My reasons to hate my 7D

hakhtar · December 7, 2012

William, believe you me I have almost memorised most 7D functions, and I have used many possible methods practised in the past many years to learn about the 7D - I'm full of knowledge (sorry I have no liking for riddles, though) - please tell me what exactly is left to learn about this camera - hope it is not rocket science!

William Michael · December 7, 2012

“I have almost memorised most 7D functions, and I have used many possible methods practised in the past many years to learn about the 7D - I'm full of knowledge . . . please tell me what exactly is left to learn about this camera.”

</blockquote>

After due consideration of these statements and in accord with your request for no ‘riddles’- (whatever those ‘riddles’ might have been): my best, most concise and most professional (teacher) answer is that there are merely two options:

Learn no more.

Because it appears there is nothing remaining to be learnt about the 7D, for you.

Begin learning the 7D, again, from the beginning.

As only ONE example only of HOW TO begin the learning again:

One would scrutinize and then explain in DETAIL why one uses THAT finger over the Shutter Release. And then one would consider all other choices. And then one would list the advantages and disadvantages of all those choices. And then one would choose WHAT finger to use and WHEN to use it and have DETAILED REASONS for each choice.

And . . . etc . . . for each an every present use; and habit; and technique; and method; and situation; and . . . etc . . .

WW

hakhtar · December 8, 2012

William, I know what you are asking - press the shutter using the flat part of the finger almost horizontal at the time of

releasing the shutter to reduce camera shake and releasing the shutter gently rather than jabbing. I know this! What else

do I do next?

William Michael · December 8, 2012

"I know what you are asking - press the shutter using the flat part of the finger almost horizontal at the time of releasing the shutter to reduce camera shake and releasing the shutter gently rather than jabbing."

</blockquote>

From your response, it occurs to me that you have absolutely no idea what I am talking about.

I was NOT suggesting, NOR was I asking you to do that.

+++

I know this!

</blockquote>

I am glad for you, that you know about not jabbing the shutter release.

+++

What else do I do next?

</blockquote>

I can only repeat what I have written.

For your convenience I shall re-write most of it, yet in another way:

I have considered everything that you have written on this thread, especially all which you have specifically directed to me.

I note that there are some points made by you which are either irrelevant to this thread and/or erroneous points. For example:

I have disappointed you;

I am shunting around the learning of the 7D and its ‘issues’;

I draw conclusions by people’s names;

there are ‘iffy’ messages on this thread;

I am making a big academic case about the first finger;

I make erratic conclusions;

I believe the 7D has serious problems.

These above assertions of yours, I shall disregard: and will not discuss further.

***

However and more importantly and ON TOPIC you have stated:

<ul>

<li>That you have almost memorised most 7D functions</li>

<li>That you have used many possible methods [of the 7D]</li>

<li>That you have [practiced] in the past many years to learn about the 7D</li>

<li>That you are full of knowledge [about the 7D]</li>

<li>That you have no liking for riddles</li>

<li>That you have asked me to please tell you what exactly is left to learn about this camera.</li>

</ul>

Accordingly to answer these on topic questions from you -

<ul>

<li>My best, most concise and most professional (teacher) answer is: there are merely two options for you.</li>

<li>Option 1 is that you learn no more about the 7D. Because it appears there is nothing remaining to be learnt about the 7D, for you.</li>

<li>Option 2 is that you learn about the 7D, again, from the beginning.</li>

</ul>

If you choose OPTION 2, then I shall give you only one EXAMPLE of HOW you could begin do OPTION 2.

I will give you a starting point.

I will give you the instructions, in point form, to begin the exercise:

First - answer this one simple question:

When you hold you 7D in your hand at the ‘ready position’ – WHAT FINGER is placed over the SHUTTER RELEASE BUTTON?

(you should write this answer down)

Second – scrutinize and then explain in DETAIL why you use THAT finger and not any of the other fingers which you have.

(you should write this answer down on paper - it can be point form or an essay)

Third – now consider ALL the other choices you have.

(You must investigate ALL the options no matter how silly they may appear on first glance)

Forth - list the advantages and disadvantages of ALL those choices.

