Good Beginner 35mm?

[Andrew Garrard]

<blockquote>While we are being pedantic, the 750 and 850 are not DSLRs, but film SLRs - 35mm for sure! ;-)</blockquote>

 

<p>That's embarrassing. Please put it down to jetlag. SLR, not D-SLR, as you say. It turns out that I have a finger twitch whenever I try to type "SLR" that makes me try to put a "D" in front of it... Apologies if the original poster was confused.<br />

<br />

In other options, the A-1 is an FD-mount camera. That means any lenses you get for it won't also work (easily) on a current DSLR - or recent film camera, meaning that if you move to a DSLR later then you'll have to get new lenses. I don't think Canon every made an EF-mount (the current lens standard) camera that was fully manual, if that's what you're looking for.<br />

<br />

Nikon, who have kept their lens mount for longer (sort of), did make manual cameras with the current mount, though there are compatibility issues. I honestly suspect that if you turn up with a camera which is <i>capable</i> of manual operation and promise faithfully that you'll keep it in "M" (manual) mode, that would be fine. Fun though it is to shoot with the SLR equivalent of a Bessa R, there's "restricting the automation while you learn" and there's "paying over the odds for outdated technology", and I doubt you'll be penalized for doing the former while avoiding the latter. Honestly, it would be more informative to turn up with a DSLR so you can see the effects of your changes on images without having to wait to get film developed, but it's not my place to tell the person running the course how to do so.</p>

[fmueller]

<blockquote>

<p>The best way to learn the effects of aperture, shutter speed, focus points, etc. is to manually adjust them one by one and see the results</p>

</blockquote>

<p>...instantly, which is most feasible if using a digital camera.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>A totally manual camera insures that the student does not deliberately or accidentally go into a semi-auto or full auto mode.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>One could question if any true learning is even possible in an environment that is thus dominated by command and control. My personal preference would be asking the students to set the mode dial to M for the duration of the class and leave it there. Those who want to get the full benefit of the course will follow that advice. The rest will deprive themselves of a learning experience, but I would not make that my problem.</p>

[Andrew Garrard]

<p>Frank: Agreed. The good news for buying a film camera is that they're (mostly) cheap. The bad news is that you're still paying for a lens (which may or may not be compatible with a newer camera) and for film developing, and you have to wait for long enough that you've forgotten you settings to learn what you did. I have exposed film sitting in the fridge from a year ago, waiting for me to get around to sending a bulk load off for developing. For what it's worth, I learned to shoot on a DSLR, then got film cameras afterwards - in this day and age, that approach seems eminently sensible to me. I make no pretence of being a good photographer, but I do claim to understand exposure.<br />

<br />

But, as I said, if the teacher has a specific work flow (especially if they're providing film and trying to teach darkroom skills) then it's not my place to tell them otherwise. Though it might not hurt to ask if you could turn up with a DSLR if you promised to leave it in manual mode for the relevant bits of the course...</p>

[DWScott]

<p>The best 35mm cameras for learning are the simplest - shutter speed dial, aperture ring, and light meter. Many of the classic recommendations can fall down on the last point -- light meters on some of these cameras are getting old, battery types changed, etc. And the "king" of student cameras (the Pentax K1000) suffers from high prices because it is THE recommended student camera.</p>

<p>Cheapest ($5 to $50, with lens): Pentax P3n. This camera has every feature you want, none that you don't, uses a readily available battery and has reliable metering. It is newer, which means it's less likely to need servicing and is not attractive to collectors - which keeps the price dirt cheap.</p>

<p>Mid range ($50 to $150, with lens): Pentax MX. Classic manual controls. No fripperies. Reliable meter. Built like a tiny tank, this camera will last your photographic career.</p>

<p>Mid to high range ($150 to $250, with lens): Nikon FM2n, Nikon F3HP. Classic manual controls, reliable meters. Some advantages (FM2n is great for manual fill-flash, F3HP is built to withstand a war zone.)</p>

<p>New options: Nikon FM10 ($300 with lens), Vivitar V3800n ($200 with lens, lens mount is Pentax.) Because sometimes you just want to buy a new camera instead of used. These are basically the same Cosina-made camera, rebranded. Probably not the sturdiest camera ever made, but will do the job admirably.</p>

 

[James G. Dainis]

Way back when, the Pentax K1000 was recommended to students because it had all the manual controls and was relatively cheap. Cheap was good for a student. Now it is not so cheap compared to other manual cameras but the "student camera" designation has stuck.

[JDMvW]

<p><strong>The catch here is the requirement that it have an "internal light meter"</strong> (especially if it is required that the meter actually works). Many of the older Pentax 35mm cameras as well as others mentioned will not usually have a working meter.<br /> If the teacher will allow a modern film camera that has AF and automatic exposure to be used in full manual mode, you're much more likely to find a Canon EOS 620 or 650 (body about the price of a fancy pizza) or a something like a Nikon 2020 (about the same) on which the components still work. <br /> The catch (and potential benefit) is that these use more or less modern lenses that still work on many digital models, so the lenses cost a little more. The solution is to get either a 50mm f/1.8 prime or one of the earlier 35-80mm or so zooms; those are pretty reasonable.</p>

[johnny_wu1]

<p>If you're looking for one for less than $100 with a 35mm or 50mm lens, I'd go with a Nikon FG or FG-20 with a series e 50mm f1.8 or 35mm f2.5.</p>

<p>If you're willing to spend a bit more, then a Nikon FE2/FM2 will do pretty good too. Swing for the non-series e primes for better-built lenses if desired.</p>

<p>Pentax Spotmatics and related bodies are nice classic cameras, and some of the off-brand lenses can be had for a song (or if you're lucky, you can get a Takumar 55mm 1.8 at the flea market for almost nothing, I've seen plenty of them at my local market).</p>

<p>To be honest though, I wouldn't spend too much on the body. Just make sure it's reliable and has good seals/operations and you can't go wrong.</p>

[peter_simpson1]

<p>Check shopgoodwill.com -- there are still bargains. F3's go for not much over $100 and can be less. They are fully manual unless you set them to auto mode. If that's permitted, it's a camera you'll keep and built like a tank. They take two of the commonly available SR44 batteries.</p>

<p>If you go with the canonical Pentax K1000, I've read that the ones marked "Asahi Pentax" are better build quality.</p>

[andrewg_ny]

JDM: "Many of the older Pentax 35mm cameras as well as others mentioned will not usually have a working meter."

