Gear advice sought for piano recital

[mark_pierlot]

<p>My four-year old daughter is giving her first piano recital this Saturday night, and since I've never shot such an event, I'm seeking advice about lenses and lighting.</p>

<p>It will take place in a recital hall, the dimensions and lighting of which I'm not certain. My daughter's piece comes early in the program, but nevertheless I will have some time to check the exposure conditions beforehand. I assume that I'll be able to sit relatively close, but again, I'm not sure about this.</p>

<p>I'll be using my 5DII, and my first inclination was to use my flash. But then I thought that with the high ISO capability of the camera, flash may not be necessary or desirable (or even permitted).</p>

<p>As for a lens, I want to take a fast prime such as my 85/1.2 L II or 135/2. (I think my 50/1.4 and 35/1.4 L would be too short, and my 70-200/4 L IS too slow). I'm inclined towards the 85/1.2, but am concerned about it's focusing speed. Since it's 50mm shorter than the 135/2, it'll allow me to shoot at lower shutter speeds, and it does of course have a wider maximum aperture. But, depending on my position relative to my daughter's, it might not give me quite enough reach.</p>

<p>Any advice in these matters would be greatly appreciated.</p>

[phule]

<p>[[but am concerned about it's focusing speed.]]</p>

<p>Is your daughter a very dynamic player? Does she move and jump around while playing? Is she likely to move so quickly that you won't be able to focus on her?</p>

<p>(These are rhetorical questions, Mark.)</p>

<p>Take a single photo and then sit down and listen to her play. Afterwards, stage it so you can shoot 'till your heart's content.</p>

 

[john_macpherson]

<p>You dont want to use flash (distracts player), you dont want too much click click click (distracts everyone) and you dont want to change lenses too much (it'll distract you).<br>

If it was me......well I'd use the 5D2's fantastic low-light video function, set it up ahead of time as close to her as you can get with the ideal lens for the distance, set it running leave it alone until the clip limit is reached and trigger again etc until the end, and enjoy the wonders of your daughter's performance live and relive it again and again in HD later.</p>

 

[sarah_fox]

<p>Have you ever performed in a recital? As a child? My advice is NOT to photograph any of the children while they're playing. Do posed shots after the recital. One snap of the shutter, flash or no, is enough to trip up your young daughter and render her utterly embarrassed in front of a small sea of judjment. Very simply, don't create any distractions for the children. This is one of those moments in which it's best to set down the camera and enjoy the moment. :-)</p>

[zml]

<p>C'mon, it is a piano recital, not Mick Jagger jumping around. Pianos don't move so focus speed is not that important, just prefocus (as an aside, yeah, the EF 85/1.2 is not a focusing speed demon but given enough light it will focus faster than many a zoom...)<br>

OTOH 85 mm may be not long enough and/or there might be not enough light, although the later is not really a big concern because I can easily get 1/125s @ f/2.8 in many classical concert venues @ ISO 800-1600.</p>

[craig_meddaugh]

<p>I'm with Sarah on this one. Enjoy the recital and leave the camera at home. If you still feel pictures are a must, stage them before or afterwards. She'll be under enough pressure without having dad moving around trying to get the perfect shot. </p>

[jeff_higdon]

<p>Take it from someone who has filmed and photographed lots of recitals and other indoor performances by children (not always mine) - take your whole bag of lenses with you and, before the show starts, see what works. While most of the comments above warn you against disturbing your child, the other children and the audience (and all of these comments are wise, for sure), I am guessing you have already formed that judgment and have decided to join the legion of the other parents (probably 50% of those attending) who have also chosen to film or photograph their children.</p>

<p>If you choose filming (and I guess we are talking about a 2 minute to 5 minute clip here, right?), you can always pull decent (not magazine cover) quality stills from the video footage. Even though the 70-200 f/4 is the slowest lens you have mentioned, I will bet that will work just fine. Be sure to custom your white balance before you begin filming. Do you have an external zoom microphone - that would be nice but not necessary. If you do film, manually check your sound levels and set them based on the performances before your child's. If a tripod is too imposing, bring a monopod. Sit in the back with your monopod and the 70-200 f/4 - but, if you are too far back, you will wish you had a good zoom mic like the Sennheiser MKE 400.</p>

<p>If you must take photos - and, at your child's age, I'll bet plenty people will take photos -</p>

