Isn't Google Street View AWESOME?!

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

Wow! Finally, a couple more posts with artistic insight rather than legalistic cant.

Tim, those were very heartening words. Photo.net is apparently not uniformly ossified with regard to issues of usage and copyright. If it turns out to be so, surely there are sites out there where this kind of work might be welcomed.

Steve, thanks again for weighing in again at just the right time to save the thread from legalistic oblivion. The first one of those linked articles has quite a title:

<h1>"Street View and Beyond: Google’s Influence on Photography"</h1>

<a href="http://lightbox.time.com/2012/10/24/street-view-and-beyond-googles-influence-on-photography/#ixzz2WGXMk9ro">http://lightbox.time.com/2012/10/24/street-view-and-beyond-googles-influence-on-photography/#ixzz2WGXMk9ro</a>

The other is equally fascinating:

<h1>"30 Compelling Photographs Taken By Google Street View"</h1>

<a href="http://sobadsogood.com/2013/05/22/30-compelling-photographs-taken-by-google-street-view/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://sobadsogood.com/2013/05/22/30-compelling-photographs-taken-by-google-street-view/</a>

I am in full agreement with you on how desirable this kind of activity would be: "I'd prefer doing it in person, with my own camera, but every once in a while it's fun to wander down unknown streets on the computer."

It looks like most of the good stuff is going to be near the end of this thread--but at least it is here.

I suppose that I could have avoided some of the above madness if I had done my homework before starting to post on this topic.

In any case, thanks again to both of you, and to Michael Chang and others who had the imagination to see beyond present practice to what is coming over the horizon. It seems clear that Google Street View will continue to make contributions to everything from landscapes to street photography--in the most literal sense.

--Lannie

q.g._de_bakker · June 15, 2013

Landrum, Don't pretend that the comments thus far have only been about "legalistic cant". As mentioned before, several times, the proposal amounts to nothing more than "an exercise aimed at promoting both creative and physical laziness". Stick that in your artistic pipe and smoke it. ;-) From an art point of view, this is no better than running through magazines, walking through galleries and musea, hoping to find an image or two you think has some merit. The images you might find themselves may very well have. But this exercise most certainly doesn't. Finding art that was made by someone else can, by no way of reckoning, be construed as an artistic exercise. But you're not promoting complete laziness (or are you? I'm not really sure that you are not). And then still, skipping a step or two in the creative process by mining what's already out there as raw material for you to 'be artistic with' is a very poor thing to do. It's - from an art(istic) point of view - indeed nothing more than "an exercise aimed at promoting both creative and physical laziness" (must be pointed out once more). You talked about an "educational potential" The lesson you are teaching is to be lazy, not to think, or work, and to believe that messing a bit with the results of other people's efforts is somethign that has merit in itself. It doesn't. It's an abject proposal. Not just from a legalitic point of view. Not just from an art(istic) point of view. But also from an educational point of view. Now when, do you think, will be be able to exclaim "Wow! Finally, a couple more posts did the trick and made Landrum see the folly of his idea!"?

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

As mentioned before, several times, the proposal amounts to nothing more than "an exercise aimed at promoting both creative and physical laziness". Stick that in your artistic pipe and smoke it. ;-)

</blockquote>

That is indeed a separate point, Q.G. Let me give it a thorough BUT FINAL response:

I have acknowledged that such is your position and that I disagree with it. If such shooting were to take the place of other shooting, I could take your position seriously, but promoting such creative exercises is for me a valid undertaking, provided that copyright issues are taken care of. (I have yet to see a definitive statement from Google about that--and thus my "exemplary shot for purposes of discussion" will have to stand for now until I am assured that posting such shots on a regular basis is legal.) The day that I played with my posted shot of an old house in South Carolina, I went outside for some lens and camera tests, and I had three bouts of regular exercise outside. It certainly did not make me into a "couch potato."

As for "promoting. . . creative laziness," it does absolutely nothing of the kind. The Google Street View cameras are mounted on vehicles that shoot every one hundred yards or less (by my estimation), without any apparent regard for what is being shot. From a purely intellectual point of view (ignoring the physical issues, that is), going through such photos is not unlike walking up the street oneself--except that one can cover it faster. I see no intellectual laziness in that, and, if you think that there is, I invite you to try it. I think that you might find that such a creative exercise is both real and has its place as one possible approach among many.

