Is there a camera with 3 direct controls for exposure?

[ken_l3]

<p>After reading the article below, I couldn't agree more with one request in that article. I'd like a camera with 3 direct controls for exposure. I understand that the "PASM" wheel sort of does that, but 3 separate direct controls would make so much more sense. (Plus an "auto" mode on each control can completely replace the "PASM"). <br>

<a href="http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/an_appeal_for_divergence_and_simplicity.shtml">http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/an_appeal_for_divergence_and_simplicity.shtml</a><br>

Is there a camera with 3 direct controls for exposure? Why do the well-known brands not make such cameras when quite a large number of people will appreciate it?</p>

[Wouter Willemse]

<p>There is quite something to be said for it, but the problem is that "<em>when quite a large number of people will appreciate it?</em>" might also very well be a false assumption. Photo forums and sites are a very skewed part of the customer base, especially for the larger brands. Many people are now used to the scene modes and do not actually bother all that much to set exposure themselves directly. Setting 3 wheels to AUTO or just one - when AUTO is what most users seem to be after? The choice is easily made.<br /> It's where the smaller brands have stepped in: Fuji especially mimicks older cameras with more direct controls in their X series, and with good acclaim and what seems to be commercial success as well. But not quite the sales volumes that the market leaders are doing.</p>

<p>So, yes, there are cameras that have these three controls seperately. Most of them take film, though, and are of decent vintage. But then, automation gave cameras the ability to detect the ISO rating of film, removing the (need for) ISO control; the aperture control became electronic moving it to a control wheel etc. All in the pursuit of simplicity for the mass volume...</p>

<p>[Edit]<br>

Thinking a bit longer, frankly, I think the article goes a bit over the top too. My main digital cameras are a D300 and D700; like all pro Nikons, they have a choice P, A, S, M, a dedicated wheel for shutterspeed, a dedicated wheel for aperture and a dedicated ISO button. It comes very close to the simplicity described in the article.</p>

[mike dixon]

Most of my shooting is in clubs and bars or out on the street (often at night). This means that the light levels I'm typically dealing with can vary significantly from shot to shot. If I take 200 shots, I probably make at least 50 adjustments to the exposure. However, the number of times I need to change the ISO is very limited. I might need to change it if I'm moving from one club to another or facing some other dramatic change in lighting, and then it's a matter of pressing down a conveniently-placed button and turning a wheel.

 

I seriously doubt that I would change my work methods to include changing ISO in addition to aperture, exposure compensation, and/or shutter speed (and, of course, focus). I think the author of the essay very-greatly overestimates the number of photographers who need (or think they need) a dedicated ISO dial.

 

As for the complicated menus, the vast majority of those functions are things that I set and forget. The few that get used often are on a custom menu that is accessed and used quickly.

[lex_jenkins]

The problem is getting any consensus on design. I think Nikon got it

right with the V1 shutter release and video buttons - and got almost

everything else wrong.

 

Ricoh got it right with the combination of external dedicated and

multifunction controls on the GRD and GX100, most of which can be

controlled with just the right hand thumb and forefinger. But the shutter

release button lacks the precise feel of the Nikon.

 

And there are probably some photographers who wouldn't like either of

those two designs.

 

Nikon's pro single digit D-series controls are good. The D7000 and

similar rear button placement seems too vulnerable to inadvertently

changing WB and other settings - but most folks seem to get along fine

with those models.

[ken_l3]

<p>@ Mike Dixon<br /> I agree that a dedicated ISO dial is the least needed of the three. My view may be skewed because my system - Panasonic micro four thirds - doesn't provide automatic ISO in the M mode. It imposes literally full manual mode. That makes me have to change the ISO a lot when I need a particular shutter speed to freeze motion and particular aperture for depth. What I really wanted was not three direct controls, but an automatic ISO option in the manual mode of my cameras.</p>

[David_Cavan]

<p>That does make sense Ken - I couldn't figure out why this was a challenge until you described that issue. I'm used to being able to define at least one of the three variables as automatic, with Canon equipment. I'll agree that it's a pain to have to fiddle with a button and a wheel in that case if we're setting ISO manually, but I tend to leave it automatic when I'm playing with shutter speed and aperture.</p>

[waltflanagan]

