Clean Film, Not!

[dan_brown4]

Thanks for tolerating all my recent queries, your help is most

appreciated.

 

I'm getting things pretty refined these days (Leica lens, PanF50,

pretty decent negs, and even respectible compostion and

subject matter), but the 16x20 prints are showing my

weaknesses, for sure.

 

I got a shot of the Modern Museum of Art in Fort Worth that I think

is the best fine art photo I have ever taken. But, the big print and

stark tones show some drying marks on the neg and even some

hairline scratches running the length of the film.

 

I need to fix these. I re-washed the neg in distilled water, hoping

that the water drying marks will go away.

 

Here is my film development process, how can I improve it?

 

I wash for 12-15 minutes in running tap water and then load

Kodak Photo-Flo (made with distilled water) in for 30 secs or a

minute. Pull the film out of the reel and then squeegee it

between my fingers. Then, hang it to dry in my relatively dust-free

darkroom (dust spots have not been a problem for me).

 

Still, I'm getting some water spots, and these light hair-line

scratches. Should I do a final rinse in distilled water? Is there a

particular squeegee that you would recommend? Just don't

squeegee? Is there a better final rinse product than Photo-Flo?

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks...

[barry schmetter]

First of all, there's no reason to squeegee your film with anything. The final rinse you describe (Photo-Flo in dH20) should be fine, but if you're still getting water spots perhaps there's a problem with the water. Water spots come from dissolved minerals in the water and the distillation process should remove them. You might try switching to another brand of water.

[roy_des_ruisseaux]

If you choose to squeege. Get a small Dupont sponge,cut it in half wash it out wring it out and store in a zip lock bag. After doing your photo flo soak them in the photo flo wring them out hang the film and squeege both sides at the same time. Just keep that sponge clean!!!

[john_hicks___]

> squeegee it

 

Stop that! Use distilled water for your Photo-Flo; also you might consider using Edwal LFN instead of Photo-Flo. Although I used Photo-Flo for many years I think LFN dries a little cleaner. No more squeegeeing. Take the film off the reel, grab an end in each hand and snap it a couple of times, not too violently, then hang it up to dry. The snapping flings water droplets off the film (and of course everywhere else).

 

If you still get scratches, clean off the camera's pressure plate with a lens tissue moistened in lens-cleaning juice or alcohol. Pressure-plate scratches usually print as dark lines although they may actually be pressure marks and print as white lines.

[lex_jenkins]

That's far more time than most films need for washing, Dan. The emulsion will be a fragile jelly from all that soaking. If you feel more confident in long washes, don't squeegee.

 

I use Ilford's tank-fill-agitate-and-dump method now. The whole process takes only a couplethree minutes. Final rinse with Photo-Flo in distilled water. And I do squeegee *very* gently between my fingers only after that final rinse. No scratches. But I don't like to let my negatives soak.

 

You might try Edwal's scratch fix stuff to prep your negs for printing.

 

How 'bout that new modern art museum in Fort Worth? Wow. I haven't even been inside yet and I'm already impressed.

[chris_waller]

Firstly, I use a variation on the Ilford hand washing method. Fill the tank with water, invert 10 times, empty and refill the tank, invert 20 times, empty and refill the tank, invert 40 times. Then mix up a small jug of water with wetting agent. I use Paterson wetting agent at its lowest concentration (16 drops in 800 ml water). I disperse the wetting agent in about 50 ml water and then make up to 800 ml. Immerse the reel of film in this with gentle agitation (i.e. raise and lower it slowly) to avoid excessive frothing. Then take the film out of the reel. DO NOT SQUEEGEE! Hang the film up in the dryer for a few minutes to allow the excess water to run off then switch the dryer on. This should deliver clean, sparkling negs. If you live in a hard water area then it might help to use distilled water for the final rinse in wetting agent.

[edward_zimmermann]

Another turn on the matter.. <em>centrifuge drying</em> using a salad spinner... these contraptions are often made of soft somewhat transpartent coloured plastics and cost around 2 EURO at the local "<cite>5 and dime</cite>".

<OL type="i">

<LI>Still on the reel: Final soak in <em>Aqua Destillata</em> or <em>deionized water</em>

or <em>boiled and decanted/filtered tap water</em> and a small amount of "<cite>wetting agent</cite>" (I use Agfa's Agepon). The trick is to use <u>less</u> and <u>not</u> more of these agents, typically around ¾ the specified dosis (with Agepon that's 1+250) for filtered water, less for <em>Aqua Destillata</em>!

<P>

Jobo has published several memorandums to the effect that wetting agents are not good for the plastics used in reels and tanks but the observation that <em>many</em> vendors use these same agents (in often higher concentrations) in their developers, I think, makes it effectively maculatura.

<LI>Place the reel into the salad spin (a typical cheap plastic model can take 2) and.. spin..

<LI>Remove from reel and hang to dry--- I now use one of those shower curtain drying cabinets (DevAppa FT-1800).

