What Flash's with power pack for outdoor use as well as studio?

[tammy_mckindle]

<p>Hi, I currently have the Bowens 500 classic twin head kit, I bought this for use in both outdoor and studio but looking at it now I think I need something lighter and posibly weather sealent? I don't have alot of money after the sale of my kit (only been used 6 times) I am not sure how much I should sell that for - any ideas?<br>

<br /><br />The <a id="irc_itl" href="http://www.lovegroveconsulting.com/elinchrom_ranger_quadra_heads.aspx" data-ved="0CAMQjhw">Elinchrom</a> range are the ones I would love to go for but like I say, my budget is limited :(, I heard someone mention they used their calumet genius battery pack to power one of these? I'm not sure how true that is. I hope to use the light/lights for studio and outdoor purposes such as weddings (with one light). The other option was speedlights.<br /><br />Your advice is much appreciated.</p>

<p>regards</p>

<p>Tammy</p>

[model mayhem gallery]

<p><a href="http://www.elinchrom.com/product/Quadra-Hybrid-RX.html#content">http://www.elinchrom.com/product/Quadra-Hybrid-RX.html#content</a><br>

Elinchrome Quadra hard to beat if you need head and pack.</p>

<p>I never take a head and pack outdoors as I hate wires. I use Alien Bee's Einstiens with a vagabon and wireless triggers which rach 500+ feet and can trigger multiple strobes a long distance from me and no central pack to run wires to. Light quality is equl, If I need more power I add a WhiteLightning X1600 and an additional vagabon which I velcro to the lightstands.</p>

 

[wally_kilburg1]

<p>So the "wire" from the vagabond to the Einstein is different from a Quadra head and wire to a pack, how? The Quadra has a built in wireless receiver too - the Einstein has to have it added. <br>

An Einstein and vagabond is a great light source but i fail to see how it is less wire oriented than a Quadra system or Profoto 600R system. </p>

[tammy_mckindle]

<p>It's between the Alien Bee's and Speedlites as funds are an issue. What Softboxes would work with the Alien Bee's? There on makes are pretty expensive...I own a complete kit with the Bowens 500 Classic at the moment which I am looking at selling for £600 - is this to low? I need it for studio use but on location (possibly one light most the time) for weddings.<br /><br />I have a headache now :(...</p>

[rob_h5]

<blockquote>

<p>I hope to use the light/lights for studio and outdoor purposes such as weddings (with one light).<br /> I own a complete kit with the Bowens 500 Classic at the moment...</p>

<p> </p>

</blockquote>

<p><strong>I would stay with what you have! Bowens makes one the best portable monolights and pack and head systems in the market.</strong><br /> I currently shoot outdoors and in the studio all the time with the Bowens Explorer 1500 ( which is a portable pack and head system) which is capable of powering 4 studio lights (3000 w/s total) without any mains connection. I use two quad lights which each is capable of 1500 w/s of power by itself on the Explorer and it easily can power two extra Bowens monolights up to 1500w/s monolights with a DC cable. I have never had any problems with the <strong>Bowens pack and head, its built like a tank and gives crisp light on every shoot.</strong> There are also a ton of high quality Bowens light modifiers available including ringflashes, beauty dishes, huge refelctors..ect. With a new speedring adapter from Elinchrom that just came out last year, you can even use Elinchroms Rotalux light modifiers on Bowens studio lights.<br /> <a href="http://bowensdirect.com/">http://bowensdirect.com/</a></p>

<p>Are these the Bowens monolights you have now? <br /> Bowens Gemini 500 Pro<br /> <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/656923-REG/Bowens_BW_3925US_Gemini_500_Pro_Monolight.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/656923-REG/Bowens_BW_3925US_Gemini_500_Pro_Monolight.html</a></p>

