Comparison of 400Ws portable strobes: Quadra, Quantum, Lumedyne, etc.

[studio460]

<p>I mentioned in another thread that I was about to buy a used lead-gel Elinchrom Ranger kit (even used, they're super-expensive), then found the Impact-brand LiteTrek 4.0 400Ws Lithium pack system for only $650 (also sold under the Phottix brand as the PPL-400). I was considering the Lithium Ranger Quadra kit for faster recycle times (over the lead-gel version), but Elinchrom's Lithium battery packs are crazy-expensive. Also, since Li-ions require careful care and maintenance, and have far fewer maximum charge cycles than SLAs (sealed lead-acid batteries), I originally went with SLAs for my "heavy-lifting" AC inverters (a pair of Dynalite XP-1100s). Spare batteries for Dynalite XP-1100s only cost about $120 each, and are available from a wide variety of non-photo specific suppliers. Of course, the trade-off is weight--the XP-1100s weigh a ton.</p>

<p>I was all set on getting the Impact LiteTrek 4.0 product, plus a bunch of (relatively) inexpensive, Impact-brand Li-ion spares, then of course, I started looking at Quantum units again. Also, it seems that 400Ws is just "about right," and powerful enough for a number of daylight-exterior applications, even with modifiers--here's a test image I shot yesterday using a 400Ws, Dynalite Uni400 Jr.through a double-baffled 4' x 6' softbox placed about 6-feet from the subject (powered by a Dynalite XP-1100 AC inverter):</p>

<p><img src="http://studio460.com/images/4x6-1.jpg" alt="" width="700" height="467" /><br /> Dynalite Uni400 Jr. + XP-1100</p>

<p>Yeah, that XP-1100 is heavy, but it sure recycles fast--virtually identical to wall-powered cycle-times (just under two seconds at full power). Now, I'll still keep the Dynalite Uni400s so that I'll have AC-powerable strobes on hand as well. But I'm re-considering what my 400Ws, "ultra-portable" system should be. I'll only be buying a single head, and will mainly be using it on an assistant-held pole with a 3' octa. I'm primarily looking at three factors:</p>

<p>1. Lightweight head.<br /> 2. Recycle time.<br /> 3. Cost of spare/replacement batteries.</p>

<p>Requirements:</p>

<p>A. 400Ws minimum.<br /> B. Li-ion battery system.<br /> C. Belt-worn battery/inverter.</p>

<p>I've pretty much discounted the otherwise excellent Elinchrom Ranger Quadra series--I've simply had too much Li-ion failure of very expensive battery systems in the past, so I'm leaning toward the LiteTrek system, mainly for its low-cost Li-ion replacement batteries. But then I came back to looking at the Quantum Qflash units again. So here's what I'm considering:</p>

<p>1. Quantum.<br /> 2. Lumedyne.<br /> 3. LiteTrek/Phottix.<br /> 4. Vagabond Mini-Lithium (I already own two of these, and one battery just failed).<br /> 5. Some "hybrid" solution I haven't thought of?</p>

<p>[Note that I'm not considering Einstein E640s--they're simply too heavy at 5.3 lbs. My Dynalite Uni400 Jr. weighs 3.6 lbs., and the LiteTrek head weighs 2.5 lbs. For comparison, the Elinchrom Quadra head weighs only 0.55 lbs.]</p>

<p>Anything else worth considering which I'm overlooking?</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

A Paul C. Buff Einstein 640 to go along with your VMLs.

A Norman 400C

The new Profoto B1 -Battery powered only (batteries are replaceable but clip into the head) 500 Watt-second flash with

the option of TTL control (canon only right now, Nikon is coming).

 

 

P

[fotografz]

<p>Nice shot Ralph.</p>

<p>If I recall correctly, in battery mode, the Dynalite Unis are 320W/s not 400 ... they are 400W/s in AC "Studio" mode. When I had that kit I used the JackRabbits.</p>

<p>I would NOT recommend the Quadra with a 3' Octa IF it is the EL Rotalux 39" Deep Octa. The adapted mount from Quadra to EL is simply not stable enough outdoors and being moved around a lot ... (IMO, and direct experience). The 27" works okay.</p>

<p>I will say that since swapping over to the Lith Ion batteries on the Quadra, I've had no issues at all ... I kept the lead batteries only because Elinchrom says they perform better in cold weather (?)</p>

<p>I wouldn't dismiss the Quadra because of the battery ... perhaps not all Liths are created equal?</p>

<p>To be fair, I haven't had any issue with the PCB Vagabond Mini's Liths either ... I used them last Spring to power my Profoto D1s ... and yesterday we had an area power outage, and I fired them up after sitting for 6 months and they were still fully charged and ran our household lights and the TV/cable-box.</p>

