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Is D7000 really that bad?


jon_reisegg

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<p>NOT a statement on any of the posting individuals on this topic specifically (so don't flame me), but have you noticed how many times the people that gripe about their equipment turn out to be lousy artists with a camera? They go into meticulous detail gleaned from pixel-peeping about their supposed problem and then you see their work and you think for goodness sake learn how to use photography to create competent looking pictures before you criticize the tools.</p>
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<p>Focus works just fine on the Nikon D7000 if you feed it enough light, and take note of the cautionary AF warnings on page 93 of the User Manual. Pay attention to the first example. It was a big issue with me. For example, shooting under the canopy of a rain forest with a 16-85mm f.3.5-5.6, where the light is dim, and everything is one shade of green or another, my focus results were not stellar, to say the least. Mount a Nikon 17-55mm f2.8 and things change miraculously for the better. The D7000 likes fast lenses and/or lots of light, but nothing is perfect.</p>
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<p>Wow, 3 pages of comments and almost everyone blames the user.</p>

<p>For whatever its worth, I happen to agree with Illka, while the D7000 has a great AF in normal light and normal apertures (F\4 & up), at normal focal distances (100mm and below), I personally shoot extensively with the 85mm F/1.4, 70-200mm F/2.8, 300mm F/2.8 and primarily shoot those lenses wide open, and I find the D7000 to have focus issues 50-80% of the time at those settings.<br>

I'm basing my opinions shooting 3 D7000 bodies side by side with a D800 body. Like I said, anything at F/4 and up, the D7000 hits 90-100% of time. On the 24mm F/1.4G and the 85mm F/1.4G @ F/1.4, the D7000 has consist issues hitting focus, even when locked off on a tripod even when the subject is static, even across 3 bodies. Same issue with the 70-200mm on the long end at F/2.8 and the 300mm F/2.8 VR at F/2.8. Slapped the D800 body on and I could not get it to miss. That's not user error, that a camera's limitations.</p>

<p>While I have no doubt user error, and a very small percentage of camera defects plays a lot in the D7000's reputation of having a weak AF system, in my personal experience in a controlled tested environment over 3 bodies, that the D7000 does have a weak AF with long fast glass shot wide open and low light scenarios. Doesn't mean those things can't be worked around, but after I shot with my D800 for 24hrs, I refuse to ever pick up a D7000 ever again, because for the kind of shooting I do, the D800 is the difference between getting sharp shots 90% of the time, versus getting sharp shots 10% of the time.</p>

<p>As long as you plan to shoot normal glass at normal apertures or are willing to deal with a few focus misses on faster glass when you shoot it wide open, the D7000 will treat you great. </p>

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<p>Ilkka and Skyler, the two of you frequently have uncommon experiences. :-)</p>

<p>My experience with the D7000 is quite different. I captured the attached sample with the D7000 and the 50mm/f1.8 AF-S wide open at f1.8 inside a restaurant, so I used ISO 1600. I lose some sharpness simply by using the 50mm f1.8 wide open and at a high 1600 ISO. The kid was playing with an iPad, and the light from the iPad lights up his face. I focused on his left eye (closer to the camera), and as far as I can tell, AF accuracy can hardly be any better.</p>

<p>The Multi-CAM 4800 AF module on the D7000 has only 9 cross-type AF points, namely the 9 in the center of the frame in a 3x3 matrix. Under low light, I typically only use one of those nine for the best AF accuracy. When you use any one of the outside line type AF points, AF will tend to hunt under dim light and your accuracy suffers. The Multi-CAM 3500 on the D300/D300S and all Nikon FX-format DSLRs so far have 15 cross-type AF points. That gives you a little more room to work around, but I still find them too concentrated in the center of the frame, especially on FX bodies.</p><div>00aTb1-472545584.jpg.fcd140fbd7e1a5143e9ed0071a083733.jpg</div>