What is NOT creative is not even giving it a try.

As for educational purposes, I can assure you that I have learned a lot myself by using Google Street View in conjunction with Google Satellite pictures (which are linked but different images) about the American Southwest, and thus do I recommend it as an adjunct to traditional geography and even geology lessons. In particular, I have used it in analyzing impressionistic geological data about the area north of the Wichita Mountains in Oklahoma as well as some canyon and mesa country not too far from Las Vegas, New Mexico (not Nevada).

I am glad that I used the Google shots of Walhalla, South Carolina, since one result of doing so has been to open my mind to the richness of the photographic possibilities in a town that I had first passed through many years ago. I had never bothered to stop and shoot there previously.

As for children and young teenagers (or anyone who has never done any orienteering), it could also be a useful adjunct in helping teach to navigate from maps using compass headings--not unlike doing so using Microsoft's Flight Simulator.

You are free to believe what you want. I find Google Satellite maps and Google Street View shots (related but not the same) to be extremely useful and helpful in finding creative possibilities, not just for finding the location of something that one shot months ago, which I how I got into this by trying to find the old house that I shot last fall so that I might find it again if I am ever in that part of the world.

<a href="/photo/17423861&size=md" rel="nofollow">http://www.photo.net/photo/17423861&size=md</a>

This is my "exemplary shot for purposes of discussion" that I mentioned above. I would like to post others, but I want clearance from both Google and Photo.net before I even think about trying that. For the purposes of the forum, using one small photo for purpose of discussion clearly falls under fair use for explicating an intellectual and philosophical position, and I am very comfortable about the legality of doing that. Posting more prior to getting legal issues definitively resolved might legally endanger Photo.net, and so I shall not be doing that, except for possible analytical purposes in threads--but that is a ruling that Photo.net will have to make. Posting Google picture with or without giving attribution to Google as the source would be unethical to me, regardless of the legal issues involved, and regardless of Photo.net policy--and so I shall not ever be doing that.

I posted the <a href="/photo/17423861&size=md">above link</a> in my original post, and I have since re-ordered the photos in my Single Photos folder (my first folder) so that my own shot made with a D90 last October could be compared quickly and easily. I think that the Google Street View shot captured a special mood, one that I might want to TRY to replicate if I ever get another chance to shoot that old house. I now--thanks to Google maps and Google Street View photos--know exactly where the house is located, as I really did not bother to note the day I shot it. ( I was wandering around back streets, and it was generally overcast.)

Thank you for your comments, misguided though I believe them to be. If the legal and/or creative issues come up again, I shall have nothing more to say but shall refer persons back to this post made at this point in time so that I do not have to say the same thing over and over.

Thank you again.

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

From an art point of view, this is no better than running through magazines, walking through galleries and musea, hoping to find an image or two you think has some merit.

</blockquote>

I am certainly not above getting inspiration from others, Q.G. I am astonished that you find getting inspiration from the work of others offensive to any degree.

We all have our dogmas, I suppose, but that is a new one for me. I am still sitting here with mouth agape.

--Lannie

q.g._de_bakker · June 15, 2013

Landrum, Landrum.... Your idea was not to get inspired by the work of others. If only it was. If only that (seeing street view images) would inspire you to get away from the computer and get going creating things of your own. But no. You lazy so and so... ;-) Your big idea was to search the work of others to see what nice things you might find there, collect those, 'clean them up' (very artistic...), and display them in a gallery PNet should start, devoted to this new genre you think you invented. You think it is creative, artistic even, to discover things other people created.... astonishing indeed... Astonishing also, rather sad too, that i have to remind you of that. As astonishing, come to think of it, that you lead the way into a discussion about the legality of it, and then complain about people not embrasing your idea because it (also!) would not be legal. Bottom line, Landrum: it was an ill conceived idea, from whatever angle you want to look at it, that's best forgotten in a hurry.

starshooter · June 15, 2013

I was teaching a class in Beginning Freelance Photography and one student asked me if he could make money taking photographs of images on his TV screen. I told him those images were probably copyrighted and actually owned by somebody. He flunked the course. Anyone who doesn't get the idea that you have to get off your dead duff and go out and make your own images flunks.

