Nikon non-AI lenses compatibility and conversions - an apostate's tale

[e._cubarrubia]

<p><strong>Background</strong><br /> Back in 2004 when I finally decided I needed to go digital, I was faced with the fact that my nice collection of Nikon lenses was "non-AI"-- that is pre-1977 lenses with the solid prong and which required the Nikon Twist (aka, <em>shuffle</em>, don't write) to "index" their maximum aperture for the TTL exposure systems on cameras like the Nikkormats and the F1 and F2. <br /><br />I wanted to know whether my lenses would work on Nikon digital SLRs or not. <br /><br />I wrote Nikon in the USA, no answer.<br />I wrote Nikon in the UK, also no answer. <br />I asked my friends who had newer Nikons. Wisely, as it turned out, they would not let me try my old lenses on their bodies.<br /><br />I looked all over the internet, and one of the few discussions I found on how to use non-AI lens Nikkors was Bob Atkins essay at Canon EOS lens Adapters - Using Manual focus lenses on Canon EOS bodies on how to adapt them to Canon EOS cameras. Elsewhere, Bob also praised the Canon operating system as being natural for Macintosh users, as I recall.<br /><br /><br />So to make a long story no longer, I ended up getting a Canon EOS camera and a bunch of cheap Nikon>EOS adapters for my Nikkors. Of course, I also started investing in Canon lenses to get AF and all the conveniences, but I was able to use my PC-Nikkor and other lenses without much more inconvenience than they were on my older Nikons. Also, there was stop-down TTL metering as well.<br /><br />However, if I could have got the information I am going to present below (and if the recent Nikon digital bodies had been available then), I might be a digital Nikon user today (I still shoot my old film Nikons regularly).<br /><strong><br /></strong><br /> <strong>Information on non-AI lenses and conversions<br /></strong><br /> <strong><br /></strong>First - here is a link to the Nikonians' compatibility table for Nikon and Nikon/Nikkor lenses: http://www.nikonians.org/nikon/slr-lens.html <br /><br /><br />Here also is John White's site. As a 'preservationist' I am personally reluctant to modify old lenses. However, I know that there are otherwise well-meaning people who do not agree with this viewpoint. By all accounts (and he has been doing this for a long time I think back to 1977, in fact), White does a very nice job. If you need to covert, he is, I think, the place to go<br /><br /><a href="AI Conversions for Nikon Lenses: Effective, Fast and Affordable!">http://www.aiconversions.com/</a> <br /><br />However if I understand his website correctly, you can now safely mount non-AI lenses on the following: D40, D40X, D60, D3000, D3100, D5000 and D5100.<br /> If this is not so, respond here immediately, if you please, so a disclaimer can go in. Since some bodies can be damaged by non-AI lenses this is not just a curiosity issue. Always exercise care and you take your own responsibility for any lens cross-mounting you choose to do.<br /><br />White's table at http://www.aiconversions.com/compatibilitytable.htm gives details on the conversions and what is needed (BTW, also to put newer lenses on pre-AI bodies, but that's another story).</p>

[e._cubarrubia]

After several years of participating in the Digital Photography Review (DPR) forums on Nikkor Non-Ai use on Nikon DSLR bodies, I gave up. I contacted NikonUSA several time and not one Tech Support Rep seem to know what they are talking about. Keeps on referring me to their Nikon Lens / Nikon DSLR compatibility chart.

 

I have been using ALL my Nikkor non-Ai lenses, with no modification, on every Nikon DSLR I used to and currently own (D90, D200, D5100, D600, D5300, and D800). Naturally, limited to Manual Exposure and manual focus only. My only Ai lens is the Nikkor NOCT 58mm f/1.2 lens. Work on all exposure mode but only on manual focus.

 

The only Nikkor non-Ai lens that cannot even be mounted is the H type. I do not own one but I tried a used one at a local camera store.

[JDMvW]

I think before you try mounting unmodified non-AI lenses on any Nikon F-mount body (as cubarrubia suggests) you should read the links provided in my post.very carefully. You should also pay attention to the other posts above.

 

There are real dangers, as the Nikonian and other sites detail, of actual physical damage in doing so. It is true that the mount diameter remains the same so a non-AI lens can be forced on any Nikon F-mount body, but that is not the same. At the time of my 'conversion' (2004), the situation was as I described it.

 

 

Or, on the other hand, are you feeling lucky today?

[James Bryant]

One interesting detail is that an F6 can be sent in to Nikon for modification to safely use non ai lenses. It is my understanding that the Df is designed to accept non ai lenses. An other choice is to have the non ai lenses modified.

[Sandy Vongries]

I have had many lenses converted by John White of AI Conversions. Fast, friendly, inexpensive. He even had the factory conversion kit for a lens or two. He is extremely knowledgeable. Highly recommend his service -- a rare jewel in a world where there are fewer and fewer customer friendly businesses. It is great fun to use all my old primes, and even the dinosaur 50-300 Zoom once in a while.

