Mamiya 645 or Pentax 67 portrait lenses for use on 135 with tilt-and-shift

[lazybird]

<p>Hi,<br /><br />I'd like to try long focal lenses from Mamiya 645 or Pentax 67 on digital (Canon with Mirex tilt-shift adapter). I have P67 90mm f2.8 and tried it -- looks good but not very impressive. May be I'm wrong and it's the best -- but I have nothing to compare with. 90mm is a bit short at that. So which lenses should I look for? I see these candidates:<br /><br />P67 120 F3.5 SOFT (don't know, if soft effect can be switched off?)<br />P67 150 F2.8<br />Mamiya 645 150mm F3.5<br />Mamiya 645 150mm F2.8<br />Mamiya 645 110mm F2.8 (not so much difference with 90mm that i have)<br /><br />I'm looking for portrait lens only (I have full set for landscape on P67). Could you give me some advice? What should I buy?<br /><br /> </p>

<p> </p>

[johncox]

<p>The soft focus lens is a specialist tool, it can be replicated in Photoshop or with softar filters, that wouldn't be something I would recommend. Of the lenses you mentioned I would go for the 150 2.8 as it's generally the sharpest and has the most DoF.<br /> That said the pentax 67's 105 2.4 has a real following on flickr and is used allot on pentax 645d's as a go to portrait lens (although it is very close to the 90 2.8 in focal length).<br /> I would recommend using a site like <a href="http://www.gearsearch.info">gearsearch.info</a> to see what images from these lenses look like and go from there. Each lens has a unique rendering and after a while you can tell which lens took which picture.</p>

[lazybird]

<p>John, thanks for the tip on searching.<br>

As to my question -- I had to be more specific and had to tell that the my primary goal is a pleasant bokeh -- I have 70-200 f2.8 and 135 f2, so small depth of field is not what I'm looking for. I've never used tilt with long focal length so I'm going to try using tilt with portrait shots (for some work) -- effect is quite interesting to do it sometimes.<br>

Thanks.</p>

[dougmiles]

<p>Certainly digital is more critical of lens quality, and the outcome is different with different sensors. As a long-time P6x7 user I have most of the lenses, some of which I've used on Leica S2: the 45, later 55, 100 Macro, 135 Macro, 165/2.8, 165/4, and later 200/4. No results processed yet with the 135, and I was not impressed with this use of the 165/4, but the others were excellent with the 100 Macro particularly outstanding. Others have used the 105 on the S2 revealing a lot of aberrations. I have not tried the 75/2.8 aspheric on the S2 but it's simply glorious on the P67.<br>

I do have the 120 Soft... it may or may not be useful to you. The soft effect is different from common techniques like soft filters, nylon stockings, or fuzzing in software, as it's done with the optics of the lens, a modified triplet with 4 elements. The effect is strongest wide open, and comes to near normal sharpness from about f/8. It cannot be switched on or off, and focusing is done at the taking aperture. It has a very nice smooth bokeh at all apertures.<br>

As you say you have a "full set for landscape on P67" then you have some gear for testing. The later 90 without leaf shutter is a decent lens, and I hear the 150 is too but I don't have it. The Mamiya lenses being designed for the 645 format may be smaller and easier to use on a 35mm-size digital.</p>

[ondebanks]

<p>Mamiya 645 150mm F2.8 is the best of the lenses you listed. It is the most recent design (1990s) and the only one to use some low-dispersion glass.</p>

<p>Mamiya 645 110mm F2.8 is very good.<br>

CZJ Biometer 120mm f2.8 is also very good (can adapt it to Mamiya 645, so it can fit your Mirex).<br>

They are pretty much tied, in the 110-120mm range.<br>

But the Mamiya 645 120mm F4 Macro is better again - it is at least in the same league as the 150mm F2.8.</p>

[steve_rasmussen]

<p>A sharp lens for film use does not always translate to sharpness in digital use. Add to this, the use of the lenses in question at high degrees of obliquity (tilt/shift) and you could create more unsharpness. They were not designed for this type of work. The 75mm Shift lens from Pentax may be an option although it may be too short for your use. I'm guessing that the 120 soft lens uses uncorrected spherical aberration for its affect and therefore is gradually reduced by the diaphragm. </p>

[horse bodotes]

<p>I'm not sure exactly you are trying to accomplish. Are you looking for a longer lens w/ higher resolving power? Or are you looking for a lens w/ a larger image circle in order to accomodate tilt and shift?<br>

If the former, I doubt that any MF lens is going to seriously outperform a Canon EL L lens. The absolute resolution on your Canon digital SLR will almost certainly be less using an MF lens.<br>

If you need 90mm tilt and shift, why not simply use a Canon 90mm TS-E lens? The image circle will be more than adequate for almost any use, and the native lens is faster and provides a more shallow depth-of-field (if you want that).</p>

[lazybird]

<p>Thanks for replies.<br>

<br /> I'm looking for lens that will be used mainly for portraits on Mirex tilt-and-shift adapter. I do have Pentax 67's 90mm f2,8 and have tried it for this purpose -- don't like the result much, the bokeh leaves a lot to be desired, edge of the frame is darkened on full tilt (the only lens from all lenses I have, even Mamiya 645's 35mm have bigger image circle and doesn't fade -- as I understand the effect).<br>

<br /> I had TS-E 90mm earlier but replaced it with Mirex and set of P67's lenses: 55mm, 75mm, 90mm and Mamiya 645's 35mm -- this set used to shoot panoramic landscapes most of the time. Sometimes I'm using EF 135mm f2 L and 1.4TC with it -- with no tilt. So I need something from 100 to 150mm range, as I guess.<br>

<br /> At this time I like the bokeh of P67's 105mm f2,4 much more then from 90mm. Will continue to look another samples.<br /> I don't think that I need the most sharp lens -- but I could buy two different as some Mamiya's lenses quite cheap as I see.</p>

<p>I will shoot with lens tilted most of the time.</p>

[mag_miksch]

<p><em>"I would go for the 150 2.8 as it's generally the sharpest and has the most DoF"</em><br>

<em> </em><br>

amazing idea, DoF depends on magnification and f-stop, not brand</p>

[ondebanks]

<blockquote>

<p>amazing idea, DoF depends on magnification and f-stop, not brand</p>

</blockquote>

<p>...which is what John was saying: he picked the 150/2.8 from that list, not for its brand (there were two 150/2.8 lenses listed of different brands, did you notice?), but because of its spec: the 150mm focal length gives the greatest magnification, and the f/2.8 spec gives the joint-largest f-stop.</p>

<p>His only error was to say "most DoF". It seemed clear to me that he meant "least DoF wide open" or "most striking DoF manipulation". I think that would be clear to anyone who has shot medium format with wide open fast lenses.</p>

[lazybird]

<p>I don't know all lens models so I listed only those I found on keh as a starting point. I forgot about P67's 105 f2.4 for example, may be there are other good lenses I should check.</p>

[philip_wilson]

Serge I use a Mirex on my Canons and while I don't use it a lot for portraits I find the 80 F1.9 and 120 macro both work

very well on a Mirex adapter. I have used the 150 but personally find it a big long.