<p>My Nikon D90, D800, and D7100 have a front and rear dial. I shoot aperture priority and the front dial is aperture, the rear dial is ISO, and it picks the shutter speed. My D3 required you to push the ISO button and then change the rear dial to adjust ISO which was annoying. I can push the exposure comp button and move the rear dial without moving my eye from the viewfinder. When I adjust white balance I'm already looking at the rear LCD so a button plus dial doesn't bother me. I've grown so used to this setup that it feels natural and using my Nikon V1, Sony NEX-6, and even my old D3 makes me irritated. Years ago I had a D40X for hiking because it was so light but I hated going into the menus for everything.</p>

[peter_langfelder]

<blockquote>

<p><em>Is there a camera with 3 direct controls for exposure? Why do the well-known brands not make such cameras when quite a large number of people will appreciate it?</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes, there is. The Sony NEX 7 has 3 wheels which are fully customizable. My wife's NEX 7 was set up with Av, Tv, and ISO on a wheel each, which may even be the default setting. Despite that, the NEX 7 is not very popular.</p>

<p> </p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Take a look at the old Panasonic DMC-L1. It doesn't have 3 controls but 2. The aperture ring for aperture and the shutter speed dial for shutter speed. On each of these controls there is an A position where this control becomes automatic. It doesn't need the PASM control as the 2 direct controls take care of all 4 mode. If you set both controls at any position but A then it's M mode. If you set the aperture ring on A then it's A mode. If you set the shutter speed dial on A then it's S mode. And finally if you set both controls on A then it's P mode. </p>

[dan_south]

<p>When a lens is attached to my 4x5 film camera, it has exactly two manual exposure controls - aperture and shutter speed. Both are tricky to read in low light. The aperture dial is easily bumped when cocking the manual shutter. - Oh, did I mention that you have to manually cock the shutter?</p>

<p>ISO is easy. It depends on the kind of little celluloid sheet thingy that you load into the back. Of course the celluloid sheet thingy is extremely sensitive to light. You need to pack it into a special holder (in complete darkness) before you can do anything with it. And after you expose it. But its ISO value never changes unless you decide to push process. Of course, you'll have to find some clever way to keep track of which thingies to push and which to develop normally. And don't let any light or dirt or humidity come in contact with your thingies.</p>

<p>Now that I think about it, a DSLR with some knobs and a couple of backlit LCD screens isn't so difficult to use after all.</p>

[danmarchant]

<p>The 5DIII comes pretty close. I have the SET button configured as an ISO button. This means I can change the aperture by turning the Main dial, the shutter speed by turning the Quick Control dial and the ISO by pressing the SET button and turning the Main dial. All three settings using just one thumb and one finger, two dials and one button.</p>

[john_robison3]

<p>There are lots of cameras with direct exposure controls. <br>

Oh wait, those are film cameras.<br>

Never mind.</p>

<p>Seriously though, I've waited, with no hope that it will ever happen, for an 'affordable' DSLR with this feature.<br>

The closest I can get is to use my legacy lenses on my Olympus E-410 (how's that for a dinosaur). That gives me direct aperture and focus control. Then I can set the dumb bunny dial to 'S' and select shutter speeds. But I have to see them on the back display. Of course there is a 1/2 angle of view penalty with the 4:3 sensor. </p>

<p>The digital Leica M cameras have shutter speed dials and real focus and aperture rings but the price is out of reach for most mortals. There was a Panasonic fourthirds DSLR, LT-1 model I think, that had a SS dial and aperture ring but it's from about 2005 if I remember correctly. </p>

<p>Truth is, Nikon, Canon, and all the rest of the computer geeks who design "cameras" don't give a rats hind end about what photographers want. They think they have to stuff every 'feature' they can on their 'serious' cameras so that the great unwashed can be duly inpressed with a feature list that takes six screen pages to load. </p>

[David_Cavan]

<p>When you say "direct exposure controls" what are you referring to, john? My Canon DSLR bodies allow me to change shutter speed and aperture without removing my eye from the viewer, and even ISO can be set-up to do the same. As I recall that's no different than my Pentax film cameras - perhaps you're referring to some other control mechanisms?</p>

[john_robison3]

<p>Re; David Cavan's question,</p>

<p>When I say "direct exposure controls" I'm talking about a ring or dial that controls one function and one function only. An aperture ring with light but positive half click stops comes to mind. A shutter speed dial with clearly marked speeds that only controls that function. And no, going through a menu and screens to set up a control does not count.</p>