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<p>Lol, what can I say?</p>

<p>Well, not to be nit picky, but your subject does happen to have a bright light in his eye (where you focused). Most of the people I focus on in low light don't exactly have a large, bright, object reflecting in their eye which no doubt aids the AF system lock focus. That being said I will admit I do not always think to use the cross focus points when shooting in low light, but then again I doubt the OP or most of the people on this forum are even aware which points are the cross type points. And I didn't give much thought when I was testing the D800 side by side with the D7000 and using the same outside focus points.</p>

<p>I couldn't let a fellow "uncommon" photographer stand alone now could I? Seriously, anybody who tells you the 300mm F/2.8 or 85mm F/1.4 should be shot stopped down, isn't worth listening too. I mean whats the point of buying a $1700 85mm F/1.4 and stopping it down to F/2 when I could have just bought the $500 85mm F/1.8? or the $5500 300mm F/2.8 and stopping it down to F/4 and I could have just bought the $1400 300mm F/4? If anyone thinks shooting wide open is the user error then being a sane photographer in an insane world makes me a user error :).</p>

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<p>Now, here is another example I captured two days ago; it was during a school spring performance just before the end of the academic year. I was hand holding the D7000 with the 70-200mm/f2.8 AF-S VR II wide open at f2.8, ISO 1600, and 1/100 sec at 170mm. No doubt that VR helped a lot. Once again, the D7000's AF is right on under indoor, dim light condition inside a school auditorium with the 70-200 wide open.</p>

<p>In in inset image, I blurred out the other children since other parents might not want their kids' image on a public forum, but my main subject is very sharp at the pixel-level 100% crop despite that I was hand holding 170mm at 1/100 sec.</p>

<p>Pay attention to where I placed the subjects in both of these examples. The area I want to focus to is always covered by the 9 cross-type AF points in the center of the frame. Remember in my first post on this thread, I said I spent time to study how the Multi-CAM 3500 and Multi-CAM 4800 work? If you use a D7000 but don't fully understand how its AF system works and use that properly, please don't blame the camera.</p><div>00aTdU-472577584.jpg.c19698fe5273bf874a90826d2b17d242.jpg</div>

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<p>You've shown 2 pictures that are in focus. Its not difficult for me to rack up several hundred photos in several hours on a shoot and get dozens of in focus shots, but I'm also getting over a hundred shots I feel the AF slightly missed or completely missed. You posting 2 pictures is like someone pointing to Nikon's D800 brochure to say how amazing the camera is. It doesn't interest me to see that you get <em>a shot </em>in focus, because the D7000 does do that even in low light, its the percentage of keepers I'm interested in. While you may say don't blame the camera, I say that when I use the non cross type AF points on the D800 I don't have a problem, and the way I shoot, that is frequently a necessity to shoot the non cross type AF points, not all of us shoot kids who aren't moving in laid back environments. Yes, I'm a pro, I work difficult environments and yes when that happens I need a professional camera, and that's my opinion about the D7000, its a great camera, excellent IQ, very good AF, but not professional grade. Professional grade in my opinion is when the camera is put under difficult scenarios and continues to preform consistently. While the D7000 continues to preform under difficult scenarios, from my experience it isn't consistent. For the OP this probably won't be an issue, but that first time he tries to shoot under really low light with a fast lens, he'll notice these inconsistencies. If he's patient and he takes a bunch of shots, then he'll probably get some in focus shots, but often times I only have one shot to get what I need, and for that, I need an AF system that nails it 95% of the time, and for me, that isn't the D7000.</p>
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<p>Skyler, other than the D4, I have used every Nikon DSLR that uses the Multi-CAM 3500 AF module: D300, D300S, D700, D3, D3X, D3S and D800. My experience is that the D7000's AF capability is almost as good as any one of the others. Obviously having 9 vs 15 cross-type AF points makes some difference. However, IMO, having those 15 cross-type AF points on the much larger FX frame is arguably worse than having 9 on the smaller DX frame. In other words, the D300/D300S has the best of both worlds: 15 cross-type AF points covering the small DX area.</p>