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

Landrum, Landrum.... Your idea was not to get inspired by the work of others. If only it was. If only that (seeing street view images) would inspire you to get away from the computer and get going creating things of your own. But no. You lazy so and so... ;-)

</blockquote>

Q.G., Q.G. . . .

You guys just don't get it, do you? Art is not about private property or private claims to greatness. We are part of a community in which we owe a tremendous debt to others, even when we think that what we are creating is uniquely our own.

I am indebted to Fred G. for some reflections upon what might be called a "capitalist concept of art" that leads to a preoccupation with property rights and law. I dare not speak for him, since he can speak better for himself. I wish that he were here to do so. Nor were his remarks ad hominem, but more generally applicable.

Create, guys! Get your inspiration wherever you can.

Q.G., go play with your pretty Hassy artifacts. They are your property. Be content with what you have. Alternatively, share a picture. Now THAT would be radical! Alas, you are no artistic radical. You appear to be the house reactionary--and you think that I am the lazy one. Look in the mirror and start thinking about what you see.

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

<h1>"Street View and Beyond: Google’s Influence on Photography"</h1>

<a href="http://lightbox.time.com/2012/10/24/street-view-and-beyond-googles-influence-on-photography/#ixzz2WGXMk9ro" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://lightbox.time.com/2012/10/24/street-view-and-beyond-googles-influence-on-photography/#ixzz2WGXMk9ro</a>

The other is equally fascinating:

<h1>"30 Compelling Photographs Taken By Google Street View"</h1>

<a href="http://sobadsogood.com/2013/05/22/30-compelling-photographs-taken-by-google-street-view/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://sobadsogood.com/2013/05/22/30-compelling-photographs-taken-by-google-street-view/</a>

Again, thanks to Steve Gubin for these links.

I reproduce them again to rebut Q.G.'s claims. He doesn't see it, and so he infers that it doesn't exist.

Bottom line, Landrum: it was an ill conceived idea, from whatever angle you want to look at it, that's best forgotten in a hurry.

</blockquote>

Turns out not to have been my idea, as you can see just above in the links--lots of people apparently had it before me, Q.G. In any case, whoever first conceived of it, it was a GREAT idea. I am sorry that you cannot see the potential in it: a mindless machine randomly clicks a shutter. Artists--actual thinking human beings--harvest those random clicks, find something beautiful, and share it with the rest of us.

I am inspired by it, but Q.G., but your preoccupation with your Hassy artifacts sucks your soul dry. Get away from those things, or grab one, go out and shoot, and SHARE the image with the larger artistic community here on PN and around the world!

Otherwise, not only is your site history. You are history. Get moving, man! There are images to take and share with others. The clock is ticking. We are not here for very long.

Risk it! DO IT!

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

"PHOTOGRAPHING DEMOCRATICALLY" --William Eggleston

"[T]his technology has been adapted quickly by artists and devoured by the art world. <a href="http://www.dougrickard.com/" target="_blank">Doug Rickard</a> used Google Street View to see the back roads of the nation in a series called A New American Picture, which was featured at New York City’s MoMA last year and is currently on view at <a href="http://yossimilogallery.com/news/doug-rickard/" target="_blank">Yossi Milo Gallery</a>. Geoff Dyer wrote extensively in the<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2012/jul/14/google-street-view-new-photography" target="_blank"> Guardian</a> about Rickard, saying: “Any doubts as to the artistic – rather than ethical or conceptual – merits of this new way of working were definitively settled by Rickard’s pictures. It was William Eggleston who coined the phrase 'photographing democratically' but Rickard has used Google’s indiscriminate omniscience to radically extend this enterprise – technologically, politically and aesthetically.”

Read more: <a href="http://lightbox.time.com/2012/10/24/street-view-and-beyond-googles-influence-on-photography/#ixzz2WIxEgZvj">http://lightbox.time.com/2012/10/24/street-view-and-beyond-googles-influence-on-photography/#ixzz2WIxEgZvj</a></blockquote>

Aw, Q.G., open your eyes, man. Open your eyes!

Open your shutter while you are at it!