[rodeo_joe1]

The issue is that the aperture ring of some pre-Ai lenses will collide with the AI follower tab of some Nikon DSLR models with the potential for damaging the tab. Those cameras that have a plastic (and non-flippable) follower tab are the ones at risk.

 

IMO Nikon's reps were quite right to direct you to the published compatibility chart. Although I have found "incompatible" lenses that don't interfere with the tab on my own DSLRs, the clearance involved is marginal. I definitely wouldn't recommend randomly trying pre-AI lenses on your DSLR without knowing, and accepting, the risk.

 

And why revive a 5 year old thread to start an argument over what's a fairly straightforward compatibility issue?

[JDMvW]

And why revive a 5 year old thread to start an argument over what's a fairly straightforward compatibility issue?

 

Hear hear!

[Matthew Currie]

;I think Jon White's information is accurate. You can safely mount an unconverted or partially converted pre-AI lens on any of the later low-end DSLR's such as my D3200, with no harm, because the minimum aperture tab presses downward instead of moving sideways. On early AF cameras without an AI follower, the conversion must be complete (White's type 2) because the min. aperture tab moves sideways instead of up and down. For example, I have a Fuji S1, based on an N60, and an N65, and neither of them can safely use a pre-AI lens without the complete conversion, even though they have no AI followers.

 

One of the things I like about the D3200 is this ability to shoot manually with everything.

 

I have, and regularly use, a pre-AI 35/2.8 PC lens, and because these have no rotating aperture ring they are very easy to convert. You can remove the ring, and turn, sand, or file it down a little, and it will be fully AI compatible with anything. I think you could probably just remove the ring and leave it off, if you did not mind the ugly appearance.

 

.

[rodeo_joe1]

All of the PC Nikkors (not PC-E) are effectively pre-Ai with no aperture coupling at all. There are however differences in the aperture ring clearance between models. I have both an early and mid version of the 35mm f/2.8 PC-Nikkors with chrome shift knob. One cleared the Ai tab with no modification, and the other had to be filed down. Unfortunately I can't remember which one needed modding and right now the lenses aren't with me.

 

I'm still not sure why Nikon ever dropped the flippable Ai tab. It was fitted on the relatively cheap FM and FE cameras, and obviously didn't add much cost to those cameras.

[Matthew Currie]

My 35/2.8 PC is the earliest of the 2.8 ones, from 1968-72, and definitely needed to have the ring trimmed.

 

I think the DOF lever on many newer cameras does not work mechanically the same as it used to, so you can't get an accurate stopped down meter reading using it with an auto aperture lens. For example, I have an old T4 auto lens that mounts fine on a D7100, because it clears the AI tab, and it functions in manual mode. But because the stop down lever is not mechanical, it does not hold the lens aperture down when you shoot, and does not show on the meter. But the stop down lever, though it shows DOF, does not change the meter reading, and disengages during shooting. It can only be used in fully manual mode without relying on the meter.

 

You can use a preset or manual aperture lens quite nicely, but not an auto aperture.

[mihai_ciuca]

Just FYI: the new D7500 camera has no AI tab and no support for non CPU lenses. I think this is a bad move for Nikon. I do not consider they save a lot of money renouncing to perfect compatibility with AI and AI-S lenses, raising the standard at AI-P. I think it is first Nikon camera launched at about $1250 MRSP, with no non CPU menu and metering. That's strange, if you want to keep using your old inexpensive glass, you have to grab a D7200 or to go considerably deeper in your pocket.

[bebu_lamar]

Just FYI: the new D7500 camera has no AI tab and no support for non CPU lenses. I think this is a bad move for Nikon. I do not consider they save a lot of money renouncing to perfect compatibility with AI and AI-S lenses, raising the standard at AI-P. I think it is first Nikon camera launched at about $1250 MRSP, with no non CPU menu and metering. That's strange, if you want to keep using your old inexpensive glass, you have to grab a D7200 or to go considerably deeper in your pocket.

 

Not sure exactly how they do it but according to the specs the D7500 does support non CPU lenses in manual mode only and does meter but only in CW and spot (no matrix). In CW only 8mm circle no changing size and in spot only the center focus point.

[Matthew Currie]

It will be interesting to see how the new gadget actually works. If it brings back the traditional stop down lever (which also in the F4 did not do matrix - which also did not work on converted pre-AI lenses even though they ran the AI meter), and if there is no AI follower, and if it has either no minimum aperture switch, or one that goes up and down like the D3xxx and 5xxx, it should mean that pre-AI lenses can be used, and stop down metered, with it as well.

[JDMvW]

This was originally posted in 2002.

 

re-animated for the second time because I'm still training my puppy and because "Why not?"

 

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