<p>I can't possibly show you all of my images. For the school event, I was using the D700 and D7000 side by side, and AF on the D700 is just as good. From both cameras, I have my share of unsharp images mainly due to the slow shutter speeds and motion from the children. However, AF accuracy on the D7000 (and D700) has never been an issue for me. Moreover, if you use one of those outside line-type AF points on the Multi-CAM 3500 (there are 51 - 15 = 36 of them), even on the D3 family, AF will hunt under dim light just like the D7000/Multi-CAM 4800.</p>

<p>Think about this, if the D7000's AF cannot deliver as you try to describe, why would I even bother to bring it to an indoor event in the first place? I have many other DSLRs sitting at home, e.g. a D300, but it does not have the low-light capability the D7000 has. It is not my objective to capture a lot of out-of-focus images there.</p>

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I've put 25-30k shots on a pair of D3s bodies, and about the same on a pair of D7000's shooting everything from sports,

high fashion, weddings, landscape from San Francisco to New York to Florida, and based on those experiences, the

D7000's AF is good, but it's not in the same league as the D3 series, not by a long shot.

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<p>Center point AF has worked fine for 20 years, it is no great merit if the D7000 can AF using it. I think I use those cross-type points for less than 25% of my people images; the 2:3 aspect ratio is ill suited for centrally composed images. I'm not interested in giving handicap points to a camera that can't function competitively using <strong>all focus points</strong>, preferably with <strong>all Nikon AF lenses</strong> at<strong> all apertures</strong>, at <strong>all distances </strong>and in <strong>all lighting conditions</strong> where I can see the subject with my eyes. It's what a <em>system camera</em> is all about. Being trustworthy whatever you need to do with it.</p>

<p>Since there are so many cameras on the market, and so many different styles of photography, I don't see the point in continuing this discussion. The only way for a given photographer to figure out if the D7000 is going to work for them is to to try it out at some real-world photography situations; it either does what they need or it does not. If it does, they can then proceed to try to make great images, if not then they can try something else until they find something that does works for them. It's not that difficult! In any case different photographers will always continue to prefer different tools. It's about finding the right tool for you, not convincing someone else that<em> your</em> tool is what <em>they</em> should also use, or face charges that "they're poor craftmen." There seems to be so much animosity among photographers towards each other. This is just totally unnecessary.</p>

 

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<blockquote>

<p>"There seems to be so much animosity among photographers towards each other. This is just totally unnecessary."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>It's a good thing I'm having such a great day, or I would be putting my foot in my mouth again.</p>

<p>I just wish I could go out shooting with Shun and Ilkka. I think we would all have a nice time together.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>"The only way for a given photographer to figure out if the D7000 is going to work for them is to to try it out at some real-world photography situations; it either does what they need or it does not."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>These days, when it's too dark for my D7000 to focus properly, that usually means it's time for me to go to bed.</p>

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<blockquote>

<p>Center point AF has worked fine for 20 years, it is no great merit if the D7000 can AF using it. I think I use those cross-type points for less than 25% of my people images; the 2:3 aspect ratio is ill suited for centrally composed images.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Ilkka, I totally agree with that. That was why as soon as the D3 came out in 2007, in my early 2008 review, I pointed out that the Multi-CAM 3500's cross-type AF points are way too concentrated in the center 3 columns with 5 each (when the camera is in the landscape/horizontal orientation). For shooting portraits, the lack of reliable cross-type AF points in the top part of the frame where the subjects' eyes tends be is a limitation:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>While the 51 AF points from the Multi-CAM 3500 cover a good portion on the D300's DX frame, on the D3's FX frame, which has over twice the area, the 51 AF points only cover the center 25% of the frame. Therefore, some old-fashioned AF, lock focus, and recompose may once again be necessary. In particular, if the camera is held in the portrait (vertical) orientation, there is no cross-type AF point in the top 1/3 of the frame, where the subject typically is. It can be a problem under dim light.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><a href="../equipment/nikon/D3/D3-review">http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/D3/D3-review</a></p>

<p>In comparison, on the Canon 7D (APS-C format), 1DX and 5D Mark III, the cross-type AF points are more spreaded out across the frame. I haven't used those Canon DSLRs, but at least on paper, I prefer that AF design, and obviously that is doable. Therefore, when the D4 was announced back in January, I was disappointed that Nikon continues to use the Multi-CAM 3500, which suggests the same limitation will stay with us for at least another 3, 4 years during the D4 product cycle. And of course, that same limitation is now on the subsequent D800/D800E as well.</p>