(you must write down all of these and attribute them to each option)

Fifth - Now choose WHAT finger to use and WHEN to use it.

(you are now choosing a portion of what technique to use and in what circumstances to use it)

Sixth – now give DETAILED REASONS for each choice.

You now explain the 'why' -again this can be point form or an essay)

Then once that exercise is complete, you must do the same for every present use you have of the 7D.

Then do the same for every habit you have with the 7D.

Then do the same for every technique you have with the 7D.

Then do the same for every type of shooting scenario you have had with the 7D.

Then do the same for every feature you use of the 7D.

Then do the same for every feature you do NOT use of the 7D.

And etc . . .

***

I have racked my mind and I truly CANNOT make any other answer to your questions.

Neither can I find the words to explain the steps in any more a simple framework than the EXAMPLE of the steps I have provided above.

If I have failed in conveying the explanation of the ONLY two options I believe that are open to you for you to learn more about your 7D camera and to add to the considerable knowledge level you state you have about the 7D, then I am truly sorry.

If you do not understand this detailed post of mine: I have no other means to explain it to you.

If I have failed to answer your questons to your satisfaction: then you must seek advice and answers, elsewhere.

WW

Nick D. · December 8, 2012

Guys, just go out and take some pictures, this discussion become philosophical.

My two cents:

Do not use full auto autofocus mode, camera do not know, what is your subject. Put focus point on subject manually. In continuos auto select initial focus point, camera will take it from there, assist points are optional. In post-processing apply S4 level sharpening in DPP, or in camera if you shooting JPEGs.

And speaking of hating camera, when I realized, that very hi-regarded Nikon D300 can't give me colours I was looking for, I was "upgrading" from Fuji S3PRO that time, I sold all my Nikon gear and got very nice 1D Mark3 and still happy with it.

dcstep · December 8, 2012

WW may be a professional teacher, but all that studying and writing down is not effective for many of us learning physical activities. Instead of all that crazy paralysis by analysis, how about learning one or two functions per day? You want these actions to become spinal cord reactions ultimately and that only happens with physical practice.

Shoot in Av or Tv mode (it doesn't matter which because you can see all the setting in the viewfinder). Now, for instance, in the Av mode, learn to change the aperture without taking your eye off the viewfinder. Learn to change the ISO without taking your eye from the viewfinder. Next, learn to add or substract EV without taking your eye from the viewfinder. Next, learn to change the AF patterns without taking your eye off the viewfinder. Next, learn to move the AF point around (away from center) without taking your eye from the VF. Shoot Raw and ETTR (expose to the right). Finally, do your Raw conversion with a competent program, such as LR or DxO or DPP.

These are physical things. Reading and writing about them, for many of us, does not ingrain the physical reaction with the needed change. Resolve to practice one or two of these daily for a week or two and they'll be second nature. ETTR, when shooting Raw, maximizes the camera's dynamic range, just don't blow out important highlights by more than 1-stop. Use them every day and shoot thousands of pix per month and all this will be second nature.

William Michael · December 8, 2012

all that studying and writing down is not effective for many of us learning physical activities. Instead of all that crazy paralysis by analysis, how about learning one or two functions per day?

</blockquote>

Certainly people have different learning styles. But, David, you have completely missed the point. That step by step template given above is EXACTLY an example of a template for “learning one or two functions per day”.

The only 'analysis' in it, is for the user to have a REASON for each CHOICE he makes and to articulate that reason. Surely that is not paralysis, to have a good reason for a choice?

Also remember that step by step example was given as a specific ONE of TWO OPTIONS answer, to a question of 'what do I do now?’ from a person who was already 'full of knowledge'.

So do not take the example out of context and assume that it is a suggestion of how a newbie should learn: though the principle is the same.

The newbie, as they learn the basic functions first (the TTL Meter you might note I suggest is a good beginning) should begin to develop and understand the REASONS for their choices.

WW

dcstep · December 8, 2012

WW, I'm a good student, but if I walked into your photography class I'd drop it, no offense meant, but all that digging around in manuals prior to hands on work is wasted with me. For many people, I think it's a huge mistake to take deep dives into manuals to try to "learn" a particular camera. I scan the manual, then start picking a function or two to learn and take them into the field to practice.

