it in raw aluminum and after you used it for a while, perhaps even had it modified further, than you could have it anodized or painted.</p> <p>If weight isn't your primary concern steel also works well. It's faster to build and will be cheaper. Since it doesn't need to be collapsible you can have it welded together.</p> <p> </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmowery Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Pete in this case no. Backstage is the movie industry standard and they already have custom made parts to meet the needs for there equipment carts. I don't know anyone who would fabricate a metal part for $50 anyways.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmowery Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Yes Ralph the accessories attach anywhere on the lip of the shelf. I did the weld approach and the first bump knocked the stand holder loose. Trust me you will only have to screw it once and its done. By the way I choose to attach the stand holder on the short side of the shelf in the front in-between the carts handles. This way you don't make the cart any wider. They can also go on the opposite side as well.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Michael said:</p> <blockquote> <p><em>By the way I choose to attach the stand holder on the short side of the shelf in the front in-between the carts handles.</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Great! I was hoping you could attach the stand holder on the ends of the shelf as well. This way you can also keep the top/bottom shelves free for improved access. So you prefer the stand holders on the rear lip by the handle rather than on the front? That's the way I was thinking to mount it as well, but wasn't sure if that was too much in the way while steering the cart.<br /> <br />Also, if you were only carrying two baby stands (without wheels), and two C-stands, where would you think it best to mount both stand holders? Thanks for all this info!</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Hi Ralph, is that Utility Roller for weddings?</p> <p>- Marc</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmowery Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 It's bad enough that I look like the band when I come I with the mini so you ca. Imagine the looks of the jr and senior cart. Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Marc said:</p> <blockquote> <p><em>Hi Ralph, is that Utility Roller for weddings?</em></p> </blockquote> <p>If you're asking about the Filmtools' vertical cart I linked, it's a production cart, similar to a Magliner, which Filmtools sells, mainly for film/TV production applications (e.g., sound mixers, DITs, etc.). Magliner makes a variety of materials handling carts for general warehousing and delivery applications. Two companies, Backstage, Inc., and Filmtools, Inc, modify, and make specialized accessories to fit these carts for film/TV production.</p> <p>Generically referred to as "Magliners," most media professionals are using the customized versions made by either Backstage or Filmtools. Very popular in film/TV production, Magliners are also commonly used in-studio by professional photographers. A variety of VESA and iMac mounts are made specifically for modified Magliners for photographers who shoot tethered.</p> <p>Here's something interesting: Backstage now makes a Magliner accessory <em>specifically</em> for owners of Profoto Pro-8a power packs (or, owners of power packs of similar dimension):</p> <p>http://www.adorama.com/BKMAGPPPF.html</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmowery Posted March 23, 2014 Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>I will say this Ralph, once you have used a Senior, Jr or mini you will not want to use anything else. The vertical cart is no comparison. Keep in mind the dimensions of which ever cart you want as it will make a difference whether or not you will be able to fit through narrow doors or be able to push it straight onto an elevator without having to angle it. Lets not forget about the weight too.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>Michael said:</p> <blockquote> <p><em>I will say this Ralph, once you have used a Senior, Jr or mini you will not want to use anything else.</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Yup! I'm working on how to design my cart now. I'm leaning toward the Jr., but can't decide on shelf width (18" or 24").</p> <blockquote> <p><em>Keep in mind the dimensions of which ever cart you want as it will make a difference whether or not you will be able to fit through narrow doors or be able to push it straight onto an elevator without having to angle it.