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

There's more:

[Doug] Rickard begins by immersing himself into the 360 degree virtual space of Google Street View. He 'drives' through America’s neglected neighborhoods, examining images previously photographed by the automated eye of Google's roof-mounted cameras. Adjusting the views from side to side or up and down, the artist selects scenes of startling and poignant beauty. He then re-photographs the images in his studio as they appear on the computer screen, extracting them from their technological anchor and moving them into a new documentary space.The images Rickard favors have an impressionistic, painterly feel and are largely populated by lone figures whose faces are blurred by Google in their efforts to mask identity.

<a href="http://yossimilogallery.com/news/doug-rickard/">http://yossimilogallery.com/news/doug-rickard/</a>

</blockquote>

--Lannie

q.g._de_bakker · June 15, 2013

Landrum, It's perfectly clear that you are very good at using the internet. And that your internet skills have revealed that there are more people who also think that being lazy is quite o.k. Neither has anything to do with art. "Democratic" as used here is a sharing of the burden - a synonym for "laziness". "Capitalist" is the same: an attempt to make being lazy acceptable by trying to discredit those who know they can actually achieve something themselves, and donlt need to leech from others. "Open your eyes", Landrum. You're just promoting a 21st century, lazy, let's-steal-everything-from-the-internet, bum mentality. Your obsession with something "Hassy", by the way, does your case no good (not that there is anything good to say about your idea). All that does is demonstrate that even you don't know anything good you could say about that great idea of yours. Your last resort? Apparently. Maybe you will listen to Wayne? "Anyone who doesn't get the idea that you have to get off your dead duff and go out and make your own images flunks." You don't get that idea. You flunk. "Bottom line, Landrum: it was an ill conceived idea, from whatever angle you want to look at it, that's best forgotten in a hurry."

GerrySiegel · June 15, 2013

....whose faces are blurred by Google...etc. .....

</blockquote>

A hypothetical. Google comes by and photographs my house for its awesome street view maps. I see the van and decide to make a political privacy statement by "mooning" the van. Does Google software try to expurgate or shop this photo with Google Blur before it goes viral and gets me famous and in the UK Mail? Will a future employer have access to this image against my unkempt lawngrass... do opioid fueled musings sometimes lead places, such as brick walled institutions :-).

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

Q.G., you may be Photo.net's hero, but you will never be mine. I have never had a less productive exchange anywhere.

--Lannie

cyanatic · June 15, 2013

<blockquote>Q.E. de Bakker "...that there are more people who also think that being lazy is quite o.k. Neither has anything to do with art.</blockquote>

<blockquote>Maybe you will listen to Wayne? "Anyone who doesn't get the idea that you have to get off your dead duff and go out and make your own images flunks." You don't get that idea. You flunk.'</blockquote>

Q.E., I don't think there's a simple dividing line at work here. As in, "If x is involved, then it's laziness and it's not art." If someone does nothing other than take images of their tv screen or pull screen grabs off Google street view, then not only are they lazy, they are also most likely unsuccessful in engaging viewers, gallery owners, critics, or collectors. But it is not the case that every instance of such things is devoid of significance or artistry. In the body of work of photographers like Robert Frank, or Lee Friedlander, one finds tv images serving as part an artistic theme or sociological message. Likewise, the work of someone like Doug Rickard who transformed cold, indiscriminate, and mechanical Google images into human moments of interest. He incorporated something which has become an integral part of contemporary life and gave artistic expression to it. (And searching through Google street view to come up with interesting moments is not a simple matter of luck. In some ways, walking out into the street with your own camera will yield more favorable results per hour than perusing Google street view.)

I understand the outrage over what seems to be a growing attitude among some people that everything should be free, and everything should be easy or given. I feel contempt for that attitude and it makes me very angry at times. But I choose not to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater by dismissing out of hand something like finding engaging moments on Google street view. I believe one can look at examples of it that deserve attention and say, "Yes, that is interesting" without that statement becoming an endorsement or an excuse for the type of laziness that you, and I, decry.

I don't know the context in which Mr. Decker flunked his student. Hopefully it was for better cause than the fact that his student asked a foolish and ill-informed question.