Learning about ETTR, zone systems, etc. is all good in a classroom setting for me, but actual learning physical functions of a camera is best for me when I sit with the camera in my hands, read about a function, try it sitting in my chair and then go out into the field and apply it.

Using the shutter release vs. the back button AF select is a classic example of something that you don't know until you actually try it. You can read about both ways to operate AF and defend which is superior. However, neither is superior for everyone and you'll need to try them both before you decide what will be your default. None of the theoretical justifications hold water, it's a matter of what's most comfortable to the user.

William Michael · December 8, 2012

If one reads the whole thread, it will be noted here is addressed a good method of learning a 'new tool' - for beginner or veteran:

“<a href="../photodb/user?user_id=2223148">William W</a>, Dec 04, 2012; 05:27 p.m.

. . . you say about learning "the new tool" - I for one am willing to learn! Can you please be specific about what is that you wish me to learn/ practise?

</blockquote>

“I shall.

My comment about learning the tool was general and generic to all cameras. Although latter in this thread I did make a specific comment about understanding the nuances of Post Production and tailoring minor details, for the 7D.

However my first comment on this thread was about taking the time and making the effort to learn a new camera: in this respect –

I suggest that the TTL Metering System be the first which is tested; learned and understood.

Then (for a digital camera) the general latitudes of over and under exposure must be tested and understood.

Then the efficiencies and effectiveness of the AF Modes and AF Points (i.e. a complete understanding of the AF system).

Whilst pursuing the above one should be using and learning the different functionalities / layout and ergonomics of the camera.

So those are my first four basics to know inside out and upside down about a new camera.”

WW

William Michael · December 8, 2012

I'm a good student, but if I walked into your photography class I'd drop it, no offense meant, but all that digging around in manuals prior to hands on work is wasted with me.

</blockquote>

David I am sure you are a good student . . . and no offense to you:

But do NOT attribute to me things which I have NOT suggested - - -for example where do I mention that you need to dig around in the Manual?

IF you read the whole thread – as I have already mentioned – then answer me this - What is the first thing I suggested one does when one gets their hands on a new camera:

No don’t worry, I’ll answer it for you; it is right here:

“my first comment on this thread was about taking the time and making the effort to learn a new camera: in this respect – I suggest that the TTL Metering System be the first which is tested; learned and understood.”

***

The very FIRST thing I suggest is to TEST, LEARN and UNDERSTAND the TTL metering system –

NO MENTION of the USER MANUAL.

No offense meant David, but I expect more of my good Students, than misquoting and slinging those misquotes back at me.

And seriously, that is a sincere, ‘no offense’: I am just pointing out that you are wrong in your assumptions.

WW

dcstep · December 8, 2012

Each post stands on its own professor. You can pontificate all you want about what you said several pages ago (I've been in this thread since the very beginning, BTW), but seven posts up you proposed an arduous step by step process that I think would be counterproductive to many, if not most of us. You may "expect more from your students" and I respect that, but that's also why I'd withdraw from a class such as you propose. There's no sense in butting heads when you're trying to learn. I'd prefer to move onto a teacher with a different style.

William Michael · December 8, 2012

Each post stands on its own professor. You can pontificate all you want about what you said several pages ago (I've been in this thread since the very beginning, BTW), but seven posts up you proposed an arduous step by step process that I think would be counterproductive to many, if not most of us

</blockquote>

That’s strange. Most would understand the thread is a continuum of a conversation or conversations and each post might be adding to that general continuum and or answering SPECIFIC points.

The seven step process was an answer to ONE person - is that concept so difficult to comprehend?

Given that you wish to take selected items and misquote; misinterpret and sling them back for when and how they suit your purpose – then it is best that you are dismissed.

WW

hakhtar · December 8, 2012

Sorry William, now it has come to a point where you make little sense. You are trying to teach as some of us have just held the camera first time! I for one, have repeatedly said that I have/ had no problems is getting good results from my 5Dll or the cameras before - don't you understand that it would not be so should I have lacked the photographic skills.

