Focusing with WLF vs. PME45

[Rob F.]

<p>I have and use both of these finders. Based solely on the magnification of each, it seems that the PME45 should be easier to focus with, because it has a 3X magnification to the WLF's 2.5. However (especially with wide angle lenses) I'm never sure where the point of best focus is with the PME45. Despite the lower magnification of the WLF, I can see better where the image snaps into best focus. I'd like to know what could account for this, optically. Has anyone else noticed this?</p>

<p>Any ideas?</p>

<p>I have thought of trying an HC3/70 to see if its 4x magnification might help me focus better than the 3X PME45. I don't think I'd like using the HC3/70 handheld, though! </p>

[martin_wouterlood1]

<p>Rob if memory serves me correctly, the wlf of the v series blad has the largest magnification at x4 ?4.5, not 2.5...I don't have ready access to my old catalogue that did have that info, so someone correct me if I'm out.</p>

[david_smith35]

<p>Rob, I'm surprised that you say the prism has a greater magnification than the WLF, as it's pretty obvious when viewing the image that the WLF has more magnification. It's the reason that, as you say, the image snaps into focus - that and the fact that the WLF will be brighter than the prism.<br /> I think Martin is right, and the magnification of the WLF is 4.5X if my memory serves me correctly.</p>

[Rob F.]

<p>Ernst Wildi lists the magnification of the WLF at 2.5 in the Hasselblad Manual. He shows 4x for the HC3/70; 3x for the HC4 and most other prisms. Richard Nordin, in the Hasselblad System Compendium, gives the same numbers.</p>

<p>Yes, it would make more sense if the WLF had the higher magnification number; but if it does, it's shown wrong in two places.</p>

<p>David, I agree the WLF is brighter, and that this probably is part of why it's easier to focus with.</p>

[ondebanks]

<p>It might be related to the working distance of the magnifying eyepiece from the focus screen? The WLF magnifier is just a few cm above the screen, so it does not need to magnify it greatly to make it appear large. (Obviously, an object appears larger and subtends a larger angle from a closer viewing position).</p>

<p>A prism viewfinder's eyepiece generally lies farther away from the screen, because of the need to pipe the light out horizontally and over the thickness of the film back. To achieve an equally large apparent image size of the focusing screen, it has to magnify more strongly from that more distant position.</p>

<p>But I guess what most photographers just want to know is not what the power of the eyepiece is, but rather how large will the focusing screen image appear? There is another way of specifying magnification - rather than being given as that of a magnifying glass/eyepiece working in isolation, it can be given in terms of the apparent size of the image projected by the standard lens through the viewfinder, compared to the naked eye's view of the same thing. That might be a more equal basis on which to specify magnification to most people. 35mm SLR viewfinder magnifications (fixed prisms in nearly every case) are stated in this way, assuming a 50mm standard lens on the camera.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

The new style folding focusing hood has indeed a 4.5x magnifier. The old style had a 2.5x magnifier.<br>The PME45 also has a 2.5x magnification. Less than the new style folding hood.<br>Less also than the 3x of the older meter prisms.<br><br>So the new style hood should be the easiest to focus. And i find it indeed is.

[Rob F.]

<p>Checking my WLF against the photo and description in Nordin, it has the hinged side panels that appear consistent with the later model. It also has a rectangular mounting panel for the lens, and this panel looks like it ought to be removable. So it looks like I do have the 4.5X magnifier after all, not the 2.5X I thought I had.</p>

<p>So I think I will just stick with my WLF, at least for my wide angle lenses (I use those 90% of the time). It might make sense to use my PME45 with the longer lenses.</p>

<p>Thanks, Q.G., and everyone!</p>

[leicaglow]

<p>Q.G., I wasn't aware of the difference in finders. I'll have to get a newer one. Was there any difference in the magnification of the chimney finders, and where do they fall into the magnification range? This is my favorite way to focus my Hasselblads.</p>

[Rob F.]

<p>My books show a magnification of 2.5X for most chimney finders, with the exception of the latest one shown in Nordin, which he indicates has a 3.3X magnification. That one, though, does not appear (from the picture Nordin shows) to have a diopter adjustment. Too bad!</p>

[paul_loveteck]

<p>When it comes to technical questions, I prefer to refer to Hasselblad rather than Nordin, Wildi or Q.G. independently of my respect for the two first mentioned.<br>

- The "newer" wlf (42315,42323) have a magnification of 5, not 4 or 4.5 . . .<br>

- The PM/PME prisms have a magnification of 3<br>

- The hood 52094 has a magnification of 3.5<br>

- The PME45 has a magnification of 2.5<br>

I would recommend the magnifier 42459 on the PM/PME prisms: it magnifies another 2.5 times for extremely precise focusing or the 42462 magnifier, doing the same for the PME45.<br>

Combined with an Acute Matte 42215/42170 or similar, they provide the most precise focusing I know on V series. (Tested with 50Mpx and 60Mpx digital backs, 40mm CFE IF, 100mm and 180mm lenses).</p>

 

[q.g._de_bakker]

And i would recommend, once again, that you get your facts right first, Paul.

