Dave410 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 <p>I asked this question before, but it was buried deep inside another thread and didn't get any traction, so I'll try again. I would really appreciate your insights.</p> <p>All else being equal, which combination do you think would give me better images in terms of sharpness and noise?</p> <p>A Canon 7D with the EF-S 17-55 f/2.8 IS lens (which I have) or<br /> a Canon 6D with the EF 24-70 f/2.8 L non-IS lens (which I'm considering)?</p> <p>I shoot mostly travel and landscapes with a very occasional portrait. I seldom, if ever, shoot sports or birds so the faster burst rate on the 7D isn't a factor for me. I do appreciate the longer reach of a crop sensor, but it's not a requirement. I'm also confused by all the discussions of focus points since I always focus with the center square and re-compose as needed. (Maybe I should use all those other points, but I don't.) One thing that is important to me is low-light performance. I often find myself in low-light situations where I unhappily increase the ISO to get the DOF I want. I also regularly shoot from a moving, vibrating vehicle and I like how the vibration just stops when I focus the IS lens. Finally, I confess to being a pixel peeper.</p> <p>What to you think? Your opinion is greatly appreciated.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarah_fox Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 <p>For low noise at high ISO, I'd get the 6D (if it really matters). If you like IS, and if you're not a wide-open sort of shooter (which it sounds like you're not), you shouldn't shy away from the 24-105/4 IS. It's an excellent lens.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip_wilson Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 For your type of shooting I prefer my 5DII to my 7D so I would suggest the 6D although I have never used it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDMvW Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 <p>The only thing against the 7D is that it's been around for a while. If you're not in a hurry you might want to see what the "mark ii" version would be like.<br /> Plus, you already have a swell EF-S lens for an APS-C body.</p> <p>If you have to go NOW, then probably the 6D, although I haven't personally used it. I second Sarah on the 24-105mm f/4 lens. Its strength is its superb range for the 35mm-sensor format as a general walk-around lens.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin carron Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 <p>This is a question that has taxed me as well as I ponder what next after my Canon 5DII. I think of the two I would go for the 6D as it is lighter and has a bigger ISO range. I have found the increased ISO range of the more modern cameras to be the area of change which has had most effect on my photography. Also another thumbs up for the 24-105 f4 IS L unless that one extra stop is important to you..</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith reeder Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 <p>Colin,</p> <p>with proper conversion and processing, the 7D will give you high ISO performance as good as anybody could reasonably want.</p> <p><a href="http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/4000_ISO_DxO_crop.jpg">This</a> is a 100% crop of a <a href="http://www.capture-the-moment.co.uk/tp/tfu29/upload/4000_ISO_DxO.jpg">4000 ISO file</a> from my 7D, converted in DxO Optics Pro 8 at default NR, with no additional NR applied - straight into Optics Pro and straight out at the other end, with no intervention on my part.</p> <p>Personally I think this quality of high ISO performance is excellent - and the 7D will do a lot of things the 6D can't do: it's a far more versatile camera.</p> <p>With that said, <em>for what you shoot</em>, the 6D will be great - I'm just adding some balance about high ISOs.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave410 Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 <p>Thanks, guys and gals. Great insights. I'm really surprised by all the suggestions for the 24-105 though. I purchased one with my first DSLR, a Canon 40D, and it was soft, even after I sent it back to Canon for adjustment, so I sold it. It's a perfect match for what I shoot, but I'm kinda biased against it. Maybe I just got a bad copy or didn't know how to use it.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip_wilson Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 David I am with you on the 24-105 and was not very happy with mine. I have not tried either of the new 24-70 s (f2.8 II or f4) but they may be worth a look. I have the old 24-70 F2.8 and while big and heavy it is definitely better than the 24-105 I had. Shot at f4 the old 24-70 was a lot better than the 24-105. I have always found thedigitalpicture.com resolution tests to closely match my experience. This may help http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample- Crops.aspx? Lens=823&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=355&CameraComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 >>> ... you shouldn't shy away from the 24-105/4 IS. It's an excellent lens.<P> Agreed. Mine is sharp. And a much better experience than the 24-70 f/2.8 I had for a long time, with respect to focus reliability.<P> >>> with proper conversion and processing, the 7D will give you high ISO performance as good as <s>anybody</s> I could reasonably want.<P> There, I fixed that for <i>you</i>.<P> >>> This is a 100% crop of a 4000 ISO file from my 7D, converted in DxO Optics Pro 8 at default NR, with no additional NR applied - straight into Optics Pro and straight out at the other end, with no intervention on my part.<P> Why is your image so soft? I can take my 6D files, which are much more robust out of the camera, and attain better quality images at higher ISOs without special processing. Lightroom works great. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith reeder Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 The image is so soft because - as you'd <i>know</i> if you'd troubled yourself to look at the other link - it's a crop from a very out-of-focus part of the original image.