<p>In other words, the Multi-CAM 3500 (D300, D700, D800, D3, D4) and Multi-CAM 4800 (D7000) share very much the same limitations. Under dim light, you are more restricted to the center cross-type AF points. Sometimes I am forced to use a line-type AF point under dim light, on any one of those bodies, and I immediately confirm whether AF is accurate or not.</p>

<p>Robert, for action photography, such as the hummingbird, I use AF-C (continuous) with 9 AF points. Sometimes I use 21 when the subject is larger. For the children that are sitting, I use AF-S (single) and stick to one cross-type AF point indoors as much as possible, regardless of whether I am using a D3, D700, D800, or D7000. The Multi-CAM 4800 is merely a slightly downsized Multi-CAM 3500. Their strength and weaknesses are otherwise very similar.</p>

<p>For those who use AF/AF-D type lenses that depend on the AF motor inside the camera, the D7000 certainly has a weaker AF motor compared to the D3 and D4. I still own a few AF/AF-D lenses, but most of my lenses are AF-S nowadays.</p>

 

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Last night Shun I happened to be in Alley, my exposure was F/1.4 (24mm), 1/40th, ISO 3200, and that was probably half

to a full stop under exposed. Now I've done extensive shooting at these light levels with the D7000, and I would say my

focus accuracy even with the AF assist light is less than 10%, the D7000 has always had a difficult time focusing on my

camera at F/1.4, even in broad daylight. So I decide to to put the D800 to the test, first I shoot with AF assist beam and

cross center time point, nails focus every time, so then I turn AF assist beam off, and use center point, still jail focus and

finally I use outside AF without AF assist beam and it still nails focus 90% of the time.

 

With no disrespect Shun but you could sooner convince me that men and women really have no psychological

differences or a stock "for two" car has more horse power than a Ferrari Enzo than the D7000's AF system is on par with

the D3/D4 family, there are no based for your claims and any pro who's used both bodies extensively knows that. Based

on my experiences I find your conclusions to be so wrong I wonder if your D7000 isn't in the 1% of cameras that works

much better than its supposed too. Sure the D7000's AF is pretty good, especially for a sub $1500 camera, but it just isn't

in the same class as the D3 and especially the D4 family. While you make claims that they all struggle in low light you are

full of baloney because I can shoot in at least a stop darker with my D800 than I can the D3 series and probably 2 stops

lower than the D7000.

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<blockquote>

<p>there are no based for your claims and any pro who's used both bodies extensively knows that</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Skyler, your make claims based on your experience and I make my claims based on mine. If your experience and therefore opinions differ from mine, so be it. However, you don't speak for other pros.</p>

<p>As of two days ago, you said that you had the D800 for about 48 hours, so it may be 96 hours now? I would suggest that you use the D800 for a few more weeks to learn a little more about that camera first.</p>

<p>And if your D7000 indeed has AF problems at f1.4 under broad daylight, something is definitely wrong. As I mentioned in my 85mm/f1.8 AF-S review, the test sample lens required -9 AF fine tune on my D7000. To verify that my camera was fine, I checked a bunch of lenses on it, including my 50mm/f1.4 AF-S @ 1.4 to make sure that the depth of field does not mask the problem. Later on I bought my own 85mm/f1.8 AF-S. My copy plus the 50mm/f1.4 AF-S and 50mm/f1.8 AF-S all have very accurate AF wide open on my D7000. I have already shown one sample image earlier: <a href="../equipment/nikon/lenses/85mm-f1.8-g-af-s/review/">http://www.photo.net/equipment/nikon/lenses/85mm-f1.8-g-af-s/review/</a></p>

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<blockquote>

<p>Now I've done extensive shooting at these light levels with the D7000, and I would say my focus accuracy even with the AF assist light is less than 10%, the D7000 has always had a difficult time focusing on my camera at F/1.4, even in broad daylight.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Skyler,</p>