<p>If so, its AC/DC and will work perfectly with the Bowens Explorer 1500 or Bowens Travelpak battery with the interchangable battery which I have also used. The Bowens Travelpak is really built solid and weather proof. Although there isnt really such thing as a " 100% weather sealant" studio light ....the Bowens Travelpak is actually weather sealant I think it can even handle a puddle of water now and then. I would stay with Bowens than Alienbees, Alienbees are made with a cheap plastic that can easily break, Bowens lights are built with metal housing and really solid and can last a lifetime. Plus if you are in England you have lots of customer support and lots of rental options for Bowens at Calumet.<br /> Bowens Travelpak<br /> <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/615770-REG/Bowens_BW_7693_Small_Travelpak_for_Gemini.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/615770-REG/Bowens_BW_7693_Small_Travelpak_for_Gemini.html</a><br /> <br /><br /> Remember here are some things to consider with portable pack and head systems depending on your budget and lighting style:<br /> Maximum and minimum watts needed<br /> Flash duration- this will depend on your lighting needs.<br /> Model lamp (this is often not a big deal unless you are doing photo shoots at night) even then you really do not want to use it since its a major drain on your battery)<br /> Recycle time (the minimum you need) Number of outlets needed for more studio strobe light heads<br /> Battery life and flash power per full charge - (this will depend on your usage whether you use it at max power or minimum power or somewhere inbetween.)<br /> Optical slave/radio - I recommend using radios if you are shooting in the daylight outdoors. Some pack and head sytems have a slave or radio built in or BOTH (Dynalite, Bowens, Profoto...all use both radio/optical slave) Recycle beep- often overlooked, this helps a lot because you might be far away from your pack to tell if its recycled<br /> Professional pack and head portable battery studio light generator systems<br /> Profoto<br /> Hensel<br /> Speedotron<br /> Broncolor<br /> Dynalite (has a new battery inverter that just came out)<br /> Bowens/Calumet<br /> Elinchrom<br /> More info comparing different pack and head sytems <a href="http://www.timothyarmes.com/blog/2009/05/choosing-a-battery-pack-flash-system/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.timothyarmes.com/blog/2009/05/choosing-a-battery-pack-flash-system/</a></p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p>So the "wire" from the vagabond to the Einstein is different from a Quadra head and wire to a pack, how?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I agree with Wally, any light can be operated with wireless radio.</p>

[devon_mccarroll]

I don't find Buff's softboxes (for Alien Bees, etc.) to be expensive at all compared to other quality brands, and their folding softboxes are

wonderful! Super easy to set up. So if you go with Bees, I'd highly consider their softboxes. If you go with another brand, like Photoflex

(which I also have), then you just need to make sure that they have a speedring available that will fit your lights.

[ken_yee]

<p>Don't forget weight...not sure what Tammy wants to haul around on location, but typical battery powered pack/head systems are fairly heavy (except the Quadra which I think is underpowered i you want to use it w/ any modifiers or in midday sun). A reasonable weight compromise might be Hensel's Porty Pack or Elinchrom's Ranger if you want to stick w/ pack/head.<br>

The PCB foldable softboxes are *not* expensive. Price out the other brands (Profoto, Photoflex, Westcott, Elinchrom) if you think they are. And they're easier to put up and take down than most others. And a VML w/ an AB1600 is fairly light for a location setup (though it'd be better w/ an Einstein). Cost is unfortunately higher in the UK where Tammy is because there's an additional layer of distribitorship :-(</p>

 

[rob_h5]

<blockquote>

<p>Don't forget weight...not sure what Tammy wants to haul around on location, but typical battery powered pack/head systems are fairly heavy<br>

Cost is unfortunately higher in the UK where Tammy is...</p>

<p>Plus if you are in England you have lots of customer support and lots of rental options for Bowens at Calumet.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Great point Ken! I totally forgot about weight issues when choosing portable pack and head systems. For guys it seems we always forget about about weight (sandbags/cases/battery packs...ect) , and maybe that is why male photographers get back aches at the end of the day! lol. :P The Bowens Explorer 1500ws is a heavy 11.2kg. (apx 25 lbs). The Hensel Porty or Elinchrom Ranger are more reasonable weight wise. Although guys may not mind weight issues too much...I am sure most gals do NOT want to carry heavy gear (without assistants of course). I always use a dolly for my gear when possible to go easy on the back. :D</p>

<p>As for light modifers, since the OP lives out in England she can always <strong>rent</strong> Bowens light modifiers at UK Calumet, they have a great selection of Bowens rental items including the Bowens Travelpak battery, beauty dish, reflectors...ect.<br>

