1dx vs 5d mark iii sharpness.

[john_e2]

<p>I purchased a new 1dx and was not impressed with the sharpness. Most shots where soft and when tracking a subject whether fast or slow the shot were mostly blurry or soft. Canon Tech reviewed test shots that I sent them using different lenses and they informed me the problem seemed to be the camera. Canon suggested I send it in for repair or get an exchange from the dealer. I returned the camera to the dealer for an exchange. The dealer informed me they compared my camera to another 1dx they had and there was no difference in sharpness and claimed my camera was working the way it should even though Canon said it wasn't. I asked them to send me a few sample shot form both cameras shot in FAithful with no sharpening so I could compare and let Canon Tech review them and give me their opinion. So far, they haven't done it.<br>

I got tired of waiting to hear back from the dealer, so I bought a 5d Mark III from BEst Buy. My understanding is the 5dMark III is very similar to the 1dx. AFter testing out the 5d Mark III right out of the box with no fine tuning adjustments etc. I immediately noticed a big difference. The pictures were much sharper whether the subject was static or moving. I shot them in Faithful with no sharpening. I tested the 5D III straight out of the box and in Manual mode, Faithfull with no sharpening and no flash. Same conditions as when I tested the 1dx. I have not made any fine tune adjustments at all. <br>

Does the 5D III just produce much sharper shots than the 1dx? The 1dx and the 5Diii seem to be identical as far as AF and the only difference I"ve noticed between them is the 1dx is faster FPS and the 1dx does do a much better job in low light high ISO setting. I'd much rather go with the 1dx for those reasons. Should the 1dx be performing at the same level as the 5dIII as far as sharpness and tracking ability? I can either get a refund or an exchange from the dealer and am trying to figure out what to do. The 5DIII is amazing however, I'd really like the faster FPS of the1dx and the 1dx does a much better job at high ISO. <br>

Thanks </p>

[sarah_fox]

<p>Maybe the camera was front- or back-focusing? I see no way a camera's image cannot be sharp, except for reasons of how an image is focused onto the sensor. I'm assuming you ruled out the obvious sources of user error to confirm the softness:</p>

 

<ul>

<li>tripod, IS off, mirror lockup and/or</li>

<li>fast shutter speed or flash</li>

<li>f/8 or so</li>

</ul>

<p>Did you try focusing manually with liveview at 10x magnification?</p>

<p>I'll also mention that one camera's "faithful" MIGHT not be equivalent to another camera's "faithful." There might be different amounts of sharpening applied. What really matters is the sharpness after you run a RAW image through DPP or your RAW converter of choice, applying whatever sharpening you deem appropriate. FAIW, there is a sharpness difference between Nikons and Canons, as Nikon uses a bit more aggressive a blur for antialiasing. However, once the respective images are re-sharpened, there isn't much difference from a practical standpoint.</p>

[zml]

<p>Test your lens for micro adjustment with 1Dx: the same lens may require different MFA settings on different bodies and the fact that your lens needs zero MFA on a 5D3 doesn't mean that it won't require a different MFA setting on a 1Dx. Also, straight out of camera JPEGS might be different because the "zero" setting might be different on different cameras: say, the processing algorithm with "zero" in-camera sharpening on 1Dx might be in fact less aggressive than on the 5D3.<br>

FWIW, I use 2 1Dx bodies and both are different in terms of MFA even after calibration by Canon, but both bodies provide extraordinarily sharp results when properly MFAd.<br>

Also, 1Dx is a very complex camera that requires a lot of skill so this may be operator error as well.</p>

[matthias_meixner2]

<p>Have you checked the internal sharpening settings? Probably they were different.</p>

[john_e2]