You are disrespectful to suggest that if 7D is not giving good results, it is because the operator needs to have basic photography lessons from you. Perhaps you are so obsessed with the theory that your own practice (i.e. captures) appears to have developed gaps!

dcstep · December 8, 2012

WW, your seven-step process is contrived and overly involved for most of us trying to learn a physical process. You can't dismiss someone that's already left the class.

dcstep · December 8, 2012

WW, your seven-step process is contrived and overly involved for most of us trying to learn a physical process. You can't dismiss someone that's already left the class.

dcstep · December 8, 2012

Back to our OP, I can't see where Kamran has posted any examples of his problematic images for evaluation.

If he'd like to get specific advice, beyond ETTR, then I'd suggest that he start another thread, with a less provacative title, showing some images and EXIF files and describing his processing and asking how the images could be improved.

William Michael · December 8, 2012

Sorry William, now it has come to a point where you make little sense. You are trying to teach as some of us have just held the camera first time! I for one, have repeatedly said that I have/ had no problems is getting good results from my 5Dll or the cameras before - don't you understand that it would not be so should I have lacked the photographic skills. You are disrespectful to suggest that if 7D is not giving good results, it is because the operator needs to have basic photography lessons from you. Perhaps you are so obsessed with the theory that your own practice (i.e. captures) appears to have developed gaps!

</blockquote>

That’s a good outcome.

Perhaps now you will not ask any more questions – because certainly you have great difficulty in answering my two simple questions to you.

What finger do you use over the shutter release?

Explain why you use that finger?

And you get on your high horse speak of disrespect and obsessions - ?

The irony of you.

WW

hakhtar · December 8, 2012

William, depending on the situation or where I wish, I can use my middle finger instead to press the shutter button leaving my index finger free to roll the Main Dial whenever necessary e.g. to change the settings.

Can you please move on from these childish riddles!

William Michael · December 8, 2012

Already answered.

WW

john_r._fulton_jr. · December 8, 2012

Ralph Gibson suggested a few years ago (in the film era) that if you want to be a better photographer you can do it in 30 days. Shoot ten rolls of (36 exp) film everyday for 30 straight days. You will be a better photographer.

Husain, you just need to get out and shoot more. It doesn't make a bit of difference if you use your index finger, your middle finger or your nose to release the shutter. I personally don't even care if you use the viewfinder all the time. Just get out and shoot.

Personally, I find the 7D to be a delightful camera to shoot with. You should be fine.

don_baccus · December 8, 2012

Nick Doronin:

"Guys, just go out and take some pictures" Good advice. While William and David continued to argue (I'm with David for the most part), I decided to step out onto my back deck and take a photo ... And, William, I have no idea why I used the finger I did, nor do I care (the middle finger's reserved for Ann, though). Attached you'll find one photo demonstrating that the 7D's autofocus doesn't work - by design. Ugh, well actually you can't tell how razor-sharp the eye is from my overcompressed 600 pixel wide JPG. So much for sarcasm ...<div></div>

William Michael · December 8, 2012

"I have no idea why I used the finger I did"

Yes, Don, that is agood answer.

Yes, Don, I agree that Nick gave good advice.

WW

Spearhead · December 8, 2012

It would be interesting to see what the raw file looked like before you processed it.

</blockquote>

I didn't read this thread after the original post until today. The funny thing here is the idea that there is an "unprocessed RAW" file.

All RAW files have to be processed to be observed as anything but a collection of 1s and 0s. Something has to process them to get to a visible file, whether it's the camera software or an external application, including an image viewer.

don_baccus · December 8, 2012

Jeff ...

"All RAW files have to be processed to be observed as anything but a collection of 1s and 0s. Something has to process them to get to a visible file"

Processing, in this context, is understood by engineers (like me) to mean the bits are changed and new values are stored.

The matching of bits to an output device doesn't change the file being displayed, be it RAW, JPEG, TIFF or whatever.

Actually, even displaying the file contents as !s and 0S requires processing ... but this isn't the idea caught by what people describe as processing of photos.

Don't be anal...

dcstep · December 8, 2012

I took this with my 7D last night:

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