UK Calumet Rental catalog<br>

<a href="http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/services/rental.cfm">http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/services/rental.cfm</a></p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>I own the Bees but I don't take the outdoors if there is the slightest hint of rain or moisture. The reason is the Bees have vents on the top and the sides of the unit which could easily draw in moisture and cause havoc on the components inside. Of course since I have never experienced this, Im only speculating. The Geminis on the other hand are fully closed and they are made of metal, although moisture and electrical equipment is never a good thing...</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>**DUPLICATE**</p>

[hjoseph7]

<p>I own the Bees but I don't take the outdoors if there is the slightest hint of rain or moisture. The reason is the Bees have vents on the top and the sides of the unit which could easily draw in moisture and cause havoc on the components inside. Of course since I have never experienced this, Im only speculating. The Geminis on the other hand are fully closed and they are made of metal, although moisture and electrical equipment is never a good thing...</p>

[tammy_mckindle]

<p>Hi, thank you for the replies, I think I have come to a decision that I will keep the Bowen's kit and invest in some Speedlites - recommendation for these speedlites? Canons, Nikons? I have a 430EX at the moment and I did notice it lacked power so new one is needed.<br>

<br />Also I am looking at exchanging my Bowens Classic 500w heads for some 400W heads, they are the new ones - Black and been used 6 times. I'd want £150 cash my way also. Only reason for this is on moving about in peoples homes it's easier to sacrifice 100w and have lighter kit to work with. Do people think this is a good idea or not?</p>

<p>Thanks again</p>

<p>Tammy</p>

[fotografz]

<p>Tammy, your original question was <strong>"What to get for outdoor and studio".</strong></p>

<p>In both cases speed-lights are a poor second choice compared to almost any strobe kit.</p>

<p>Outdoors they are to weak to control bright backgrounds or to overpower the sun. Even if you packed 4 speed-lights into a modifier they could still fall short. In effect, the lights used then dictate when and where you can effectively shoot, which trust me is not desirable.</p>

<p>In studio, speed-light are violently allergic to rapid shooting (like with dance, fashion, kinetic kids or nervous pets). Rapid use @ full power will trip their thermal circuit protection and shut down the speed-light ... often for 15 minutes. Strobes can go all day long.</p>

<p>If transport is the main concern with using strobes then solve that problem rather than diluting the lighting solution.</p>

[rob_h5]

<blockquote>

<p>I think I have come to a decision that I will keep the Bowen's kit<br /> Only reason for this is on moving about in peoples homes it's easier to sacrifice 100w and have lighter kit to work with. Do people think this is a good idea or not?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Like I said before you are fine with the studio lights you have, you have 2 Bowens 500ws studio lights so already you have 1000ws combined of power. Weight wise the difference between the Bowens 500 and 400 is only 1.7 lbs. Also the Bowens 500 Pro monolight has triple the flash duration @ t=0.5 1/2900 Sec.</p>

<p>And Marc makes great points, you want only studio strobe lights if you plan on shooting in the studio AND in full sun outdoors. And a 1000ws is what you have right now so thats a good start. The only issue really here is transport. <strong>Are you using the dolly and cases that came with the Bowens kit?</strong></p>

<p>Bowens trolly<br /> <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/615777-REG/Bowens_BW_1068_B_Large_Trolley_Case.html">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/615777-REG/Bowens_BW_1068_B_Large_Trolley_Case.html</a></p>

[tammy_mckindle]

<p>I have the trolly that comes with the kit yes, I never said I would use speedlites in a studio environment, hence keeping the Bowen's kit. I'm talking about weddings and lighting that my assistant would direct - the Bowen's are to big for this.</p>

<p>I don't have a good budget unless I sell the Bowen's kit and even then I'd struggle to get 2 strobes for studio use and outdoor use (with a battery), it's to pricey with the battery. </p>

<p>thanks for your respones</p>

[rob_h5]