<p>Your distance from the piano will have a bunch to do with determining what lens to use. I think you will feel comfortable with an ISO of up to 3200 - so any of the lenses will maybe be fast enough - even the f/4 with its IS - and your child will not be moving around much anyway. (But I'd probably try to position myself relative to the piano so that my 135/2 would be the best choice). Consider setting for live view and that will keep the clicking of the shutter to a minimum. As stated above, try to take a bare minimum of shots. Do not use the flash unless everyone else does. Of course, you will shoot in RAW, so, you need not worry much about the WB. I agree with the comment above that filming the recital would be more memorable. If you are really intense and the footage is great, consider posting it unlisted on YouTube to show to anyone who wanted to go to the recital but could not. Show it again to your daughter at her wedding reception...</p>

 

[sarah_fox]

<p>Strangely enough, we had cameras even back in the 1960's when I was a small child performing in piano recitals, and my mom was the very stereotype of a camera bug. Did she (or any of the other parents) pull out her Leica IIIf and pop off a bulb in the middle of any of my pieces? Thankfully, no. She knew I was already a bundle of nerves as it was, and she didn't want to do anything to compromise my brilliant performance of "Whirly Spook" (the composition I chose for my debut). Sometimes I think parents these days take too many photos, and I pity the kids.</p>

<p>The video idea sounds like a good one, though.</p>

[daverhaas]

<p>Video the live performance and stage all the photos you want after the performance. </p>

<p>I'm a dad to 3 pianists and the first thing that their teacher told me 10 years ago was that if I ever wanted to not get invited to future recitals, just take a photo during their playing. </p>

<p>I've been to dozens of recitals and it is the same every time - some parent, meaning well, snaps a photo of their child playing and it throws the child off their game. </p>

<p>Video yes, still photos No. Pose those after the show and you'll all be happier. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[jeff_higdon]

<p>David - it's a given that one does not take photos, videos, or eat crackers during a piano recital without getting permission first and most won't - or shouldn't - even with permission. Since the poster took the time to ask our advice re the equipment, I am more than certain he will have equally good sense in checking with the organizers of the event for protocol. I am sure that's already done.</p>

<p>Sarah - loved your note. Of course, one of my favorite photos - which I can no longer locate - is a shot of me on a stage in 1962 (I was about 5 years old) with the family lime green Kodak (a square box - looked like a jack in the box) dangling from my hand on its strap. It's funny that we, as photographers, can actually look back and say how glad we are, decades later, that our parents refrained from taking a photograph of an event we remember so fondly! That's not a criticism - I do the same!</p>

[Marcus Ian]

<p>While I certainly won't comment on the advisability of taking pictures in the first places(your choice of course), I would probably go w/ the 135 over the 85. A 4yr old is a small target at even a moderate distance, and the point is to get imagery of <em>her</em>, not the piano, nor the hall. I suspect that you may even find the 135 a little short in some respects. Personally I'd probably go w/ the 70-200 to allow some flexibility, given you'll not be able to move around too much and that you may not have much of a choice in position, but gaaah f4 is sooooo slow!</p>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>Thanks for your many, varied, and insightful responses, everyone.</p>

<p>I think I'll go with Jeff, Michael, and Marcus's advice that I use my 135/2 instead of my 85/1.2. The former performs well wide open, and f/2 should allow me to use a suffcient shutter speed to freeze my daughter's motion (and my camera shake!), particularly if I bump the ISO.</p>

<p>As for video, it would be a good idea if I'd ever used that feature on my 5DII, but I daresay I haven't, despite the fact that I've had the body since December 2008. And I don't think it's a good idea to start learning to shoot video under the circumstances. It's probably safer to stick to stills.</p>

[g dan mitchell]

<p>As a musician and a photographer, and a photographer who photographs musicians...</p>

<p>... let me recommend that you consider making a photo of your daughter before or after the performance if you can get a few minutes on the stage. This is likely to produce better results on a number of counts:</p>

<ol>

<li>The click/whir/slap of a DSLR camera <em>during</em> a performance can be a distraction - and you certainly don't want to distract your daughter while she concentrates on her performance.</li>

<li>Speaking as photographer, musician, and parent... I think you'll get more pleasure if you can focus on your daughter's <em>performance</em> - which is, after all the point - rather than on the photography. ("Daddy, what did you think of my playing?" "Uh, sorry, dear, but I was too busy making photographs to hear it...")</li>