<p>I should have mentioned this in the original post. the first thing I did was check for front or back focus and tried making adjustments. I tried with and with out a tripod, with and without IS etc. I was on the phone with Canon Tech several times while they walked me through micro adjustments etc. they finally told me how to shoot several samples. Canon informed me that the pictures should be sharp in the Faithful mode at 0,0,0,0. Before I purchased this camera I read this review: http://www.andyrouse.co.uk/blog/223.php He states that the pictures were taken in the Faithful mode with no sharpening and stated that he didn't add any sharpening and as you can see the pics are tack sharp. I do not have his lens, but there should not be that much difference in sharpness. I tested the Camera out with expensive Canon lenses not cheap knock offs or anything. I took the camera to a friend of mine whose been a professional Photorapher and a Canon Shooter for more than 20 years. We tried all of his expensive L lenses , 50mm 1.2, 85mm 1.2, two brand new 70-200 2.8 IS II USM's, 24-70mm 2.8 IS USM. we shot still and moving subjects. AFter reviewing the sample pics Canon informed me that the lenses were not the problem it was the camera. Canon stated that the camera wasn't performing up to what it should. No amount of sharpening in post would make these pics sharp especially when tracking was used. the 5dmark III on the other hand worked perfectly , pics are sharp in Faithful 0.0.0.0 and all the differnt tracking cases work they way they should. the AF and tRacking seems to me to be idendical to the 1dx. Don't know why the 1dx would not work as well. Since, Canon admitted the 1dx that I had wasn't working right i"m surprised that the Dealer claimed it was working just fine after comparing to another one they had at the store. I'm also curious as to why the dealer won't send me any sample pics they supposedly took. I Asked them to send them to me so I could review them and have Canon review them. Canon has all of the pics I sent on file and could compare to see what's going on. the dealer has offered a replacement camera or my money back but so far it's a no go on sending me sample pics.</p>

[keith reeder]

<p>Can you post an example - with Exif - of the problem 1Dx images, please?</p>

[dan_south]

<blockquote>

<p>Most shots where soft and when tracking a subject whether fast or slow the shot were mostly blurry or soft.<br>

</p>

</blockquote>

<p>What ISO and shutter speed were you shooting? If objects are moving, you might need a minimum shutter speed of 1/500s to 1/1000s to freeze the movement.<br>

<br>

What AF options are you using?<br>

<br>

What software are you using to evaluate sharpness? I recommend Digital Photo Professional for this type of test to avoid processing compatibility issues.<br>

<br>

My suggestion would be to test the camera with stationary objects and get that working first before trying to evaluate. Tripod mounted camera. IS off. Subject with sufficient contrast (e.g. stripes or edges). Mirror lockup. Cable release or 2-second self timer. f/5.6 or faster (f/4, f/2.8). Try with and without Live View enabled. Also try manual focus in Live View with the image magnified 10x.<br>

<br>

The answer to your question is no, the 5DIII will not give you a major sharpness upgrade over the 1DX. A little bit of resolution, yes, but both cameras will produce very sharp images.<br>

</p>

[zml]

If nothing in the picture is critically sharp

regardless of the lens used, then obviously

your camera is shot. If the plane of critical

sharpness is not where you intended it to be,

then the camera/lens combo requires

adjustments and/or either the body of the

lens are broke. The key question is whether

anything in picture is critically sharp...

[john_e2]

<p>Dan: We tried all of your suggestions. with no luck.<br>

Michael: The test shots that I sent to Canon did not show any area of critical sharpness.<br>

Here's a sample of a shot I took with the data information. this one was really disappointing since it looked sharp in the LCD and and she stood perfectly still while I took the shot. was you can see the speed was 1/1000</p><div></div>

[Marcus Ian]

<blockquote>

<p>The dealer informed me they compared my camera to another 1dx they had and there was no difference in sharpness and claimed my camera was working the way it should even though Canon said it wasn't.</p>

</blockquote>

 

<blockquote>

<p>... i"m surprised that the Dealer claimed it was working just fine after comparing to another one they had at the store. I'm also curious as to why the dealer won't send me any sample pics they supposedly took.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>To me, it sounds as if the dealer was blowing smoke up your... ahem. Maybe they just don't want to have to deal w/ a $7000 exchange/return/refund/RMA... IDK, but it sounds like you got both a bad unit, <em>and</em> a bad dealer... Who is it? if you don't mind me asking... Though if they got you to buy a 5Dmk3<em> too</em> from them with their weaseling ways, you can certainly see their interests at work... meanwhile they are chuckling about how there's one born every minute... ;)</p>

[john_e2]

<p>Here's a shot I took with the 5d III I realize I shot it at f8 not 2.8 so it's not an equal comparison, however, it shows that the focus is where I've placed the square and it seems much sharper, more consitant and the tracking does a fantastic job as apposed to the 1dx. </p><div></div>

[john_e2]

<p>marcus. I purchased the 5dmarkIII from my local Best Buy to try it out. I have 30 days to return if I decide to try another 1dx. The dealer offered me an exchange or a refund so I'm at a loss as to why they won't send the pics.</p>