<blockquote>

<p>I'm talking about weddings and lighting that my assistant would direct...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>In your case I would rent a speedlight and keep the Bowens kit. I dont know if you read my previous post but professional photographers rent quite a bit. If you are in the UK there are Calumet stores / rental all over the UK that rents really hard to find Bowens gear (Bowens fresnel for example) which is not even available in the USA among other items including the <strong>Bowens Travelpak Battery</strong>.</p>

[model mayhem gallery]

<blockquote>

<p>"So the "wire" from the vagabond to the Einstein is different from a Quadra head and wire to a pack, how?"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>There is no cable for mono lights just a power plug. You can use a sync cable however, most use a wireless transmitter from camera directly to strobe. Pocket wizzard or Alien Bee's trigger can reach up to 1600 Feet away (wirelessly).<br /> The power plug goes directly into the Vagabon battery which are very small about half the size of a laptop. I have one for each of my strobes which are all either AB800's or White Lightning X1600.<br>

<br /> For accessories Aliens Bees are compatiable with Balcar and Flashpoint speed rings. I use Photoflex and Westcot softboxes.<br /> Personally, I prefer monolights over head and pack kits because I have full control over exactly how much power each ligh is set to and i can control this power wirelessly as well.<br>

<br /> I've had to many times where I tried to use traditional head and pack in a hotel convention rooms or homse and the packs kept popping the circuit breakers. Also, it was dangerour to have the cables running to the strobes when shooting kids, had to mask them with colored tape. Too much of a headache for the type of fast moving travel photographty I do.<br /> Also, each light can work independant of any pack so all of my strobes are usable even at different locations. In terms of light quality I can't tell any difference in one light at 5600K and another. If so I just use custom white balance on camera and like magic it is white again or blue or yellow if I choose.<br>

OOOps<br>

Are Bowens also Monolights? If so Vagabon I or II may still work with them. I thought these were the old fashioned head and pack type heads. All you would need is wireless triggers and a battery. I like the vagabon II because they are very light but if you need more powere a used Vagabon I is heavier but will last longer if popping strobes at full power.</p>

[ely_lenik]

<p>Most lights are either AC or DC and only a few do both.Here are some options that you could go with for in studio or outside.<br>

<br />Bowens: Their monolight heads have the optional travelpak battery which is fairly small and lightweight. Good feature about the battery is that you can charge the cartridges separately from the battery power pack.</p>

<p>Hensel (my personal favorite): Two options here: They make the Visit mpg 1500 which is a battery inverter (like the profoto batpac or the alienbees vagabond) that can power up to 2 lights 1000 joules each, another good feature about the Visit is that the battery cartridges are fairly small and you can take them out and put another in (the profoto batpac doesn't have replaceable cartridges, once it's out of juice your shoot is over). Or you can go with the Hensel porty 1200 which is an awesome pack and they make an ac inverter adapter that takes the place of the battery.<br>

<br />Broncolor: Also two options but can get expensive. They also make a small 1 head battery inverter called the powerbox 900. Or you can get the Verso pack which is an AC pack that has an optional battery (as opposed to battery packs that have an AC adapter).</p>

<p>Profoto : Most popular is that Batpac which is another battery inverter or another option (pretty expensive though) you could get a Pro B3 (or Pro B2) battery pack with the AC mains dock which would give you AC power to the battery pack. They also have the new B4 pack out which is amazing on all levels, but I'm not sure if it works with the dock.</p>

<p> </p>

[studio460]

<p>Tammy, I don't know what you finally decided, but if I were you, I would keep the Bowens 500s, and buy a Bowens Small Travelpac for $529. Also, personally, I wouldn't trade your 500s for 400s--more Watt-seconds is generally better. But if the weight savings are significant (are they?), that's your call. Nevertheless, by simply adding the Travelpac to your existing strobes, you'd have a pretty slick mobile set-up.</p>

[studio460]

<p>Tammy said:</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>I don't have a good budget unless I sell the Bowen's kit and even then I'd struggle to get 2 strobes for studio use and outdoor use (with a battery), it's to pricey with the battery.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Well, moderately priced gear just tends to be heavy (which appears to be your main concern). You have a perfectly good kit already. Lighter kits (e.g., Quadras) are simply out of your price range. I'd like to own Quadras too, but I settled for two 400Ws Dynalites (3.6 lbs. each), and a Dynalite XP-1100 inverter (about 3 million lbs.) instead. Like I said, add the Travelpac, and you have an <em>excellent</em> mobile set-up.</p>