<p>My problem with the bare-bulb units is the whole modifier with speed-ring issue being different from other lights. Swapping speed-rings is a PITA. </p>

<p>Is there any way to standardize your lighting kit somehow? </p>

<p>I've been doing that more lately ... since Elinchrom brought out the Rotalux speed-rings for most other make mounts, it been easier to do that and keep the wonderful Rotalux Deep octa functionality. </p>

<p>Not that I am necessarily recommending it, but my go to solution for one light on an assistant controlled boom arm has been the Profoto Acute B600 AIR Life Lithium. Super reliable, with a head that weighs 3.2 lbs and a 7.9lb battery pack the assistant slings over their shoulder then sits it on the ground when shooting ... "Life" Battery is purported to last 4X that of other batteries (what other ones I have no idea) ... but they do blab on about the "extremely" long life. On the other hand, I've seen some good deals on Acute B600Rs that use PW trigger.</p>

<p>- Marc </p>

<p> </p>

[peter_cohen]

<p>+1 on that image, Ralph. Very nice balance with the ambient and shadow transitions from that big softbox. Well played.</p>

<p>FWIW, I gave up my Lumedyne system in favor of a [used] Quadra with SLA that I got a couple of weeks ago and I could not be happier. Very fast recycle and tons of power. The ability to have almost seven stops of power from which to choose is awesome. A touch of light when you want all the way up to 400. Not sure why you'd want the battery on a belt, as that will eliminate the possibility of using the battery as a weight on your light stand when your assistant is not holding it. I use the Quadra with a Photek Softliter fed through an umbrella adapter, which eliminates the need of pushing the umbrella shaft through the Quadra's friction-hold umbrella slot. All in all, a super, light-weight, powerful location rig that's very portable. Note that the Quadra ( if you change your mind and go back to that kit) comes with an 8' cable from pack to head; you may need a longer cable if you're going to mount the head on a painter's pole. Use the Kacey adapter for that mount, btw. Very neat and pro-looking.</p>

<p>My only experience with the Impact batteries has been phenomenal. I use then to power my Quantum Trios and they are amazing. The Quantum Turbos sit in the bag as backups if we need to recharge during an event, but I have to say that I have fired 1,000+ TTL pops in near-dark party rooms in the span of four hours and have yet to see more than one of the four power lights go out.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

[studio460]

<p>Hey, thanks for the kind words--high praise from the likes of you guys! I just wished I shot it with my Sigma 150mm f/2.8 instead of the 85mm--there's just a bit too much foreshortening in that shot for my tastes (it was just a quick test anyway). By the way, I was surprised at how much output I got from the Dynalite Uni400. I think it was only at half-power, plus I had a polarizer on (used as an ND), and was also shooting above x-sync. I plan to also comment on all of your recommendations as well, but wanted to get this Li-ion info out first.</p>

<p>Here's my experience with Li-ion batteries:</p>

<p>When I first began buying Li-ions for video applications, Panasonic recommended storing Li-ions at half-charge. Sony recommended storing Li-ions at full-charge (or was it the other way around?). My experience is with expensive, high amp-hour "brick" batteries for broadcast video cameras (plus my one Vagabond Mini-Lithium, which just died). Where I work, we have four, 183 Watt-hour Anton Bauer Li-ion batteries per package ($956 each). It seems at least one always dies prematurely within a year. All either die or lose significant capacity within about four to five years. All bricks are kept on $1,500 "smart" Anton Bauer conditioning chargers, as recommended by the manufacturer.</p>

<p>I've also owned expensive Sony Li-ion brick batteries which were completely murdered by its dedicated, $1,200 Sony "smart" charger. Knowing that Li-ions are sensitive to charge state when stored, I did my best to maintain my two Vagabond Li-ion batteries, but still one died just a little over a year after purchase (thankfully, the replacement battery is only $89).</p>

<p>According to battery manufacturer, Anton Bauer [the de-facto authority on professional battery maintenance]:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>"Although lithium-ion has good self-discharge characteristics, long term storage in a fully charged condition will result in <strong>irreversible capacity loss</strong>. This is a problem for all lithium ion batteries – from cell phones to video cameras. Use the battery; do not store it for extended periods."</em></p>

</blockquote>

 