[sarah_fox]

<blockquote>

<p>Here's a shot I took with the 5d III I realize I shot it at f8 not 2.8 so it's not an equal comparison, however, it shows that the focus is where I've placed the square and it seems much sharper, more consitant and the tracking does a fantastic job as apposed to the 1dx.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>While the first image does look soft, you are absolutely correct that it's not a fair comparison. Do you have any test images from the 1DX taken with the same settings, most notably with the lens at the same focal length and at f/8? For all we know, there's something wrong with your lens that it's too soft at f/2.8.</p>

<p>FAIW, on the first photo, the hairs somewhat in front of the little girl's nose are more distinct than her eyelashes (which are heavier hairs). This suggests to me that your rig was front-focusing. You say you tested for front/back focus issues. Can you post one of those test images?</p>

[dan_south]

<blockquote>

<p>Dan: We tried all of your suggestions. with no luck.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> You tried manual focus in Live View from a tripod with IS disabled, and the images came out blurry? If that's the case, then autofocus is not the issue. Perhaps the sensor is bad.</p>

<p>Instead of something three dimensional (like the human head), why not try something two-dimensional for your focus testing (like a sign with small print might be better). Both of the photos tested have vast areas that are out of focus. It's very difficult to judge sharpness from these examples.<br>

For example, in the first photo, it looked as though the girl's lower lip was in focus. Everything behind that plane was blurry.</p>

[Marcus Ian]

<blockquote>

<p>The dealer offered me an exchange or a refund so I'm at a loss as to why they won't send the pics.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>LOL It doesn't make sense to me either, but at least you didn't buy the mk3 from the same folks... (my bad, I missed that in your post)<br>

There is no doubt that the first pic is NOT critically sharp, but the cause is unclear. Some of the hair strands <em>approach</em> critical sharpness (<em>my</em> 'critical' means single pixel definition), but I'd have to agree w/ Dan that people's faces are a terrible subject to use for assessing sharpness overall. An angled focus chart is the 'subject'<em> I'd</em> use, and <em>should</em> give you <em>something</em> critically sharp, but <em>if</em> you cannot find <em>anything</em> critically sharp, even when doing the 10x, MF, LV, on a tripod then there is clearly something wrong w/ the camera, theoretically, an out of kilter AA filter, or OOW CMOS are about the only things I can think of off the top of my head... If it's just the AF that's giving you a FF/BF image, there's an easy fix, but to be honest, your picture demonstrates a <em>LOT</em> of FF/BF for a camera that's new.... and then, it would vary by lens, which, through your testing it doesn't significantly... I'd probably simply send it back to Canon and let them monkey with it...</p>

<p>As far as the dealer's assurance that your images are akin to what other 1dx's give you... I've got to admit, that sounds like horse hockey, I've seen plenty of full res, <em>critically sharp</em> images from 1dxs (Not mine, I don't own a 1Dx). I (of course) could be wrong, but I think they just <em>told</em> you that, without actually doing it... I mean They'd have to open up a new 1Dx, mount a lens and take pictures with it to compare, and that would mean it's no longer is 'new', now it is a 'floor model', or 'showroom display' right?, not to mention, that kind of testing falls waaay outside their pervue, and presumably, their capability... </p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

The dealer is dodging their responsibility.Are you talking to a salesman, a sales manager, or the store's owner? If it isn't

the latter you are talking to the wrong person.

[dcstep]

<p>Somebody's been messing with the AF Microadjustment on that camera. It's right there in the EXIF data. In the first picture it's set at +5 and in the other it's set at -5.</p>

[model mayhem gallery]

<p>Can you manually focus the camera and get a sharp shot is is it just autofocus giving you an issue?<br>

Also, I thought faithful only works when shooting JPEG is this feature even used when camera is shoting in RAW?</p>

[john_e2]

<p>The dealer gave me a refund and I purchased a new 1dx from a different USA Dealer.<br>

the new 1dx is absolutely amazing. no problem with focus. pictures are sharp right out the box.<br>

Tested all differnt AF Cases tracking, single shot, multiple, servo mode etc. everything works fantastically. the focusing system on this camera is very easy to use. not sure why some folks have complained that it's difficult to learn.<br>

The pics are sharp in faithful with no sharpening. This camera is much better then the Mark III which I'll be returning to Best buy. If you're not blown away by the 1dx there could be something wrong with it like I found out.</p>