Waist level viewfinder

[louis_rosenthal]

<p>If I were to cut a slightly less than mirror-sized hole in a given nikon DSLR in order to make it (permanently) waist-level:</p>

<ul>

<li>is this even possible?</li>

<li>does it largely matter which model I choose for the project?</li>

<li>is there some sort of problem I'll definitely face, that will affect the images or even make it impossible to shoot?</li>

</ul>

<p>This project is essentially the culmination of my wish for a digital waist level viewfinder and for the love of me I hope it works. Couldn't find any material on the topic on the interwebs...<br /> Any help?<br /> Cheers,<br />Louis<br /><br />(I don't want Live View. :) )</p>

[Jerry_]

<p>You could just find a Nikon D5000 or Nikon D5100 body: the LCD screen swivels to make "like-a-waist-level-viewfinder" but not on a permanent basis.</p>

<p> </p>

[h._p.]

<p>Don't bother. Get yourself s Sony DSC-R1 and, in my opinion, you'll have it done right. I have no idea why it was the only high end digital camera built with a waist level finder. Having used one for four years, alongside Canon 5D and 40D SLRs, I assure you that it is a very effective picture taking machine with an outstanding lens.</p>

[louis_rosenthal]

<p>My trouble is that I'm not satisfied with live view - I shoot D700 and D300s, and recently got bit by an analog bug whilst bringing my great grandfather's Icarette 501 from 1919 back to life.<br /><br />My vision is a dslr with a functioning waist-level viewfinder. I'm thinking some old D50, D40, D100 or D200 just to try out and if things really go well I'll use that for a while and when enough money is around I'll buy an extra D700 and make the change there as well. (I need certainty, for obvious reasons)</p>

[ariel_s1]

<p>Yes, there's absolutely problems you will face. Light leak into the meter, a prism that isn't pointing the right way, you won't have the LCD for any shooting info (ISO, focus points, AF confirm light, etc). In short, no it isn't possible.</p>

<p>Why not just buy yourself this?<br /> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/357239-USA/Nikon_4753_DR_6_Right_Angle_Viewfinder.html</p>

<p>The original Nikon DSLRs like the F were able to use a waist level finder, but it involved removing the prism. Threads about it, plus a photo:<br>

http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00K2N8<br>

http://www.photo.net/classic-cameras-forum/00RjC9<br>

[louis_rosenthal]

<p>I shoot manual, always, so the meter won't bother me much.<br />i would REMOVE the prism, meaning i want it to be like the Nikon F without a prism, just looking from the top in, but with the possibility of having it far from my face when i shoot.<br /><br />Essentially, I want <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Nikon_F_viewfinder_DSC_6506.jpg">this</a>, digital. Affordably. With compatibility to my current 8 nikon lenses (DX and not).</p>

[louis_rosenthal]

<p>Also, as the mirror would ideally cover the hole entirely, light leaks should also not be an issue. I only hope I don't end up cutting any crucial wiring or anything... perhaps it'll be best to completely take apart the camera, cut the hole, remove the prism, and put it back together.<br /> I guess it's a matter of trying it out for the sake of having done so. If I don't, I'll always wonder if it might have worked.<br /> In any case, thanks everyone and I'll be sure to let you know if I somehow make it work, or more likely show you photos of a broken D40 with a giant gaping hole in the top. :D<br>

Wish me luck. ;)</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>I fail to see how a waist-level finder could make a DSLR more "analogue".</p>

<p>Have you ever used a 35mm camera with a waist-level finder Louis? Even with a hood and magnifier it's not an experience that I'd want to repeat for everyday photography, although it was OK on a copying rig under controlled lighting and for low or ground-level shooting. With the tiny screen of a DX camera it'd be a nightmare to use in bright light or with the finder at any distance from your face. So unless you're prepared to wreck an expensive full-frame DSLR for the dubious "advantage" of having a waist level finder, this IMHO is a non-starter of an idea. </p>

<p>How about a right-angle finder if you want to look down on the camera? Or just learn to love the LCD. The finder really doesn't matter, it's the final pictures that count.</p>

[ariel_s1]