<blockquote>

<p><em>"Batteries should always be stored in a <strong>partially charged state</strong> and kept cool. If batteries must be stored for a long period (over six months), they should be periodically removed from storage and submitted to a discharge/charge cycle." --Anton Bauer user manual.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Therein lies my preference for SLAs. Robust, inexpensive, and easy to care for. I simply don't shoot with enough frequency yet to fully "use" my Li-ions, keeping them well-maintained. However, I would still love a Li-ion Elinchrom Quadra one-light system, but I wasn't able to find the price of the Elinchrom replacement battery for it (neither could I find a third-party Li-ion battery-only replacement).</p>

[studio460]

<p>Peter said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>My only experience with the Impact batteries has been phenomenal. I use then to power my Quantum Trios and they are amazing. The Quantum Turbos sit in the bag as backups if we need to recharge during an event, but I have to say that I have fired 1,000+ TTL pops in near-dark party rooms in the span of four hours and have yet to see more than one of the four power lights go out.</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Wow! That's quite an endorsement! (Thanks, again for the kind words!) Yes, I found it interesting that the Impact Lithium pack can also support Speedlights' high-voltage inputs. I have two recently re-celled Turbos (replacement batteries are less than $20 each) which work fine, but the Impacts sound even better. I assume you're also benefitting from decreased recycle times using the Lithium-based Impacts vs. the SLA-based Turbos (which are pretty fast themselves), which makes me even more inclined to go with the Impact Lithiums. I see that they work fine with your Trios, but does anyone know if the Impacts can also power the Quantum Qflash X5DRs at 400 Watt-seconds?</p>

[peter_cohen]

<p>You're correct on the recycle times. The flash is ready when I am. I don't shoot on continuous mode, but the battery will fire the flash as fast as I can push the shutter release in a sequence.</p>

[studio460]

<p>I said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>. . . but I wasn't able to find the price of the Elinchrom replacement battery for it (neither could I find a third-party Li-ion battery-only replacement).</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>I found it: it's $499 for the Elinchrom Li-ion replacement battery (rated at 320 full-power, 400Ws flashes by the manufacturer--no amp-hour rating for the battery is indicated).<br /> <br /> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/887622-REG/Elinchrom_el_19299_Quadra_Li_Ion_Battery_and.html</p>

<p>In contrast, the Impact 7,200 mAh Li-ion replacement battery (rated at 650 full-power, 400Ws flashes by the manufacturer) sells for only $174.95.</p>

<p>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/695152-REG/Impact_10052550_Mini_LT_Portable_Battery.html</p>

[peter_cohen]

<p>And don't forget that you'll need two batteries so you'll have a backup when Mr Murphy visits. The battery without the charger is less. Doesn't that make you feel better?</p>

[studio460]

<p>Peter said:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>The battery without the charger is less. </em></p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ah! You're right! Darn, this was so hard to find on B+H! The replacement Li-ion battery <em>alone</em>, for the Elinchrom Ranger Quadra is $374.99:<br /> <br /> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/887625-REG/Elinchrom_el_19295_Quadra_Li_Ion_Battery_and.html<br /> <br /> Also, note that Elinchrom also sells a "battery box" separately for $99.99 for their lead-gel (SLA) battery, so if someone wants to source an OEM SLA cell from another vendor, some additional savings may potentially be had for users of SLA-based systems:<br /> <br /> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=Elinchrom+battery+box&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=</p>

[asdf_jkl2]

<p>Hey Ralph, I'm curious to what you have decided on... thanks. :)</p>

[studio460]

<p>Funny you should ask! I think I've just decided on the 400Ws LiteTrek Li-ion system for my battery-powered, run-and-gun set-up:</p>

<p>Impact LiteTrek 4.0 400Ws DC monolight (Bowens-compatible mount) + Lithium power pack: $649.95 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/695135-REG/Impact_10052520_LiteTrek_4_0_Monolight_and.html<br /> Impact Mini LiteTrek Li-ion spare battery: $174.95 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/695152-REG/Impact_10052550_Mini_LT_Portable_Battery.html<br /> Elinchrom Rotalux Speedring Adapter for Bowens: $78.99 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/887637-REG/Elinchrom_el_26530_Rotalux_Speed_Ring_Adapter.html<br /> Elinchrom 39" Mini-Octa Rotalux Litebank: $254.99 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/176939-REG/Elinchrom_EL_26183_39_Mini_Octa_Lite.html</p>

<p>This system pretty much satisfies all of my requirements, including a relatively low-weight head, a belt-wearable power supply, and the availability of reasonably priced spare Li-ion batteries (the option to be able to use Elinchrom modifiers came as a bonus!):</p>