<p>You should send your D7000 to Nikon for an evaluation. Something is not right.</p>

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<blockquote>

<p>Skyler, your make claims based on your experience and I make my claims based on mine.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>I'm not making claims, I'm looking at the tech specs Shun, the D4\D800 series AF are rated at a full stop brighter than the D3 series and the D7000. To say the D7000 is in the same league as the D4\D800 is like saying the 300mm F/4 is in the same league for low light shooting as the 300mm F/2.8.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>However, you don't speak for other pros.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Fair enough, I don't speak for other pros, but I sure get frustrated with amateurs who act like they are pros.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>As of two days ago, you said that you had the D800 for about 48 hours, so it may be 96 hours now? I would suggest that you use the D800 for a few more weeks to learn a little more about that camera first.</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />I've already been on 2 different professional shoots in Idaho and Tennessee and I haven't had the camera a week yet. While you have a real job and find a little time to shoot with your DSLRs, I shoot with DSLRs and find a little time to sleep, and maybe eat. And what are you suggesting? That the more I learn about the D800 that the AF will get worse? I've already done enough tests between the D800 and the D7000 to know that the D7000 has a far inferior AF, so unless as time goes on my D800 gets worse I don't really see what more time will do.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>And if your D7000 indeed has AF problems at f1.4 under broad daylight, something is definitely wrong.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That problem occurs on 3 different D7000 bodies, 1 of which the AF was checked by Nikon, one of which was brand new and one of which was damaged and returned to brand new condition. Its not the lens because I've used it on a D3s and now my D800 and no problems. Yes I've checked the back focus, not a problem, and even if it was the focus will be very erratic, it will nail it a couple of times, miss the subject and hit behind a couple of times and miss and hit in front a couple of times. This is the 24mm F/1.4G, and I've been extremely impressed with its focus accuracy on the D800, just not the D7000.</p>

<p> </p>

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<p>I'm a little late to this post but I do shoot with 2-D7000s, a D300, a D700, and finally a D800, all with different lenses. When I got my D7000's both had focus problems and one had an exposure problem. Instead of sending them back, I took them to Nikon Torrance and had them repaired. The one with the exposure problem took several weeks because parts had to be shipped from overseas. Both D7000s work perfect now. I've been using one of them for closeups with the 200-400 VR F4 and focus is spot on. I use the other one with the Sigma 8-16 or 17-70 OS F2.8-4. These are just fantastic combinations with great auto focus. Now to be fair, my D800 with 200-400 will capture butterflies flapping their wings in flight but that's why I bought the D800. Finally, when shooting flying birds, I have actually had better success with the D7000s than my D300 and am currently contemplating sending my D300 for a checkup because this is not suppose to be the case. I have read in other posts the same problem with D300s.</p>
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<blockquote>

<p>I'm not making claims, I'm looking at the tech specs Shun, the D4\D800 series AF are rated at a full stop brighter than the D3 series and the D7000. To say the D7000 is in the same league as the D4\D800 is like saying the 300mm F/4 is in the same league for low light shooting as the 300mm F/2.8.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Skyler, first of all, nobody has ever said on this thread that the D7000's AF "is in the same league" as the D4/D800. All I have been saying all along is that the difference is not very big.</p>

<p>If Nikon's spec says the D800 can AF at one stop darker, but when my indoor shooting condition does not reach that level of darkness, both the D800 and D7000 would do fine.</p>

<p>And Michael Dougherty's comment also confirms my experience:</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Finally, when shooting flying birds, I have actually had better success with the D7000s than my D300 and am currently contemplating sending my D300 for a checkup because this is not suppose to be the case. I have read in other posts the same problem with D300s.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Since the difference is small, it is not surprising that the D7000 may occasionally do better. It does not necessarily imply that something is wrong wiht that D300.</p>