As to appropriation in general, it existed long before computers and has been an accepted and valid part of art since before any of us were born. We don't have to like it, but claiming that "it is not art!" seems redolent of the child in the schoolyard who covers their ears when they disagree with something that is said.

Stock-Photos · June 15, 2013

Getting back to the original subject, I found myself on street view, walking to the mail box, a few yards from my house.

<a href="https://maps.google.com/?ll=42.45924,-71.001951&spn=0.003898,0.008256&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.45922,-71.001827&panoid=xPv3FBQSCt-vJVbjQerdhg&cbp=12,90.35,,0,21.35">https://maps.google.com/?ll=42.45924,-71.001951&spn=0.003898,0.008256&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.45922,-71.001827&panoid=xPv3FBQSCt-vJVbjQerdhg&cbp=12,90.35,,0,21.35</a>

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

For what it's worth:

<a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57587067-71/google-street-view-catches-end-of-beautiful-relationship/">http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57587067-71/google-street-view-catches-end-of-beautiful-relationship/</a>

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

Harrington, something like that happened to my mother-in-law. I simply wanted to see her big white brick house in Arlington, Virginia once again, and so from my home in North Carolina I "visited" the house and street: there she was on Google Street View carrying a pail of water to some flowers out near the street.

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

Here is the Wikipedia entry on Google Street View:

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View</a>

Here is an excerpt from that link:

<h2>Artistic uses of images</h2>

<a title="Fine-art photography" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine-art_photography">"Fine-art photographers</a> including <a title="Mishka Henner" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mishka_Henner">Mishka Henner</a>, Nick Mason, Aaron Hobson, Jon Rafman, Doug Rickard, and <a title="Michael Wolf (photographer)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wolf_%28photographer%29">Michael Wolf</a> have selected Google Street View images for use in their own work.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-55">[55]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-56">[56]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-Indrisek-57">[57]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-Smyth-58">[58]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-59">[59]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-Mahoney-60">[60]</a> Although the images may be <a title="Pixelation" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixelation">pixelated</a>, the colours "muddy", and the perspective "warped", the photographs have been published in book form and exhibited in art galleries.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-Indrisek-57">[57]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-Smyth-58">[58]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-guardian_in_pictures-61">[61]</a> Wolf won an honourable mention in Daily Life in the 2011 <a title="World Press Photo" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Press_Photo">World Press Photo</a> competition for some of his work using Google Street View.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-62">[62]</a> Mishka Henner is short-listed for the 2013 <a title="Deutsche Börse Photography Prize" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_B%C3%B6rse_Photography_Prize">Deutsche Börse Photography Prize</a> in November 2012 for his series, 'No Man's Land', which depicts sex workers at rural roadside locations.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-63">[63]</a><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-64">[64]</a> Swedish programmer Anton Wallen developed a game called GeoGuessr, which places players into a Google Street View and has them guess its location.<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View#cite_note-65">[65]"</a>

I did not see anything about whether these persons got permission from Google.

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

Here is yet another link:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/06/14/google_street_view_gets_surreal_captures_people_dressed_as_pigeons_in_japan.html

This is the same picture with better quality:

http://maps.gstatic.com/m/streetview/?hl=ja&ll=35.704029,139.557867&spn=0.002588,0.003519&t=m&z=18&layer=c&cbll=35.704074,139.557732&panoid=gT28ssf0BB2LxZ63JNcL1w&cbp=12,285.39,,0,24.56

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

Google Street View additions:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/14/google-street-view-additions_n_3440371.html?ir=UK+Tech&just_reloaded=1

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

From NBC News:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/38695392/ns/technology_and_science-tech_and_gadgets/t/craziest-google-street-view-moments/

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

Instant Address Lookup for Google Street View:

http://www.instantstreetview.com/

--Lannie

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

StreetViewFun.com:

http://www.streetviewfun.com/

and previous:

http://www.streetviewfun.com/page/2/

--Lannie

cyanatic · June 15, 2013

Q.E.

</blockquote>

Q.G. not Q.E. Sorry about that.

Landrum Kelly · June 15, 2013

http://googlestreetviews.com/

http://www.artfagcity.com/2009/08/12/img-mgmt-the-nine-eyes-of-google-street-view/

--Lannie

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