New model gossip?

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>This kind of thinking that one model is the "replacement" for another doesn't always work. The roles of cameras in different generations can be different. In the past it has been many times so that Nikon positions the new models in between the older models and there is partial overlap in production times.</p>

<p>Regarding "fast" and affordable cameras. In 2007-10 Nikon put their cards heavily into the fast camera with moderate pixel count basket (with D300/D300s/D700/D3/D3s/D3s all being 12MP 8-9fps capable cameras) and while e.g. the D3s got loud applause from many photojournalists and sports photographers, nevertheless great many professionals just bought the 5D Mk II i.e. they chose a slow, high resolution camera with primitive AF. Nikon was met with fierce criticism for their lack of an affordable high res option. Now, they are doing the opposite: offering increased resolution in all DSLR product classes (sometimes tripling the pixel count) and only one really fast camera, the D4. Here's the gist: they are never going to offer <em>everything</em> one might want <em>for a low price</em>.</p>

<p>I think it is easiest to just adopt to what is being offered and make the most out of it. Sometimes it requires a change of paradigm. For the high speed telephoto applications, in my opinion, Canon is a great option, as they offer more high quality telephoto options than Nikon, and many of their current long lenses are significantly lighter than Nikon's as well. For shooting the types of subjects that the OP mentions, i.e. "candid animal or animal performance/competition shoots", I think 70-200/2.8 and 300/4 would be suitable, maybe 300/2.8 also if you can afford it. Both manufacturers offer this type of lenses but Canon also offers a 70-300/4-5.6 L which may be more convenient to use and yet is of very high quality, if you have enough light to shoot with it. If you're shooting in the dark then you may find FX to work better than 1.5X/1.6X crop but then you need longer lenses more often.</p>

<p>The D300s is probably still the best camera for you if you don't have a fast 300mm lens and are just working with on 70-200 type lenses. Eventually Nikon will get the replacement ready. Alternatively you can look for a used D3s and get a 300/4 AF-S; this would give you speed and adequate reach, I think. (I don't know which lenses you use, it's difficult to help without it.) A D7000 may also work though I think its AF can't really keep track of a fast moving subject with the aperture set to f/2.8 (not as well as Multi-CAM 3500 cameras especially D800/D4).</p>

 

[beth_adams]

<p>I live with the 70-200 2.8 and rent longer lenses when doing a big agility event. Just got press credentials for Westminster, so you might gather how excited I am and how quickly my business is growing only 3 yrs in.<br>

Thanks everyone for your thinking on this topic.</p>

 

[ShunCheung]

<p>I have never thought of the D600 being a "replacement" for the D300S; the two cameras can hardly be more different: one is FX, one is DX, frame rates are totally different and so are the AF systems.</p>

<p>Actually Nikon had made it very clear that the D7000 is not the successor to the D90; instead, the D7000 is a new in between class of DSLR between the D90 and D300S. As far as which is the successor to which, I would completely ignore that chart on Wikipedia.</p>

[ann_overland]

<p>Okey, forget about that chart then.</p>

<p>But Shun, do you really think that D300s will be followed by two successors, both a FX and a DX camera? They are both in the professional compact line?</p>

[ShunCheung]

<p>First of all, I have no insider information and therefore could well be wrong, but I believe that the D300S, which Nikon can no longer sell in Japan since November, 2011 (over a year ago) due to the exposed contacts on the EN-EL3e battery, will be updated by one DX model. However, I am puzzled that Nikon puts the Multi-CAM 4800 AF module (also used on the D7000 and D600) into the D5200. It leaves little room for the successor to the D7000. Therefore, there is a chance that Nikon might merge the D7000 and D300S into just one new model: <a href="00b3XK">http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00b3XK</a></p>

<p>However, speculation will never lead us anywhere. The Consumer Electronic Show (CES) begins on January 8, 2013. Potentially we may get an answer there. (The next Photokina will be in September, 2014; it is held every two years in even years.)</p>

[Peter_in_PA]

<blockquote>

<p>Therefore, there is a chance that Nikon might merge the D7000 and D300S into just one new model...</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is EXACTLY what I believe they might and perhaps should do. D7000 form factor, D300-esque AF (and hopefully construction). </p>

<p>I'm afraid they will figure a D9000 or D7200 that is a D7000 with the better 51-pt AF but NOT the more rugged construction will be all they need, though.</p>

<p>Then you'd have D3200/D5200/D9000/D600/D800/D4. Pretty simple and well-rounded model line, and easy to understand (4-digits = consumer, 3 digits = semi-pro, 1 digit = pro) but there are a lot of guys who still want a D400. I'm afraid they won't get it.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p><em>However, I am puzzled that Nikon puts the Multi-CAM 4800 AF module (also used on the D7000 and D600) into the D5200.</em></p>