<p>In my trip to the Galapagos Islands last year, my D7000 was my main camera for that wildlife trip. The D300 was the backup camera and I used the D700 for the occasional landscape photography. There was no D800 back then. I captured a lot of birds in flight on that trip and the D7000 worked just fine. I posted my Lightroom camera/lens statistics to this thread a couple of months back: <a href="../travel-photography-forum/00aGpD">http://www.photo.net/travel-photography-forum/00aGpD</a></p>

 

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<p>Shun I don't think I'll ever understand where you are coming from. Someday I would like to sit down in person and show you the difference between my D7000 and D800 and be able to test out your D7000 so for once we could actually compare apples to apples and not have all this here's a photo there's a photo here's my conclusions there's your conclusions stuff.</p>

<p>To the OP, I think its real, the D7000 can produce inconsistent and inaccurate AF, but mostly with certain lenses or under certain conditions, I also feel the AF is much more sensitive; it can easily be damaged or knocked out of alignment. I'm pretty hard on my cameras, and I just don't think the D7000's AF is up to par, rugged wise or consistency under a variety of situations, but that's for how I shoot.<br>

<br />That all being said, if you don't see a problem then there isn't one. My advice would be to take good care of the camera and don't knock it around too much, and if you do have troubles don't send it into Nikon, send it to the place Michael talked about, sounds like they serve you better than Nikon.</p>

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<blockquote>

<p>I took them to Nikon Torrance and had them repaired.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I believe the place Michael talks about is the Nikon Los Angeles office on Apollo Street in El Segundo, just a few blocks from the LAX Airport. I have been there a few times, usually a couple of hours before I board a flight leaving Los Angeles.</p>

<p>Their office used to be in Torrance but they moved to the current El Segundo address seven years back. It happens that I was sending a defective SB-800 flash back to them for warranty repair. I had no idea that they were moving and sent to the old Torrence address. FedEx generated an "address exception" and charged me $10 to forward it to the new address: <a href="00CuyP">http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00CuyP</a></p>

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<p>Is D7000 really that bad?</p>

<p>The image below was shot with my D7000 mounted with a Nikon 70-300mm f4-5.6 VR at 300mm, which is the soft end of this slow lens. The aperture was wide open, f5.6. The Alala, (Hawaiian crow), was in a big cage fronted with Plexiglas, (dirty, I might add). The day was overcast and raining. Focus was on the bird's head which has almost no contrast. Still the majority of my images were in focus from this session. So, under some of the worst possible conditions, the D7000 AF came through.</p>

<p>No, the D7000 really isn't that bad.</p><div>00aUOi-473323584.thumb.jpg.dfe40dd1495ea81776b47e7eb4011d22.jpg</div>

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<p>Lol, Robert, you haven't been reading my posts very well. The D7000 works fantastic with long lenses stopped down or already slow. While your 300mm maybe wide open at F/5.6, that's pretty slow, and depth of field is manageable. Focus doesn't have to be so precise. My 300mm is an F/2.8, and 90% of the time, I'm shooting at F/2.8. The depth of field is so paper thin at F/2.8 it is much, much easier for focus to miss, and I find it to often be the case with my D7000 & Long, fast glass combinations. Obviously this is not the case with all users, as this forum clearly demonstrates, but I for one feel my D7000 and long, fast glass combinations (especially the 300mm F/2.8, 85mm F/1.4G & even really the 24mm F/1.4G) are living proof that the D7000's AF is not up to professional par, and definitely a big step down from the D3\D4 series cameras. Not that the D7000 refuses to focus with the lenses, or that's its close, but I'm a stickler for 100% sharpness and not every other shot, 9 out of 10 shots. The D7000 just doesn't do that for me. With the 300mm F/2.8, I usually get every other, maybe every 3rd shot in focus, this is unacceptable from my point of view. I do not feel my technique is to blame, since using the same technique I get accurate focus 9 out of 10, if not 10 out of 10 times with my D800 and D3s. I do acknowledge that there is a very a good chance there is something wrong with my body, but its been this way since day one, its been repaired more than once and I just don't feel this is acceptable. Of course I'm very hard on my equipment, and I need a pro body, and now I finally have one that shoots good video (if it had not been for the D7000's amazing video mode, I never would have bought one in the first place).</p>
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