</em></p> </blockquote> <p>Yeah, I think I'm going with the Jr. At least Filmtools is local, and I can actually try some of these out in person. The vertical Filmtools cart I was considering would be in addition to a main cart, designed solely to carry a heavy monolight, an attached stand, and an inverter only (basically trying to eliminate the hassle of setting up a stand, at least when still on level ground).</p> <p>We use large. two-shelf, Kart-a-Bags [Kartmaster HD500s] at work (which are a bit similar than the Sr. cart, but larger than the Jr.). We push 200 lbs. of TV gear on that thing through small doorways, elevators and whatnot all the time; however, sometimes we have turn the cart 90° in smaller elevators. We chose the Kart-a-Bags mainly because they collapse more compactly than Magliners (to be able to fit into our already-crowded Suburbans).</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 23, 2014 Author Share Posted March 23, 2014 <p>I began a new thread for this discussion here: http://www.photo.net/wedding-photography-forum/00cTL6</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studio460 Posted March 24, 2014 Author Share Posted March 24, 2014 <p>The Final Body-Count:</p> <p>Well, I may have landed my first wedding sooner that I thought (I'll know tomorrow--so, of course, I'm counting my chickens<em> right now!</em>). It's in less than two weeks, so I won't have time to design and build my super-duper Magliner cart by then, so I'll just use a cheap Rubbermaid-style cart from Harbor Freight for this one.</p> <p>I was able to pull up some photos of the venue to get some idea of what I'm dealing with. Nicely decorated interior, providing good detail for wide shots and bridal portraiture. There appears an adjacent wooded courtyard for exteriors--all good. No extended logistics required for this location. Of course, things could change drastically on the day, but so far it looks like I'll proceed according to my original plan.</p> <p>Bridal prep:</p> <p>• Nikon D3s body 'A' + Sigma 35mm f/1.4 + PocketWizard TT1.<br /> • Nikon D3s body 'B' + AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 + PocketWizard TT1.<br /> • Stand-mounted Westcott 45" soft silver umbrella + Nikon SB-800/PocketWizard TT5 + Quantum Turbo.</p> <p>Processional/ceremony/recessional:</p> <p>• Nikon D800E + AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4.0 + Newton bracket + Nikon SB-800 + Quantum Turbo.<br /> • Nikon D3s body 'A' + Sigma 35mm f/1.4.<br /> • Nikon D3s body 'B' + AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G VR.</p> <p>Formals: Interiors</p> <p>• Nikon D800E + Sigma 35mm f/1.4; Sigma 150mm f/2.8 OS + PocketWizard TT1.<br /> • Dynalite Uni400Jr. + Westcott 7' silver umbrella.<br /> • Dynalite Uni400Jr. + Westcott 7' shoot-through umbrella.<br /> • Nikon SB-800/PocketWizard TT5 units for background.</p> <p>Formals: Exteriors</p> <p>• Nikon D800E + AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4.0G VR + PocketWizard TT1.<br /> • Speedotron Force 10 (1,000Ws) + Photoflex 4' x 6' softbox + Dynalite XP-1100 AC inverter + PocketWizard TT5.</p> <p>Cake/garter/bouquet:</p> <p>• Nikon D800E + AF-S Nikkor 24-120mm f/4.0 + Newton bracket + Nikon SB-800 + Quantum Turbo.</p> <p>Reception:</p> <p>• Nikon D3s body 'A' + Sigma 35mm f/1.4.<br /> • Nikon D3s body 'B' + AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G.<br /> • Assistant-carried, pole-mounted, tungsten-balanced continuous light (VML inverter-powered).</p> <p>Now, of course, this is all time-permitting--I'll simply delete any gear I don't have time to set up, and prioritize each set-up on the spot (believe me, I'm very used to doing this on my day job when lighting for TV). Also, I'll modify as needed: If the 150mm is too long, I'll switch to the 85mm. If quarters get a bit tight, I'll switch the 35mm for the 24mm.</p> <p>If I get the job, it will be an un-commonly familiar crowd: Two members of the bridal party (including the groom) have crewed for me before on a short film--one is the niece of my girlfriend. Plus, I'll have two assistants, who everyone already knows. Parking looks like it will be just a few feet from the venue. I am prepared to battery power or inverter power all strobes--so no taping down cables is necessary. Again, logistics seem very optimal--looks like everything can happen within a 100' perimeter.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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