<br><br> If you're going to do smug and condescending, you've got to try harder than that, Brad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 >>> The image is so soft because - as you'd know if you'd troubled yourself to look at the other link - it's a crop from a very out-of-focus part of the original image. Why would you use that image then? As you might know, image softness comes as a consequence of aggressive noise reduction. Surely you must have other real-world images to put up as an example? >>> If you're going to do smug and condescending, you've got to try harder than that, Brad. Calm down Keith. Just commenting on *your* views, and that they might not adequately speak to others' photographic needs. www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcstep Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 <p>Shooting from a vibrating vehicle, boat or car, you need to raise SS to get rid of the shake. That often means raising ISO.</p> <p>The 6D is superior to the 7D at high ISO. It's not even close. You'll love the 6D. In fact, based on the comparative images at DPReview, the 70D has superior high-ISO performance to the 7D. I'd go with the 6D, but some may prefer the crop factor of the 70D, depending on which lenses are already owned, etc.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip_wilson Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 If high ISO is of concern I find my 5DII at least a stop and as much as two stops better than by 7D. I understand the 6D is better than the 5DII so I would expect it to be better still. One of the things I notice at higher ISO with the 7D is that it is very sensitive to nailing the exposure. A 1/3 or 1/2 stop exposure issue on the 5DII is no issue at ISO 1600 and not too bad at ISO 3200. With the 7D the same slight exposure issue will increase the noise significantly. Of course if you always nail the exposure this is not an issue - I sometimes have a 1/3 to 1/2 stop issue - especially when shooting in low light where meters are not always as accurate. For your uses you are probably going to shoot at lower ISO and even here I prefer the look of the 5DII files to the 7D files. Of course the 7D has lots of advantages of its own but for what you shoot you may not need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museebfoto Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 <p>As I think 7D works very good only with IS lenses, otherwise you may suffer from focusing.<br> <a href="/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00bvOP">http://www.photo.net/canon-eos-digital-camera-forum/00bvOP</a></p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcstep Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 <p>All my lenses have IS, but my 7D's AF is much less accurate, consistent and tenacious than my 5D MkIII's AF, particularly in the AI Servo mode. I don't think that the 7D's AF problems have anything to do with IS.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museebfoto Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 <p><strong>Hi David</strong><br> It seems you are interested in birds and wild photography and 7D is a perfect camera for this purpose. For me I have made the exchange and got 5DII, however, imagine yet I haven't use it !.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcstep Posted October 6, 2013 Share Posted October 6, 2013 <p>Museeb, the AF of the 7D makes it really hard to use for birds in flight. Maybe the MkII version will fix that, but, right now, the 5D MkIII is much better, due to its AF. When I switched from the 7D to the 5D MkIII my keeper rate more than doubled.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User_6667263 Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 <p>+1 for the 24-105L. I have a 6D and a 70D and for the situation you describe I would go with my 6D and 24-105.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
de_isaacs Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 <p>I shoot mostly Macro with a very occasional portrait - and some weddings for friends. I usually shoot flowers, butterflies, Bee's, & Hummingbirds- so the faster burst rate on the 7D IS a factor for my use. <br />I do appreciate the long reach of a crop sensor, and I use it when I put on my 90mm (around 140mm) and my 180mm (about 300mm) Tamron Macro Lenses. I'm a big proponent regarding the focus points since I focus as a function of the <br />golden rectangle or spirals in the camera - (I really like the versatility of all those other focusing points). <br> I think (having both a 5DmkII and a 7D) that the 7D is a far more versatile camera - but YMMV!<br> Good luck!<br> Derek</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcstep Posted October 7, 2013 Share Posted October 7, 2013 <p>There's a world of difference between the 5D MkiI AF and the MkIII. I own the MkIII and the 7D and find the 5D MkIII much more useful. Superior AF trumps crop, IME. In fact, I've found that to be so true that I'm taking the plunge for the 1D X, with even less pixel-density, but better high-ISO performance and AF that blows away the 5D MkIII when extenders are on the lenses.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathangardner Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 <p>6D.. From what I hear, the 6D handles noise better than the 5DIII, which is amazing. </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcstep Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 <p>The 6D and 5D MkIII are extremely close in high-ISO performance. Compare on DPReview.com For me, it's no reason to buy the 6D over the 5D3, but if you don't need the 5D3's superior AF, then it's a good reason to save some money and go with the 6D.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w_t1 Posted October 8, 2013 Share Posted October 8, 2013 <blockquote> <p>>>> with proper conversion and processing, the 7D will give you high ISO performance as good as <s>anybody</s> I could reasonably want.<br> There, I fixed that for <em>you</em>.</p> </blockquote> <p>I see this kind of thing all the time at this and other photography forums, and when I dare to venture to Farcebook. I don't get it, I'm assuming these are strangers posting, what drives people to correct words, spelling, grammar, etc.? </p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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