<p>LiteTrek head: 2.6 lbs.<br /> LiteTrek Li-ion battery pack: 2.1 lbs.</p>

<p>Maximum/minimum output: 400Ws-6.25Ws (7-stop range).<br /> Recycle: 1.0-3.5 sec.<br /> Charge time: 4 hours.<br /> Li-ion battery capacity: 7,200 mAh<br /> Full-power flashes: 650<br /> 1/64th-power flashes: 3,500<br /> Flash duration: 1/2,200th - 1/14,000th</p>

<p>[Note: The LiteTrek Li-ion battery can also double as a Speedlight power supply, able to power any on-camera flash with high-voltage inputs (e.g., Nikon SB-800, SB-900, SB-910, Quantum Qflash, Trio, etc.)]</p>

<p>Although the B+H product description mentions that the LiteTrek <em>" . . . has a 400Ws capacity, delivered in 1-2 seconds,"</em> the B+H listed specs says recycle time is between <em>1.0-3.5 seconds</em>, which sounds a bit weird, since at 1/64th power, I imagine the recycle time would be near-instantaneous.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Just to re-cap this thread . . . I finally (just) decided that I couldn't justify the expense of the LiteTrek system, to gain only a slight increase in convenience, let alone yet <em>another</em> finicky Li-ion battery system to support and maintain. So, only last night, I decided against the LiteTrek system, as good as it seems to be. The darn thing was in my cart up until last night, and with an extra battery, and this and that, it totaled over $1,000. I finally came back to my senses, and decided I'll just keep using my one-pound heavier Dynalite Uni400 Jr. heads with my Vagabond Mini-Lithium AC inverters for my "ultra-portable" 400Ws system.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Also, just for comparison, note that the Paul C. Buff Vagabond Mini-Lithium is rated at 8.8 amp-hours (130 Watt-hours) at 14.8 volts. This actually represents greater capacity than the LiteTrek battery, which is rated less, at only 7.2 amp-hours. Plus, the spare Vagabond batteries sell for only $89.95, while the LiteTrek Li-ion batteries sell for $174.95, which is just about <em>double</em> the price of the Vagabond Li-ion battery.</p>

[studio460]

<p>6.2015 update:</p>

<p>Now, my <em>second</em> VML Li-ion battery is now DOA. I never did go with the LiteTrek product, but I was all set to buy another Chinese-import, the Godox XEnergizer RS600R (a 600-Watt second, poor-man's Quadra), but learned from recent feedback on another forum that an undetermined number of the Godox power packs (those with the "XEnergizer" logo imprinted on it) may be problematic. So, just last month (May 2015) during Adorama's 50%-off sale on Elinchrom gear, I finally made the move to an Elinchrom Quadra system:</p>

<p>• Elinchrom Ranger Quadra Hybrid<br /> • Li-ion batteries x2<br /> • Single 'S' head.<br /> • RQ ECO ringflash.<br /> • Quadra reflector adapter MK-II.<br /> • 1.5M feeder cable.<br /> • 33200 Quadra case.<br /> • ThinkTank Skin Body Bag, model #052<br /> <br /> I did a test shoot with the ECO ringflash at an event, and as I expected, found the shoulder strap and 2.5-meter feeder cable awkward and cumbersome. I immediately ordered the shorter 1.5M cable, and a ThinkTank Skin body bag, which happens to fit the Quadra Hybrid pack perfectly. Now, I have much more user-friendly set-up for unassisted shooting (I wear the ThinkTank pouch on a 2" nylon Lindcraft grip belt).</p>

<p>First test-shot with the Elinchrom Ranger Quadra ECO ringlight:<br /> <img src="http://studio460.com/images/PNET-ECO-1.png" alt="" width="513" height="768" /><br /> <br /> There are now other battery-powered 400-600Ws portable flash systems on the market, mostly Chinese-import brands, but after receiving the Elinchrom Quadra, the Swiss-made product's build quality made a notable impression--the fit and finish of the case, the ease and operability of its connectors--everything just seems "right." Now, I don't think I would be happy with anything less.</p>

[studio460]

<p>[Note: If it weren't for Adorama's 50%-off sale, I would've likely decided to go with the improved version of the Godox XEnergizer strobe, the Cheetahstand CL-600, which has a promised availability of mid-June 2015 from its US-based importer. Feature-for-feature, it appears to outperform the Quadra (and will likely be far more affordable); however, Elinchrom's ECO ringlight was a significant reason for going with the Quadra system instead.]</p>

[studio460]

<p>Here's the new <a href="https://www.cheetahstand.com/product-p/cl-600.htm">Cheetahstand CL-600</a> (a.k.a. the "Quadra-killer"). This is the improved, re-engineered version of the Godox XEnergixer RS600R portable 600Ws Quadra-like strobe. Lots of bang for the buck!</p>