<p>The D5200 has unique applications in the Nikon DSLR line as it has the tilting screen that can be very helpful for crowd shots at outdoor events (you can use another camera but shooting towards the crowd with arms extended up it is really hard to see the LCD if it doesn't tilt), special (low/high) angles in portraiture, and macro work in the field. Thus it has some appeal among advanced shooters and not just beginners. Incorporating a better screen, AF, and sensor into the D5200 (compares to the D5100) positions the camera higher up in the market. Although the phase-detect AF cannot be used for live view shooting it extends the application of the camera towards general photography.</p>

<p>I strained my neck in January this year when shooting icicles with the 200 Micro from a low angle, trying to get the camera really low to get the icicles completely in focus. I could not use the 85 PC-E (which would have let me shoot from a higher angle and obtain adequate sharpness due to tilt) because the icicles were too small for 1:2; I was at 1:1 with FX. The 200 Micro led me to squash my chin against the sea ice and my neck still is giving me some trouble when I turn my head driving the car. This problem would have been avoided if I had had a camera with a tilting screen. (I could adopt a NEX or MFT camera with a tilting screen to use my 200 Micro with but it woudn't work with the 85 PC-E so I'm not really enthusiastic about this.)</p>

<p> </p>

[ShunCheung]

<blockquote>

<p>Incorporating a better screen, AF, and sensor into the D5200 (compares to the D5100) positions the camera higher up in the market.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Right, but that also removes one of the major differences between the D5100 and D7000, namely AF capability. Therefore, exactly which features Nikon will put into the successor to the D7000 to differentiate it from the D5200, and in turn how to differentiate the D300S' successor from the rest.</p>

<p>That is why I think Nikon may:</p>

<ol>

<li>Merge the D7000 and D300S into one model, which will be the top-of-the-line DX model.</li>

<li>Have one high-pixel DX model with 24MP and metering with AI/AI-S lenses, weather sealing, etc. but maybe 5 fps and a separate high-speed model with maybe 16 or 18MP and 8, 9 fps. That would be the equivalent of how the D4 and D800 differ without the D4's huge size and quality. The latter would be the direct competitor to Canon's 7D and its successor.</li>

</ol>

<p>One way or another, I am certain that there will be a successor to the D300S.</p>

[ann_overland]

<p>What about those who would want meetering with AI/AI-S lenses, 16-18MP and 8,9 fps? I'd rather see one model that could do all of these things. And one of the most important features for me would be very good high ISO properties. And of course: No noise. And why not 15fps like on the Nikon 1 V2? (Runs and hides...)</p>

[c_watson1]

<p><em>That is why I think Nikon may:</em></p>

<ol>

<li><em>Merge the D7000 and D300S into one model, which will be the top-of-the-line DX model.</em></li>

<li><em>Have one high-pixel DX model with 24MP and metering with AI/AI-S lenses, weather sealing, etc. but maybe 5 fps and a separate high-speed model with maybe 16 or 18MP and 8, 9 fps. That would be the equivalent of how the D4 and D800 differ without the D4's huge size and quality. The latter would be the direct competitor to Canon's 7D and its successor.</em></li>

</ol>

<p><em>One way or another, I am certain that there will be a successor to the D300S</em></p>

<p>You need to read Thom Hogan's 12/3 post on the "D400" and future DX bodies.</p>

<p>Funny how a little speculation boosts traffic, no? Couldn't hurt.</p>

<p>Gimme focus peaking with MF lenses a la Sony NEX, too.</p>

[ilkka_nissila]

<p>People want all sorts of things. The D4 is the only one of the new Nikons that really fits my hands and is comfortable to use. I just want Nikon to put either the 24MP sensor from the D600 (preferable to me), or the 36MP one from the D800 (if they must), into the D4 body. And get rid of the hang-ups of the D800. Just yesterday I was shooting an event with the D800, and at some point after a pause of a long time (>1 min) I pressed MENU and the camera hung up for about 20 s without responding to anything. There was no card activity from previous shooting. It does this to me almost every day (usually in playback, now after pressing MENU). There's no way I could bring this camera as it is to shoot a wedding ceremony given this behaviour. I would like to get a properly tested D4X that fits the hand (and can be operated with gloves on), has more eye relief for my glasses, doesn't skip most of the sensor data out in live view and doesn't make me wait for seconds after each shot in LV mode. (I'm not the only one with these problems; I know several people who have owned/own the D800 and have the same feelings.)</p>

<p>There are only so many models that Nikon can produce. Rather than think about what will possibly never be, I think it's far better to focus on how to achieve what we need to shoot with the cameras that exist today.</p>

<p><em>What about those who would want meetering with AI/AI-S lenses, 16-18MP and 8,9 fps? I'd rather see one model that could do all of these things. And one of the most important features for me would be very good high ISO properties. </em></p>

<p>That sounds like the D4. Nikon know what is desirable and useful and ask top dollar for it, because they can.</p>