<p>If you're feeling in an analog mood, why not just shoot film? I don't quite understand how using a waist-level finder makes a DSLR any more analog than just using the viewfinder either. I agree with Joe about usability. Various people in the links I posted agree with him as well. You're using a reversed image on a rectangular format. Oh, and also throw in the fact that the film/viewing area is about 4 times smaller than most medium format waist-level cameras (24x36mm vs 56x56mm), and even if you get it to work, it's not going to be fun to use. Your eye would be just as close as if you used the right-angle finder I linked above, but with much lower visibility. You seem to have dreams of having a waist-level finder on a D700, and actually holding the camera at waist level. If that's the case, then maybe you should buy a Nikon F with waist-level finder on ebay and use it for a week to see the reality of that setup. Plus, you state some of your lenses being DX, which is another hit to the brightness during focusing (especially if they're variable aperture, and if they aren't, then you could just as cheaply buy a Nikon F with associated lenses). I don't know why you're against live view, but another decent option would be just to shoot with a camera like the Sony NEX-5n (basically a mirrorless D7000) that has an optional tiltable finder, the FDAEV1S. Don't knock live view with it until you've tried it; the high-res OLED is a dream to use. You'd have just as much function as you would with a hacked-up Nikon anyway. More, in fact, since you'd have focus peaking and exposure, since you'd probably lose autofocus by hacking off the mirror.</p>

<p>If price is your issue with the right-angle Nikon finder, buy one of the Chinese knockoffs or buy used. Plus, consider the monetary hit that destroying a camera will cause. Last, even if it did work, as you mention, you'd need a second D700, which is another nice kick in the pants, even compared to the higher cost Nikon finder. However, at the end of the day, it's your money, so if you want to embark on this, it's no skin off my back, so good luck.</p>

[evannorth]

<p>i am quite sure that there are remote, (hot shoe mountable) lcd screens on the market that can connect to most modern dslrs via a hdmi cable available for the price of a used camera body. you would have to be almost insane to modify and quite likely ruin a camera by doing the alterations you are suggesting! </p>

[elliot1]

<p>I believe this is what you are looking for:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.proviewsite.com/index.html">http://www.proviewsite.com/index.html</a></p>

[Two23]

<p>Louis--<br>

I'll tell you where I'm "at" with photography right now. For the past two years I've dived deeper and deeper into historic cameras. I'm loving it! When I have to have a DSLR with waist level finder, the Nikon D5100 does exactly what I want. Otherwise, I've been using the ultimate camera with WLF--a 1951 Rolleiflex! This is a truly great camera. Since it has no mirror, there is no mirror slap. It is held against my body and this makes it very steady. I usually shoot b&w film in it--HP5 or Delta 3200 if I really need speed. For color I shoot Portra 400. I have a scanner at home and just scan the film myself. You could have the place that develops the roll make you a CD. Anyway, for me the Rollei and the D5100 are doing exactly what I want. No need to reinvent the wheel here. Rollei invented a pretty good one about 1930! Your other choice might be a Hasselblad 5xxCW with an older digital back. Even older & used, not cheap!</p>

<p>Kent in SD</p>

[lex_jenkins]

<p>I've used "waist level" finders on a couple of 35mm SLRs: Miranda Sensorex; Nikon F3. "Waist level" is a misnomer. They're "look down" finders but not useful at waist level. The screens are too small unless your vision is exceptional. Even when my vision was better than 20/20 I still found those finders much too small to be useful without magnifiers or strong reading glasses.</p>

<p>I doubt there's any practical way to modify any existing dSLR for a "look down" finder without an extension knowledge of the camera's electronics. Whether optical or EVF, the prism houses at least some circuits that would be difficult to isolate from the body to retain a functional camera.</p>

<p>There was at least one Kodak designed DCS digital back for the Nikon F3. I'd assume it could be used with the F3 eye level finder removed since the F3's metering was in the body behind the reflex mirror. Hunt around for a used one or set up an auto-notification on ebay to alert you the next time one is one sale.</p>

<p>There is - or was - a tiny digital TLR modeled on the Rollei design. No idea whether it was any good. At worst it's a cute toy.</p>

[jim_momary]

<p>Lots of 'stuff' in there that would have to be sidestepped a bit ...</p>

<p><a href="http://gizmodo.com/5795730/nikon-d5100-teardown-reveals-billions-of-screws-and-shock-hazard">http://gizmodo.com/5795730/nikon-d5100-teardown-reveals-billions-of-screws-and-shock-hazard</a></p>

<p>I bought a "waist level' finder for my old F4, and use it sometimes at low angles. But my old eyes are having issues with the teeny, dim view in any sort of bright location.<br>

Jim</p>

[prendy]

<p>I like the remote finder from Elliot Bernstein's post:<br>

http://www.proviewsite.com/index.html<br>

Maybe I have also seen an iPhone version. Either way, I'd like to try it.</p>

[h._p.]