<li>Photographically speaking, your compositional options are likely to be quite limited during the performance. You'll be shooting from her side if you are lucky, and probably from some distance.</li>

<li>By photographing before or after (and "after" is probably better) then event, you can not only work closer in, and make more photographs, but you might even be able to judiciously apply fill flash and so forth.</li>

</ol>

<p>Good luck to your daughter! :-)</p>

<p>Dan</p>

 

[daverhaas]

<p>@<a href="../photodb/user?user_id=3834881">Jeff Higdon</a> - </p>

<p>Based on the OP's response - I'm not certain that he's done that or planned on doing it. </p>

<p>After all this is his first recital - and as I pointed out - many parents view them as photo ops not recitals. </p>

<p>If it were me and I had permission to shoot during the recital - I'd vote for the 70-200 - even at F4 - it will be fine. </p>

<p>Dave</p>

 

[John Crowe]

<p>I would take the 85 and 135 and choose once you're there. Then I would use manual focus and pre-focus on the kids before her and try some shots to make sure you have the focus. I would not use flash. Doing the test images will allow you to chose the right aperture, shutter speed, and ISO. No one but the few around you are going to hear any clicking. </p>

<p>I have had my 5D II for almost six months. I shot my first video 4 weeks ago and was quite surprised by the exceptional quality with indoor soccer with my 300/4 L despite being limited to manual focus only. However I have stopped making videos for the time being until I figure out a way to convert the files or to edit/view the original .mov files. Canon, probably smartly, has chosen an Apple format for videos and my 5 year old PC laptop is not up to the challenge. This may or may not be a concern with you moving forward with video but be sure to check it out. </p>

[g dan mitchell]

<blockquote>

<p>"After all this is his first recital - and as I pointed out - many parents view them as photo ops not recitals."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>If so, again speaking as a musician, parent, and photographer... they are completely missing the point. :-)</p>

<p>Dan</p>

[scott_ferris]

I use a monopod at things like this, it can be used very discretely while seated and not interfere with anybody. It makes

for much sharper marginal shutter speed images too.

[john_macpherson]

<blockquote>

<p>John Crowe<br>

However I have stopped making videos for the time being until I figure out a way to convert the files or to edit/view the original .mov files. Canon, probably smartly, has chosen an Apple format for videos and my 5 year old PC laptop is not up to the challenge. This may or may not be a concern with you moving forward with video but be sure to check it out.</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>Check out <a href="http://www.squared5.com/">Mpeg Streamclip</a>, completely free, and fantastic. View, convert and generally mess around with your video files to your heart's content.</p>

[arie_vandervelden1]

<p>Let's be realistic. A recital performed by 4-year-olds is bound to be pretty chaotic. A few photos snapped from the sidelines won't ruin the performance.</p>

<p>My suggestion - read the situation, snap a photo or two at the start and the end, and sit and enjoy the rest.</p>

[mark_pierlot]

<p>It turned out that the lighting at the recital was atrociously bad. Despite the fact that it was quite a lovely room, it was illuminated only by ceiling fixtures and there was no special lighting for the performer/piano. Also, virtually all the parents were taking either stills or videos, though understandably flash was not permitted except during the group "photo ops" at the conclusion of the program.</p>

<p>So I'm glad I decided at the last minute to take my 85/1.2, since I ended up shooting at f/1.2 most of the time. I didn't want to push the ISO beyond 1600, and even then several of the shots have excessive noise. But I did manage to get some keepers.</p>

<p>Thanks again to all those who offered advice. For the next recital, I think I'll follow Scott's advice and take my monopod. It would definitely have increased my keeper rate this time.</p>

[jack_nordine]

<p>There's been some "interesting" comments so far. I think all you have to do is follow common sense. As far as the comment about the possibility of not freezing the action cause your daughter may be jumping around, this isn't Jerry Lee Lewis, just a little child. It should be easy to choose several moments where there is little movement. On the comment that you could possibly be too busy taking pictures to enjoy or even remember your daughter's performance, if you can walk and chew gum at the same time, I don't think this will be an issue. On the idea that photographing your daughter could make her nervous or disrupt her performance, this is something to consider. If you use a long lens and shoot at a distance, your daughter will be unaware of your presence. The 70-200mm zoom with IS (and a higher ISO) should do fine. Try to take photos while she is playing, not during silent moments. The sound from the instrument should drown out shutter noise. And do not use flash as that certainly could prove to be disturbing. Good luck.</p>