</OL>

[photobyalan.com]

I would not squeegee film at all rather than do it with my bare fingers. Feel your fingers. If they're like mine, they have a relatively rough surface with ridges.

 

I use powder-free disposable latex gloves when I handle film and throughout the developing process. Keeps fingerprints off the film and chemicals off my hands. The latex is soft and I can gently squeegee film with my gloved fingers without any scratches. I also give the film a final rinse in pure distilled water after the photo-flo. Since I hang the film to dry in the shower, I just pour a little distilled water on the top of the roll of film after it's already hanging and let it run down both sides. I never have any problems with water spots since I started doing this final rinse

[rick_jones5]

Dan-believe me, 16X20 prints from 35mm negatives will show anybodys weaknesses. To help pin down the source of the scratches: are they showing on all rolls, are they on the base or emulsion side and are they perfectly straight as if caused by dirt in the film canister light trap? The problems I have had with drying marks have been resolved by carefully controlling the dilution of the wetting agent. I use LFN and especially like the dropper squeeze bottle (maybe Kodak offers the same packaging?). I recommend you settle on the highest dilution that results in clean negatives. Use the same amount of distilled water regardless of how many rolls you are developing-I suggest 32oz. Start with 1 drop of LFN to 32oz and use more only if necessary. Instead of squeegeeing hang the film on a line and hold it out from the bottom at a 45 degree angle for a full minute allowing the water to drain to the lower edge and off the bottom corner. Weight the bottom edge and tiptoe out of the room. Presto! no more drying marks. Scratch Prevention: to be continued.

[tom_musselman]

Dan, are the scratch marks perfectly horizontal? Continuous throughout the film? If so they might be from dust in your camera. But if they look sloping, they are probably from your fingers. I agree with everybody about squeegeeing. Don't do it! Your water spots might be due to too much Photo-Flo. Use 1/2 to 1 ml per liter in distilled water. Distilled water doesn't need more. After washing in tap water, put the negs in this Photo-Flo solution for 30 seconds. Then just take them out of the Flo and hang them. No squeegee!

[dan_brown4]

Thanks, great info from so many people!

 

The scratches are not dead-striaght down the film, they are kind

of wavey, that's why I think they are squeegee, not film gate

marks. Non-issue now, I will never squeegee again.

 

The water marks are not droplet marks, rather they are streaks

where the water has run down the film. I am thinking I have

added too much Photo-Flo (I just dump a cap full in a quart of

distailled water). I think I'll try cutting way back, or just go to a

final rinse in distilled water.

 

I really like the idea of snapping the film, centrifical force, or

maybe shaking the reel a little before pulling the film. I'll try

some of these ideas. I'll also cut back a bit on the wash time

(how much do yo think, 5-7 minutes?).

 

I sure hope I can salvage the shot of the Modern (frankly I don't

get that many images that really "hit my button". And this one

does.

 

Lex, yea, the Modern is very cool (lot's of cool stuff in Fort Worth).

Haven't been inside yet either, too bad they post "No Photos in

the Exibit Areas" at the entrances. BTW, I am in North Richland

Hills, we should talk sometime, I'll PM you my telephone

number.

 

Thanks again everybody, this forum has really helped me lately,

my prints are actually getting better!!!

 

Thanks again ev

[tom_westbrook]

<i>I just dump a cap full in a quart of distailled water</i><p>

That's way too much. I usually mix it 2ml to one liter of distilled or filtered water (i.e. about 1:500). Seems to work fine.

[ed_workman]

You didn't say what developer and how you immersed the film, but I'll offer this:

Long ago I experienced "Mackie" lines where developer flowed onto the film unevenly, which I achieved by setting the stainless steel tank on the counter and pouring the developer (probly D-76 1:3) vertically into the central filling hole. I have never had a problem since I started tilting the tank while filling, even with Tech Pan. But the Mackie zones looked like water marks at first. I had stacked two 120 reels in the tank, thus the streaking appeared to cross the film, rather than parallel the length.

[steve_unsworth1]

The way I now do this is to do the wetting agent rinse using distilled water and a few drops of wetting agent. Then I take the reels out of the tank, throw away the wetting agent water and refill the tank with distilled water. I then dunk the reels quickly in the distilled water. After I've taken the reels out of the distilled water I snap them firmly several times to remove as much of the water as possible. Negatives come out fine.

 

I then use the water from the final distilled water rinse for the next wetting agent rinse.

 

I used to use a squeegee and the results were fine most of the time, but sooner or later you'll get scratches.

[lacey_smith4]

borderline related. I use lfn (and like it). Usually with Ilford, Delta 100 and some PanF, I do nto squeeze, and only rarely have a small drop to clena. However, I tried some Koday Tmax 100 this week, and the water did not show any signs of lfowing off, so I squeegeed. Same water supply, same lfn. Anyone else have this distinction, or was it a fluke?