<p>Perhaps this will help.</p>

<p>A camera that looks, feels and acts just like a Nikon F2, or Canon F-1 or Olympus OM-1 or (name your favorite from the 1970's) but that has a digital back. In fact, the sensor is changeable for either monochrome only or for format size or the old one went belly up and is out of warranty.(why discard the rest of the camera)</p>

<p>While we are at it how about a well damped but lovely manual focus ring and DOF scale too. And how about interchangeable focus screens so that the AF crowd can have their "ultra bright but useless for manual focus" screen, and I can have my "designed for manual focus" screen that shows a real 'snap' when you hit focus.</p>

<p>The truth is; we will have cameras like these about the same time you see me flap my arms and fly to the moon. </p>

 

[David_Cavan]

<p>john - Our Canon DSLRs have one dial that controls aperture, another dial that controls shutter speed. Separate, distinct functions that only do those things while my eye is up on the viewfinder - no menus required. In fact, most of my photography (the vast majority) does not involve opening a menu, even though I shoot extensively in "M" mode. With individual 1/3 stop, "feel-able" clicks. I'm not sure how that is different than what you are describing - and I did use film DSLRs for 40 years so have some familiarity with what those cameras did with individual shutter controls on the body, and aperture controls on the lens.</p>

<p>As far as changing the sensor-size is concerned that's an interesting idea I've heard before, but I couldn't do that with my Pentax 35mm cameras, so haven't lost anything there either. It would be cool if one could do that, no doubt, but I haven't yet missed it.</p>

[john_robison3]

<p>Haven't handled a Canon or Nikon DSLR for several years. Totally lost interest in cameras after they started to resemble plastic blobs with LCD screens. The last time I held a DSLR at a store (about 2008) neither I or the saleaperson could figure out how to set the exposure to manual and have both shutter speed and aperture set manually. I'm not up on the different models of cameras and which are 'consumer grade' vs 'pro grade' cameras. The only stores around here who have cameras are Target, Best Buy and Costco and their selection's are a joke. They only carry Canon or Nikon and only the consumer models.</p>

<p>I have become well aquainted with my E-410 and when I use my legacy OM mount Zuikos I set the dummy dial to 'A' and let the camera set the shutter speed or to 'S' and then the back dial will alter the shutter speed and I control the aperture with my left hand. With a legacy lens the aperture of course is not viewable in the VF but the Shutter speed is. The E-410 was Olympus' low end consumer model and now all their regular mirror/reflex cameras have been dropped in favor of mirrorless m4:3. This is no doubt a smart busness move for a troubled company that may go out of the camera bussness anyway</p>

<p>Looking at the pictures on the B&H website I would assume you are talking about the edge of the dial sticking up right behind the shutter release and the big flat dial on the back of the camera. Are those the two dials you mean?</p>

<p>When, in Feb/1974 I got my first OM-1 I was thrilled beyond words. In Mar/2009 I bought the already discontinued E-410 with kit lens because the price had dropped to $325 and because I wanted to see what this digital stuff was all about. I unpacked it, charged the battery, played with it for a few minutes and then set it on the shelf. About as much excitement as buying laundry detergent. After a few years I've found a few uses. It makes a dandy meter for my film cameras. Takes OK snapshots for web use, and I can use it with a legacy macro lens to copy my 16mm submini, 35mm half frame and full frame B&W negatives into digital files.</p>

<p>If you haven't figured it out by now, I'm a bit of a crank.</p>

[David_Cavan]

<p>No worries john - I understand the perspective on things that work, and the value of the feel of film and legacy equipment. There's no doubt that there is a big difference with newer DSLR equipment especially. But for us the value of the digital product was worth the process of adopting something new, and I've grown quite comfortable with how well the medium fits into our travel and racing world. So no worries about your perspective - whatever turns that crank you mentioned.</p>

<p>You are right about the two wheels on Canon equipment - good catch on that. We stick with EF or EFS lenses, made by Canon, so all the auto-stuff works, especially the AF tools. I'm ok with AF, except for the occasional time I don't trust it - usually in very low-light scenarios. It's one of the automatic things that has made my life better.</p>

[lawrence_jones]

The Fuji X-Pro1 has a shutter dial, a function button defaulting to ISO, and most of the lenses have aperture rings.