[fotografz]

<p>Tammy, a few thoughts for consideration:</p>

<p>For weddings, and most on the fly portraits, you do NOT need two mono head strobes. One mono-head for key directional lighting is enough when used in concert with an on-camera TTL speed-light for fill. It'd be ideal if you had 1,000+ W/s to work with to help overpower the sun, but that gets expensive and heavier ... neither of which you want. So try to plan on avoiding such conditions when possible. </p>

<p>Transporting one mono-head and a battery is a lot easier than two, and is also easier to manage. Provide your assistant with a good mobile painter's pole and do not get to big with the modifier, and it can be easier to get the light where you want it quite fast. A small roller bag is usually enough to carry it all. </p>

<p>Use of one key light and a speed-light fill takes a little practice, but is easy to learn. There are a few tricks you can use ... like placing the key light on the side where the men in black tuxes are and then feathering the light toward the ladies if they are dresses in lighter clothes. Etc. Etc. Etc..</p>

<p>As to battery power, take care ... not all portable inverters are compatible with all mono-heads ... and even when they do work, not all specifications like recycle time are equal or desirable. Paul C Buff's Vagabond Mini Lithium is a very small battery option, but is NOT guaranteed to work with any other light other than theirs. However, they will work with select models of mono heads, but not all ... and do so at your own risk. </p>

<p>I usually use a battery powered pack for mobile work (Quadra's are smallest; Profoto Acute B Lithium AIR, a bit bigger but more powerful; and for most power a Hensel Porty 1200 L) ... all preferred over monos because they have much smaller heads, and are easier to use on a painter's pole, or are less top heavy on a stand compared to mono-heads used on location or mobile. However, on occasion I have need of even more lighting and will use a Profoto D1 mono-head with either a PCB Vagabond Lithium Mini or a Profoto BatPac ... the BatPac being preferable for some applications because the recycle ranges from 0.95 to 0.2 seconds for 600 shots maximum, where the PCB Vagabond is much smaller/more portable, but struggles to keep up with the other lighting in use.</p>

<p>-Marc</p>

<p> </p>

[tammy_mckindle]

<p>Sorry for the slow response, swapping internet providers meant a blip in internet!<br /><br />Thanks for the advice, I'm still pondering at what is best, would taking a 400W Bowens and a travel pak be of any use do you think? maybe protecting it with a waterproof poncho for those moments of unexpected downpour? I thought the 400w Bowens as it is smaller in size and lighter. It's would give me the power I need and be able to use it nicely in a studio set up.</p>

<p>Was thinking 4 speedlites and a Octagon umbrella box but that road still seems unstable to me.<br>

thanks guys!</p>

[tammy_mckindle]

<p>Ok I've got an idea! Sell one of the Bowens 500 Classic heads and get the Godox 400w portable outdoor kit with battery (or something similar) I'm sure I can still use this in studio environment alone with my remaining Bowens head. With the Godox being a Bowen fit too I can use my light modifiers with it.<br /><br />Hows that sound for a plan?</p>

[rob_h5]

<blockquote>

<p>With the Godox being a Bowen fit too I can use my light modifiers with it.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Tammy thats not a bad plan since you will mainly use it for weddings, so keep one AC/DC Bowens 500 w/s <strong>monolight and another light portable flash /flashgun</strong>.</p>

<p>Instead of the Godox though, how about just a lightweight Canon or Nikon speedlight with Bowens S mount adapter bracket? Also, as everyone suggests, go with the Bowens Travelpack battery which requires a specific Bowens <a href="http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/images/bowens8mpowercable.jpg">Travelpak battery cable</a> that wont work with the Godox battery pack.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/bowens_s_type_speedlight_adapter/mf6718">http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/bowens_s_type_speedlight_adapter/mf6718</a></p>

[tammy_mckindle]

<p>The speedlights are a good plan but I'd need 4 of them to get the same power as the Godox - the Godox comes with a battery pack.</p>