 

This may not be what you intended to suggest but I don't believe that Pentax cameras are any likelier than other makes to

have dead meters.

 

Essentially any old camera can suffer either mechanical or electrical glitches. For an old manual-focus, manual-film-

advance model, often the electrics were only responsible for the meter, and the camera may function at 100% otherwise.

Cameras of these sorts tended to have relatively crude electronics that given the age of the camera (most of this sort

we're describing we're probably new in the late 1970's or early 1980's and if not heavily used at the time have been sitting

around for 25 years or more. It would take just one loose/corroded connection/broken solder to lose metering, or maybe

a bad leak in the battery compartment.

 

The newer cameras generally have more robust electronics using more modern manufacturing techniques, but if anything

had gone wrong often the entire camera would go kaput -- might not switch on, shutter won't cycle, etc. These cameras

have relative modernity, somewhat more forgiving flexible plastic shells, and generally less time on the shelf on their side.

They're also less likely to have foam/rubber parts disintegrate into a sticky goo by this time, and the electronically timed

shutters are more likely to be accurate than a mechanical camera that likely hasn't ever been CLA'ed.

 

In short, a 2000 Canon EOS Rebel is somewhat more likely to have a working meter than a 1989 Pentax P3n which is in

turn more likely to be fully functional vs a 1982 Nikon FG (or Pentax ME Super, Minolta X700, Canon AE-1...).

 

If the idea of a classic mid-70's manual focus camera like a Minolta SRT, Nikkormat or Pentax KX has appeal, I also want

to suggest the superb but today-oft-forgotten Konica Autoreflex series.

[bobbuck19]

<p>What about the bessaflex, a newer fully manual camera uses m42 lenses of which there are tons, bought one new to use with my m42 lenses, solid, simple and new enough that there shouldn't be many problems with it.</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>I was not singling out Pentax, so no need to get defensive. Old meters just tend not to work any more, and batteries that fit and work well may also be hard to find.<br>

That's why newer cameras are to be recommended depending on the rules laid down by the teacher. In fact asking for a recommendation from the teacher is an excellent place to start.</p>

[danny_low]

<p><em>"If you go with the canonical Pentax K1000, I've read that the ones marked "Asahi Pentax" are better build quality."</em></p>

<p>Pentax cameras are made by the Asahi Optical Co. The early cameras were labeled "Asahi Pentax". This was later simplified to just "Pentax". The idea that the "Asahi" models are better is just a wives tale. In the case of the K1000, this is probably due to production changes to the camera to take advantage of the latest space age material, aka plastic. The later K1000 had many plastic parts which made it lighter and more rust resistant as well as cheaper for Pentax to make.</p>

<p>Danny Low</p>

 

[simon_hickie1]

<p>How about Nikon N80 / N90 / N90X? Cheap AND good lens compatibility with a future DSLR purchase.</p>

[jcuknz]

<p>The Zenit needs a common battery to run its built in meter and on Amazon just a body new is $77<br>

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Made-35mm-SLR-Camera/dp/B00DZVNILY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1376039315&sr=1-1&keywords=Zenit+35mm+camera">http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Made-35mm-SLR-Camera/dp/B00DZVNILY/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1376039315&sr=1-1&keywords=Zenit+35mm+camera</a><br>

and a standard lens for it is $35<br>

<a href="http://top35mm.com/helios-44-2-2-58mm-russian-lens-pentax">http://top35mm.com/helios-44-2-2-58mm-russian-lens-pentax</a><br>

P&P extra for both of course.<br>

I had a Zenit for awhile when I didn't want to spend up on my usual Pentax.</p>

[jcuknz]

<p>There is one in the UK with no bids for it so far complete with lens<br>

<a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zenit-E-camera-Helios-44-2-Lens-Original-case-USSR-CCCP-/300942400716?pt=UK_Photography_VintageCameras_SM&hash=item4611909ccc#ht_228wt_1026">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zenit-E-camera-Helios-44-2-Lens-Original-case-USSR-CCCP-/300942400716?pt=UK_Photography_VintageCameras_SM&hash=item4611909ccc#ht_228wt_1026</a><br>

This seller is in the States ...Except it doesn't have slow shutter speeds. Now I think I remember it doesn't have slow shutter speeds ever.<br>

<a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zenit-E-Vintage-Camera-/251315550832?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item3a8392fa70#ht_121wt_1026">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zenit-E-Vintage-Camera-/251315550832?pt=US_Vintage_Cameras&hash=item3a8392fa70#ht_121wt_1026</a></p>

 

[StuartMoxham]

<p>Nikon FM2 with a 50mm f1.8. Simple gets the job done is manual only and the meters usually work.</p>

[jason_withers]

<p>So, what camera did you decide to get? The A1? </p>

[phule]

<p>The original posters almost never come back to threads like this. </p>