<blockquote>

<p>Since it has no mirror, there is no mirror slap.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Wow! A TLR with no mirror. I gotta get me one of those...</p>

<p>:-)))</p>

[User_6502147]

<p>Unless you don't mind totally ruining the camera, the right angle attachment is a good way to go. You could also do this with F2/A/AS just by lifting the 'hood' (if it's prefocused) or use the waist viewfinder. There is also a finder that picks up the info via existing finder...tho allowing the small screen to remain flexible...in just about any position...and most likely it can be attached to where you'd mount the flash. good luck.<br>

<br />Les</p>

[User_6502147]

<p>Unless you don't mind totally ruining the camera, the right angle attachment is a good way to go. You could also do this with F2/A/AS just by lifting the 'hood' (if it's prefocused) or use the waist viewfinder. There is also a finder that picks up the info via existing finder...tho allowing the small screen to remain flexible...in just about any position...and most likely it can be attached to where you'd mount the flash. good luck.<br>

<br />Les</p>

[louis_rosenthal]

<p>So here's where I stand after reading all the comments repeatedly:</p>

<ul>

<li>My analog bug as I put it came in three parts. Seeing in live: Nikon F with removed prism (I consider it usable enough for my purposes), my friend's Yashica-mat and playing around with the Icarette 501, including making a improv matte screen. As I started digital, and getting just one roll of 120 film developed ($16) and scanned ($35) here is unfortunately more than just a bit pricey, I would like to have it digital, meaning everything identical, but not film, sensor (for me the point of a dslr is that one sees the analog image)</li>

<li>After looking at <a href="

I guess the feasibility of this project is indeed utterly low.</li>

<li>If I do win one of the auctions I'm participating in (all three under $100), I'll tear that camera a new one and hope for the best.</li>

<li>If not, I'll likely just save up and get a Hasselblad 5xx__ with the cheapest digital back i can find (Thanks for the thought Kent!)</li>

</ul>

<p>It'll be a bit over a week before I know more ...and the wait is killing me!</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>When I was in my 20's I could focus accurately with a Nikon F3 with simply the viewfinder removed. I can't do it any more.<br>

To make a camera waist level you must remove the entire prism.</p>

[rodeo_joe1]

<p>How about just sticking a wire-frame direct vision finder on the camera? An old coathanger should be easy enough to modify, and certainly a lot cheaper to wreck than any useable DSLR.</p>

[louis_rosenthal]

<p>hmmm (initial thought was "ridiculous!" but then, my plan is considerably worse..)<br>

I guess with a 45° angled mirror behind such a construction I could, with enough fiddling around get an accurate idea of what I'm focusing on.... I like the creativity :)<br>

....now why is it that I don't have any wire coat hangers, or wires at all for that matter :-/ I'll try that first perhaps, since it is by far the cheapest option.</p>

[bebu_lamar]

<p>Kodak used to modify Nikon SLR to make their DSLR. A number of them were based on the F3 and F5. If you got these you can use the the F3 or F5 waist leve finder. Of course the earliest model was only about 1MP and the lastest only 6MP.<br>

But instead of using wire frame how about just learn the FOV of your lens and shoot from the hip? It work ok for me when I don't want people to know that I am taking their picture.</p>

[ant_nio_gomes]

<p>Hi Louis,<br>

Please have a look at this video and pause it at second 35 just to see how many electronic bits stay with the upper part of the body and you'd need to tear apart to get room for your waist level finder... and not considering the dust isolation difficulties you'd face:<br>

 

[Alex_Es]

<p>Ah, the waist level finder! I have used WLFers for candid photography. It is true you cannot see much from the waist. You have to jimmy around a bit if you are using a WLF for candids. They are absolutely fantastic for shooting cats. Do not take a hacksaw to an DSLR. Get an F3, F4 or F5 and then try to locate a WLF. There are tons for the F3. F4 a bit less so. I've yet to see one for the F5. </p>