[Rob F.]

<p>Paul, I did a quick check online. While I see Hasselblad websites for lens data, Google didn't capture anything about viewfinder specs. Where were you able to obtain viewfinder specs from Hasselblad? I'd like to have a copy. Or can you email or FAX me a copy?</p>

[paul_loveteck]

<p>Rob,<br>

One of the sources I used is the 1987/88 Hasselblad Product Catalog.<br>

I scanned the page 18 for you. <br>

<img src="http://98.158.18.96/b2bimages/photostoexchange/Magnification.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>And, once again, I recommend a lot of prudence when reading what Q.G. publishes. He is more interested in controversy and deception than truth and facts.<br>

Tell me if you need more original Hasselblad data on this subject, I will be glad to do more scanning.</p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

Please do, Paul.<br>Scan the Viewfinders page of, say, the 2001 catalogue and post it.<br>Or the relevant Technical Data pages from the "grey" V System catalogue.<br>Or [etc.].<br><br>Do put your trust in Nordin, Wildi. And even (perish the thought...) me. ;-)

[Rob F.]

<p>Thanks for the scan, Paul. I had forgotten about the catalog. I may even have a couple in the basement somewhere. I'd like to check how many different focusing screens have been made. Maybe I'll start a thread on screens.</p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

[paul_loveteck]

<p>Rob,<br>

A few more scans for later prisms (confirming what I had said earlier and adding some new parts).<br>

1 - From the 1991 Hasselblad catalog:<br>

<img src="http://98.158.18.96/b2bimages/photostoexchange/PM_FromCatalog.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>2 - The PME90 from my PME 90 manual: (Enlarges 2 x)</p>

<p><img src="http://98.158.18.96/b2bimages/photostoexchange/PME90_FromCatalog.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p>3 - The PME45 from my PME45 manual:<br>

<img src="http://98.158.18.96/b2bimages/photostoexchange/PME45_FromCatalog.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[q.g._de_bakker]

And now those pages i mentioned?<br>The source then still is Hasselblad. So why not, Paul?

[Rob F.]

<p>Thanks for the additional data, Paul. That 42462 magnifier: does it stay on all the time, or do you put it on to focus, then take it off to compose the shot? (I suspect the latter.)</p>

[paul_loveteck]

<p>Rob,<br>

The 42459 magnifier has a metal plate which mounts under the eyecup and has a hinge so you do not need to remove it.<br>

You only turn it out of the way, on the side. It also has a neat feature: The view magnifier can be adjusted from - 3 to +5 diopters.<br>

This is a picture of the 42459.<br>

The 42462 is very similar, except its plate mounts on the flash shoe.<br>

<img src="http://98.158.18.96/b2bimages/photostoexchange/Side1.jpg" alt="" /></p>

[Rob F.]

<p>Will that 42459 fit onto my PME 45?</p>

[paul_loveteck]

<p>Rob,<br>

No, the diameter of the eyepiece is different. You need a 42462 for the PME45.<br>

I loaned my 42459 to a friend and it is coming back in a few days: I will check, but I am pretty sure it won't fit.</p>

[paul_loveteck]

<p>I confirm that the 42459 does not fit the PME45. You need a 42462.<br>

This is what it looks like on one of my 503CW's:<br>

<img src="http://98.158.18.96/b2bimages/photostoexchange/DSC_9422_1200.jpg" alt="" /></p>

<p><img src="http://98.158.18.96/b2bimages/photostoexchange/DSC_9421_1200.jpg" alt="" width="1200" height="1056" /></p>

[Rob F.]

<p>Looks like it is secured by the accessory shoe. Thanks, Paul. Would you say these magnifiers are a bit vulnerable for field use? Maybe it would be a good idea to remove it before stowing the camera in the bag.</p>

<p>Best, Rob F.</p>

[ondebanks]

<p>Paul,</p>

<p>That's a pretty dreamy setup, with the matching CFV-50 digital back.</p>

<p>Ah, remember when Hasselblad made products which were original, functional and understatedly stylish? Before the Lunacy set in...</p>

[paul_loveteck]

<p>Rob,<br>

Not to worry: the thing is all metal. I have been keeping it on a camera for years with no problem, in a bag or on my shoulder.<br>

I only need to remember to move it to the side before closing the bag as otherwise it adds some height to the system. When on the side, the 42462 rubber eyecup protects the PME45 from being scratched.</p>