honeycomb effect on negs - what has caused this?!

[k_ellis1]

<p>Hello I was wondering if anyone may be able to help...<br /> I recently bought a Leica M6 and have been really enjoying using it, and getting some great results. however I just got back 2 rolls of film from the lab (with scans) and notice a strange 'honeycomb' type pattern across many of the scans and the overall quality is not as it usually is/should be (more grainy, less sharp). I was wondering what you think may be the cause of this? I tried re-scanning them and it showed up again so the problem is obviously on the negatives. I have attached a close up shot here to show you the problem (particularly obvious on the skin).<br /> As it is a fairly new camera I am obviously somewhat concerned, though I have had a few rolls of film developed before (both colour and black and white) that have been fine. Do you think it is an issue with the camera, the developing, or the film itself?<br /> Thanks in advance!<br>

[james_lai]

<p>Its been a few years since I've used film, but my guess is that this is reticulation caused by the lab not maintaining proper temperature control throughout the various stages of development. The camera is not at fault.</p>

[woolly1]

<p>I agree. First thing through my mind when I saw the image was "Reticulation, the developer is too hot."</p>

[k_ellis1]

<p>Thank you both for your comments, that's very useful. I am assuming there is nothing I can do to reverse it..?<br>

<br /> A roll (different film stock) I got developed in the same place a few weeks before came back very very grainy with a slight honeycomb effect possibly, though not as pronounced. I put this down to the film being expired but is it possible this is also due to film reticulation?<br>

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[michael_ginex1]

<p>These issues with developing B&W can be avoided by developing the film yourself. It isn't as difficult as it may seem and with a little practice you can see your finished negatives in less than a couple of hours and ready for scanning. I still shoot B&W with my M Leica's even though most of my color work is digital. Developing myself gives me greater control and even though it takes a little more time I still find it enjoyable. Just a suggestion. </p>

[k_ellis1]

<p>Yeah maybe this is the kick up the butt that I need to start developing my own B&W - thanks Michael :)</p>

[Thomas J.]

<p>Just have to ask....did you shoot the film at the box speed? If you shot it at a different speed and had it processed at the box speed, you're going to have results like this. I take the lab folks know what they're doing pretty well, especially if they've been in business awhile and they've done good on your last batch of negatives.</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>Developing at home is so easy. I do it in my kitchen sink. There are some great chemicals now that are not so smelly and don't rot and rust out your sink. Definitely a developer temp problem.</p>

[k_ellis1]

<p>Thanks again all for the comments. Thomas J - yes I shot it as 400 (the box speed) and had it processed as normal. Very strange. I have been in touch with the lab too and I am going to take the negs back in for them to have a look at. A real shame but I guess a lesson (and atleast it is not a problem with my camera!) Plus more of a reason for me to take control of developing myself i guess so then i have only myself to blame! Something to keep me busy over the winter months... ;)</p>

[Uhooru]

<p>Agree with James Li and Clive. Different temperatures between developer, stop bath and fixer can do that.. </p>

[gary_gumanow]

<p>Don't know if you've cropped these images. Depending on how you've cropped these, will have an impact on grain. </p>

[baisao]

Home B&W development is easy and if you follow best practices your results will be better than a lab. I've souped a lot

of.rolls without having the stop or rinse being the same temp as the developer and never encountered reticulation. My

understanding is that the temperature delta has to be pretty significant for this to happen, like +/- 15ºF difference.

 

Someone earlier insinuated that it probably wasn't the labs fault since a previous roll was ok and they've been in

business a long time. Maybe. Maybe not. A friend of mine got some rolls back from a well established pro lab recently.

Both rolls had surge marks on them. Apparently the lab had too many rolls to develop so they had an employee develop

a bunch of rolls at his home in a large tank. The force of the water moving through the large tank, perhaps not even over

agitated, caused the surge marks.

 

 

So, the film was dropped off at a well respected lab, developed incorrectly at home by an employee, then picked up by my

friend from the lab. From all outward appearances his film was developed by the lab yet was actually poorly developed by some

college student at home.

[k_ellis1]

 

<p>Thanks all.<br>

The first example is shown at 100% the second not so, hence the honeycomb effect being more noticeable on the first. Unfortunately, after rescanning the images using a drum scanner (no auto corrections/ICE etc), I can still see it loud and clear on both.<br>

Jim - interesting story.<br>

The lab have acknowledged it could possibly be a problem there but said it was strange as they process in batches of the same ISO film. Will take the negs in for them to see...<br /> Unless the film stock (though bought new online, i don't know how it had previously been stored...) was damaged/badly stored?!</p>

 

 

[john_r._fulton_jr.]

<p>It sure looks like reticulation to me, too. Lazy film develop personnel may work to get developer, stop, and fix to same temp but then plunge the film into ice cold final wash. Or worse, a hot wash. Some temperature deviation is okay but you have to work at it to get this. Developing your own B&W is fun. It'll scare you the first couple of times because of the unknown, but it's really just a cookbook process (time and temperature). Good luck.</p>

[k_ellis1]

<p>Thanks John</p>

[al_jennings]

<p>Looks great I'm going to experiment to try an recreate this</p>

[polka]

<p>I did it "on purpose" some 40 years ago : after developping a film normally and making some "normal" prints, I sinked the film a few minutes into hot water then let it dry and used it to get these reticulated pictures.<br>

Here I show the same picture before (BullNet) and after (BullRet) and a detail of the structures (BullDet)<br>

I do not remember the temperature of the water (maybe 45-60°C) nor the time (a few minutes, maybe 5 ?)<br>

You have to be cautious because the gelatine is very fragile after the treatment, as long as it is wet.</p><div></div>

[polka]

<p>Second picture :</p><div></div>

[polka]

<p>Third picture, a detail showing the structure :</p><div></div>

[polka]

<p>And last (but not least) a big picture :</p>

[polka]

<p>Did not work, trying again :</p><div></div>