<p><em>Funny how a little speculation boosts traffic, no? Couldn't hurt.</em></p>

<p>Is it good traffic? Is it a good use of our time? I think not.</p>

[c_watson1]

<p><em>Funny how a little speculation boosts traffic, no? Couldn't hurt.</em><br>

Is it good traffic? Is it a good use of our time? I think not.</p>

<p>PN isn't exactly a hive of activity nor do you have to read the "drivel." Don't hear any crickets chirping on this thread.</p>

[beth_adams]

<p>I knew I would get a range of opinions, guesses, wishes, but I certainly never thought it was a waste of everyone's time. </p>

<p>Guess all of you who think I'm an amateur (as noted in classifying the models) would think it is a waste of your time... though I also guess you didn't have any obligation to participate either, huh?</p><div></div>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>The Amateur or Professional designation, other than for Nikon's NPS, is an arbitrary division that, as far as I'm concerned, has very, very little to do with ability. Sometimes it appears here as a 'prejudice' that doesn't belong anywhere.</p>

<p> </p>

[c_watson1]

<p>Don't get the rancor or dismissiveness toward rumor sites and/or anyone running one who offers opinion or analysis concerning future Nikon products. Few probably abstain from the occasional peek at them.</p>

[Peter_in_PA]

<blockquote>

<p>The Amateur or Professional designation, other than for Nikon's NPS, is an arbitrary division that, as far as I'm concerned, has very, very little to do with ability. Sometimes it appears here as a 'prejudice' that doesn't belong anywhere.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>This is true, but Nikon's pro and amateur designations are clear with regard to MODEL. That's what I was referring to. Do pros use amateur cameras? Well, Galen Rowell certainly did!</p>

[Dieter Schaefer]

<p>If Nikon indeed merges the D7000 and D300S line - then please let it be into a D400 and not into a D7100 or D7200 or D8000 or D9000 (or whatever it will be called). The important distinguishing features would be: in-camera AF motor, meters with non-CPU lenses, fast frame rate, large buffer, weather sealing - so they might as well go for the sturdy D300-type body and not that half-baked D7000 one.</p>

<p>Once the US price point of the D5200 is announced, things might become a little more transparent. If below $1,000 for the body - then I would expect a D8000 at $1500. If around $1,200 - then we will be getting a $1700 D400. But with the D7000 and the D600 already using the cheaper chassis there might be little incentive for Nikon to put a better one in the camera in the middle between the two.</p>

<p>If Canon's 7D MkII becomes reality - then there just has to be a D400 response from Nikon.</p>

<p>It seems to me that neither Canon nor Nikon really know how to continue with DX - in particular the upper end of the line. To me, the D7000 was a step down from the D300S and to the same extent, the D600 is too; I would have to spend $3K on a D800 to get something equivalent. I likely won't since the specs aren't favorable for me - so I would turn to the used market and satisfy any need for a "new" body with a D300S and or a D700; in essence sitting out this round of Nikon offerings and hoping for the next one. At least that's something a long-time Nikon user is used to - waiting for Nikon to do the right thing. If one is used to the features and ergonomics that body-style offers, it is tough to step down a notch or two. But I guess many must feel the same about the demise of the pro-body with the built-in battery grip - now only available in the $6K D4.</p>

[panayotis_papadopoulos]

<p><em>...It seems to me that neither Canon nor Nikon really know how to continue with DX...</em><br>

Why not see what Pentax did with<strong> K-5 II</strong> which accordingly to DXO, is currently <strong>the best crop camera</strong> available. Maybe that should stop the megapixel war...just thinking out loud. Cheers!</p>

[dan_south]

<p>I never gossip about models, but I suspect that they might be gossiping about me. ;-)</p>

[michael_bradtke]

<p>Beth Adams<br>

NICE SHOT!!</p>

[beth_adams]

<p>Thanks Michael! Bet you can see why fps are so vital to me - LOL</p>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>When people say you don't need high fps, just good timing, I'm somewhere between laughing and crying! </p>

<p>Luckily there are<strong><em> some</em></strong> photographers on here that understand...:-)</p>

[ann_overland]

<p>You're getting professional, Beth! Isn't it great to be around happy dogs?</p>

[beth_adams]

<p>OMG - I do cairn terrier rescue, so I've seen just about everything... But lure coursing is the time that I have seen the pure, sheer, unadulterated, totally unabashed joy of a dog. Yea, they love to do lots of other things too, but this is just totally cutting loose.</p>

<p>Mike - timing does count of course (like I have to know the striding for jumping horses), but speed and the ability to pan well are often underrated. Took a wedding photog friend with me once just because I was sick of hearing it. At our next club meeting, he told them all about how hard it is.</p><div></div>

[mike_halliwell]

<p>Beth, that's often the only way to get the message across...:-(</p>

<p>Sounds like you, Michael and myself have a horsey trend here!</p>

<p>Cute pooch shot :-)</p>